I am inclined to agree with you! Thank you for your comments!
I do indeed suppose! This insight is brilliant!
Thanks Again!
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The Problem of Hell
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
I am inclined to agree with you! Thank you for your comments!
I do indeed suppose! This insight is brilliant!
Thanks Again!
Perhaps you are right! Or perhaps the Bible teaches both that He is and is not omnibenevolent to all. There seems to be a measure of confusion on this topic. Perhaps point number one is incorrect?
Thank you for the link!
Perhaps if we were to drill a shaft straight down through the earth's crust and we lowered a microphone down we could hear the screams of all the people and prove that hell really exists. What do you think?
Just kidding!
Please Clarify!
Time pertains to the physical world. In the non-physical spiritual world there is no time. The abscence of time in the spiritual world is what is referred to as eternity. Eternity is indivisible (one moment) and without limit (not to be confused with forever).
Heaven and Hell is actually the exact same "place." It will be perceived as good or bad depending on the individual. You must also go through Hell to get to Heaven.
Heaven and Hell is actually the exact same "place." It will be perceived as good or bad depending on the individual. You must also go through Hell to get to Heaven.
then it raises the question (not just with you but also with teh high school drop out) why you don't care about the processes for acquiring evidence
can you give an example of a credible claim to knowledge that doesn't involve applying a process to uncover it?
there are also heaps of references in scriptures about how god is transcendental, thus empiricism is not determined as the best method for verifying theistic claims
actually they are like the physicist - they make claims about an electron and also claims about how one can come to the platform of perceiving the electron, but such claims are flatly refused by persons who have a bad attitude, like the high school drop out
even the vedas advocate that material life (not just the lower hellish regions) is populated by nitya (eternally) baddha (conditioned souls) - in other words the time duration of material existence (hell included) is eternal - one can stay there as long as one wants (or as long as one is not sufficiently intelligent to see the value of getting out of it) - theoretically one could spend an eternity there - practically though, we don't
The special qualities of the hellish planets is that a little bit of time there passes incredibly slowly, just like the special quality of the uppers regions of material existence is that time passes very quickly (much like having your hand on a hotplate for 20 seconds feels like an eternity and a two week holiday in the Caribbean seems to pass quicker than an eye blink)
Ok, now you lost me. Are you saying that one should believe scripture as truth? Or are you saying that one can, by the right method, verify the truth of scripture for oneself?
Both options are valid, but they both amount to the same result - like for instance if your mother tells you fire is hot or if you decide to touch fire, the result in knowledge is the same - of course having the intelligence to understand scripture is certainly unique and requires cultivation, so generally the life of the average theist is made up of a mixture of both processes until they come to the perfectional platform
Sounds good so far!
Yes, it has!
Billions have never heard “the truth” about Jesus and are condemned anyway. I think Paul addresses this.
People are never allowed to turn from their “love of evil”, once they are in hell, so this does not affect them at all. All Christians still do love evil so none must be forgiven. Supposedly the only way to avoid this is to die. There are none righteous. Not one!
You are claiming that we have freewill when the scriptures you provided indicate that we do not! It says, “vessels of wrath prepared for destruction” and “vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory”. Again, millions have never heard “the truth” about Jesus and are condemned anyway, that is why there is still such a need to evangelize, remember?
I would prefer that we were at least afforded the same courtesy that was given to the devil and all of the angels. In the Bible, Satan made his decision with direct experience and full knowledge of the existence and character of God and so did all of the angels that fell with him. They all started from a position of good and made a freewill choice of evil. Perhaps under these circumstances, their condemnation really is just.
But we are exactly the opposite of this! We are all designed to sin by our very nature, at the core of our being, from the very first day we are born. And we are supposed to be able to choose good, after being created evil, with an evil and fallen mind that is supposed to be incapable of any good. We were not created, as truly neutral beings, were we? Why could we not have been created good instead of evil and with direct contact with God so we could all make a true freewill decision to simply remain good or defect to the dark side like the angels? Any ideas?
And, actually, yes I think I would prefer to be a zombie in Heaven as opposed to having freewill and being in eternal torment in Hell. Thanks!
All Christians love evil, and they especially love it that an innocent person was tortured and killed for all of their evil deeds, instead of them. In fact they love this evil the most of all.
Then why evangelize? Wake Up! Many are completely ignorant of the Bible. Millions have never read it. Millions more have never even heard of it. Why? Because He has definitely not made Himself known to them.
Under this approach anything can be accepted as “the truth”, no matter how evil.
I agree that nothing here proves or disproves the existence of God. It reveals my hatred for evil, but thanks anyway.
Good Point! Why then is there so much arrogance and pride in the Christian community? Any ideas? Perhaps pride is a universal human problem.
I have no problem with this. I would expect this to be the case. I even desire it to be so! I would love to sit at the feet of God and learn from him all day long. That would be heaven to me! But, according to you, I suppose I will never get the chance.
I have never seen anyone cut his or her own nose off on purpose. Have you?
These words are true and wise. It is too bad that so many Christians have such a huge problem in this area. I have to look no further than my own mother for an all too real example of this.
Then there are some who are thrown into the lake of fire for rejecting what they have never even had any opportunity to accept, see, hear, or be taught simply because of where they were born on this planet.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Thank you for your comments!
Take Care!
Anything religious, where 'knowledge' is invented out of nothing. Like when the animals went on board two by two (lol).
Well that just about sums it up doesn't it? Sort of like when the Pope claimed around 1,000 ad that Mary bodily ascented up to heaven upon death despite the fact no scripture made any such claim. This is shamelessly invented out of nothing and is now an established tradition in catholocism. And so the pointless bandwagon of invented tradition rolls onwards...
It's a bad attitude to flatly refuse that which has evidence. It's also a bad attitude to claim something exists without evidence... this is why you have so many religions and cults which only process is brainwashing the superstitious.
"The pursuit of knowledge, unless sanctified by a holy mission, is a pagan act and therefore vile" - St Bernard of Clairvaux, (the most influential christian of his time).
Christians have followed this example ever since - caring not for knowledge, (because it's vile), but for make-believe and fantasy.
It's tragic.
Well Peter addressed it:
1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
Its a pity you being well read in the Bible where never allowed to see it and understand it's full implications. Maybe if you where more meek and asked for guidance instead of being rebellious and proud you might have more truth revealed to you.
True. But as long as they are given A chance then Justice and mercy are covered.
All Christians acknowledge their evil deeds and thoughts as Evil. And acknowledge their unworthiness to obtain eternity with God. You deliver a false allegation against followers of the Messiah Jesus.
You cannot understand the scriptures because your set on rebellion against them. The clay exists before The potter decides to prepare them into eternal vessels of mercy or eternal vessels of wrath. We evangelise to bring the good news to those in bondage and ignorance. The good news frees us to have a life in peace and assurance. But it also offers an opportunity for some to reject the truth and thereby condemn themselves to be used as vassals of wrath in this world.
Just as every human being who has rejected the Messiah Jesus condemnation is just.
We obtained the knowledge of Both Good and Evil and we have the free will to love one and hate the other. We decide from our own free will what we will love and what will distain.
Adam and eve decided they wanted to be Gods just like the God of Abraham. They decided to take satans bait. They had contact with God they knew what He said but choose to disbelieve Him and believe satan. But God had a plan to offer reconciliation and healing to humanity but again it is up to the individual to accept of reject His offer again. People still disbelieve the Word of God.
We will not be Zombies in heaven, But we will have the wisdom required to desire and perform what is good.
I do not love the fact that Jesus had to die for my salvation. I do not rejoice in the pain and suffering of the Messiah Jesus. But i am eternally grateful for the what Jesus went through for me. You are very wrong to state that we love the fact that Jesus went through pain and death. When a new baby is born the parents and friends are filled with joy there joy is not joy at the pain of child birth the mother went through to bring the baby into the world. They joy is that they baby is born and a new little one is with us.
Isaiah 5
20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!
Whatever pride that there be God knows what is within the hearts of people. But people often misinterpet suprime confidance in God as pride in self. I am absolutly cobfident in the truth of God and the Messiah Jesus. If thast comes across as self pride then i can do little about that. When someone believes in and stands up without compromise for their God it can be misinterpreted as pride in oneself rather than surpeme confidence in God.
But only a God who conformed to your sence of what is right... Right. The only God that you would want to sit at the feet of is a God in your own image. As soon as any God taught you something against your ideas of what a God should teach you would spit in His face and turn your back and walk out.
Who knows what you will accept at the moment of your death? I don't.
Are you simply opposing what i say out of a spirit of opposition for opposition sake?
Who cares about anyone else and their relationship with God?? We are not talking about the faults of others or the state of their relationship with God. Why bring examples of other people up? Your mothers eternal destination is between her and God. Whatever that may be should not come into your relationship with God.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
no thank you.
Kenny
therefore making things up that are not found in scripture is also recommended
its also a bad attitude to deny a claim and flatly refuse the process advocated to verify the claim
given that you advocate knowledge can be determined without a process, this doesn't help you any
therefore making things up that are not found in scripture is also recommended
its also a bad attitude to deny a claim and flatly refuse the process advocated to verify the claim
Any empiracle process which reveals evidence for a claim is the ONLY way to determine wether something exists or not. There is NO other way. Religion and scripture has no credible process either way since these are the same people who say that the animals went on board two by two.
You're just full of shit mate. The only process involved in the existence of hell is delusion. Hell exists as a means of control for people to follow the rules of x religion. Simple as that. Any intelligent creatures on other planets will start off society with invented superstitions like hell as a means for society to follow accepted morals and religions. That is why hell exists.
Adstar,
Perhaps we can come to some agreement on the Quran instead of the Bible.
Now, I am guessing that you have rejected the Quran as being the “Word of God”. If this is indeed so, and I fully expect that it is, upon what basis have you done so? What is it about the Quran that would ever make you think that it was not the “Word of God”? Or conversely, what would it take to convince you that it was?
Was it your own pride that made this decision for you, or was it something else? In your case, it could not be your own pride, because you apparently do not have any, so what brought you to this conclusion? Why would you ever think that the Quran is not the very "Word of God", if indeed you do think that?
Regards!
Perhaps we can come to some agreement on the Quran instead of the Bible.
Now, I am guessing that you have rejected the Quran as being the “Word of God”. If this is indeed so, and I fully expect that it is, upon what basis have you done so? What is it about the Quran that would ever make you think that it was not the “Word of God”? Or conversely, what would it take to convince you that it was?
Was it your own pride that made this decision for you, or was it something else? In your case, it could not be your own pride, because you apparently do not have any, so what brought you to this conclusion? Why would you ever think that the Quran is not the very "Word of God", if indeed you do think that?
Regards!
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He was born into that religious society that tought him the bible. had he been born in M.E. say SaudiArabia, he be here telling us the bible is full of shit, and that Quaran is the very word of god! see, it's all a matter of perspective, the enviorenmental influence of were one lives, and the primier religion of said region!