The nature of God

And this:

Numbers 17:10
Now those who died in the plague were fourteen thousand seven hundred, besides those who died in the Korah incident.

God just loves those plagues doesnt he? I guess thats why they call that chapter Numbers.
 
Well check this shit out!:

Hosea 1:2
The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
 
I didnt know the bible could be that sleazy Xev. What do you have to say about these quotes Tony1?

Im going to go, this erotic story in the bible called Job is getting really really hot.
 
More from the Bible! God throws a wobbly and goes mental!

Ezekiel 13:18
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
13:19
And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that
should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
13:20
Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt
the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
13:21
Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your
hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
 
*Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
Okay let me rephrase my question: If God loves me so much then why is he going to turn me into ashes for all eternity? That's sadistic if you ask me. *

He'd be doing you a favor.
Imagine being as pissed off as you are, forever.

*Originally posted by Xev
No. I'm NOT imagining God.*

You ARE imagining that you'd be immune to suicide as a psychologist, or psychiatrist, tho.

*Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
What do you have to say about these quotes Tony1?*

Pay attention.
 
Tony1 you think im mad? Im not mad, why would you think that? Im not even all the way atheist, Im agnostic.

P.S. I do pay attention. Explain Job to me... very weird part of the bible if you ask me.
 
Job had his own ideas about who God was.
It turns out he was wrong.
However, he changed his mind, and ended up much better off.
 
Tony:
You ARE imagining that you'd be immune to suicide as a psychologist, or psychiatrist, tho.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not immune to suicide. I AM immune to demonic posession as a cause of my suicide. :p

Counseler:

THe bible should of been written by Edgar Allen Poe....
Click to expand...

I'm thinking a joint project between H.P Lovecraft and the Marquis de Sade.......and a big pile of hallucinogens.....

Im not even all the way atheist, Im agnostic.
Click to expand...

Dude! Didn't the milkshakes convince you?

C'mon, we have MILKSHAKES. What more could you want?

P.S. I do pay attention. Explain Job to me... very weird part of the bible if you ask me.
Click to expand...

A story about the value of submission to G-d. What specifically is weird?
 
Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
Explain Job to me... very weird part of the bible if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Read Job a few times, its genre is Wisdom Literature; about man's true relationship with God. It is a voice against Deuteronomy. Also, it is a conglomeration of different author's work. It is hard to argue against it, Chp 28 has no business being in the poem. The mid-chapters about Elihu, him speaking, etc. are interpolations in the Job story, Elihu isn't mentioned in the prologue or the epilogue. You could tell that Job was probably heavily edited throughout history.

Follow the link for a little more information.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11305
 
*Originally posted by Xev
No, I'm not immune to suicide. I AM immune to demonic posession as a cause of my suicide.*

How did you get to be the only person out of 6 billion plus to be in such a favored state?
Keep in mind that I'm not trying to talk you into suicide.

If God doesn't own you, satan does, so do you, like, wear garlic around your neck, or something?

.
More on Job...
Most people overlook the fact that he ended up twice as well off as before the story started.
 
Originally posted by tony1

If God doesn't own you, satan does, so do you, like, wear garlic around your neck, or something?
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Too funny. :D
 
I'm thinking a joint project between H.P Lovecraft and the Marquis de Sade.......and a big pile of hallucinogens.....
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO:D

If God doesn't own you, satan does, so do you, like, wear garlic around your neck, or something?
Click to expand...

My question is if G-D controls everything then wouldnt he control satan?
 
God's power lies not in control, but in knowledge. God doesn't control Satan, but He knows what Satan will do... that is far more useful. People will still be tempted, and God will still be accused (Satan="the Accuser"), but while God has already won the battle between good and evil, we still have to.
 
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Re: Just a little clarification

Originally posted by Jenyar
Since no one can know everything about you, does that make any knowledge of you hypothetical? And for that matter, how well do you know yourself?

That's not what I was saying now, was it? I was pointing out that I do not need to believe in something in order to think about it. And I'm a bit more accessible and direct in my response to questioning than God shows himself to be. Mostly, I find it amusing how much people claim to know about God who is supposedly infinite... they seem to be quite sure of themselves.

~Raithere
 
Tony:
How did you get to be the only person out of 6 billion plus to be in such a favored state?
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm hardly immune to suicide. But I don't think I'll have demons trying to talk me into it.

If God doesn't own you, satan does, so do you, like, wear garlic around your neck, or something?
Click to expand...

"Ni Dieu, ni maitre"

I have, Tony, neither God nor master. Niether "owns" me. I only surrender dominion when I fucking well feel like it.
 
I agree - people only believe in God when the "why should you" becomes compelling enough. You can arrive at that conclusion from different sides (or never arrive at it). I was addressing the notion that you need to know everything before you can believe: you only need to know what's necessary, the rest is a journey into knowledge. Oh, and I also have a problem who think their knowledge of God is more complete than anybody elses - in my opinion, the more you know about God the more you are compelled to share it (not 'wield' it or boast about it). Otherwise there would be no need for churches or bible-study.

1 Corinthians 6:12
"Everything is permissible for me"– but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"– but I will not be mastered by anything.

2 Peter 2:19
They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity – for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.

To be able to say you are not a slave to anything, you will have to prove that you aren't addicted to anything, controlled by anything, or able to make any decision with self-control and restraint. Get thee to a nunnery... :) God doesn't hammer on having freed his people from slavery in Egypt for no reason. We don't belong to ourselves anymore.
 
To be able to say you are not a slave to anything, you will have to prove that you aren't addicted to anything, controlled by anything, or able to make any decision with self-control and restraint.
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1: I'm physiologically addicted to caffine. I can go cold turkey any time, if I wish to test my Will.

2: The only things that control me - my need for adequete nutrition and warmth, are MINE. No human or human institution controls me unless I surrender control to them.

3: Fuck self control. Fuck restraint. My Will is strong enough to unleash what I am.

The above is, of course, fairly an idealization of what I am. I am controlled by someone - and the extent to which I've surrendered control willingly is unknown to me.

However, to call me a slave to anything is - ludicrous. I belong to myself because I can break the hold of anything that does enslave me.

I am not free. I will be someday or I will die in the process.

And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?
 
Originally posted by Xev
3: Fuck self control. Fuck restraint. My Will is strong enough to unleash what I am.

Self-control is the root of all strength. Self-control is your will. Other than that I agree with you. :)

However, to call me a slave to anything is - ludicrous. I belong to myself because I can break the hold of anything that does enslave me.

I am not free. I will be someday or I will die in the process.

Submission of will is one of the vilest declarations ever made.

Never give up. Never surrender. - Galaxy Quest

I once read a short story in a magazine that I have never been able to find again and I don't recall the title or author but I think it was Omni Magazine sometime in the 80s (If anyone knows this please do tell me.): It was about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They had eaten the apple and God was looking for them but instead of hiding they faced him and admitted what they had done. At which point God delcares them his *true* children.

~Raithere
 
Xev: I won't argue, because you are right, but only if you're right about there being no need for salvation.

You are your own slave, because you are ruled by your own will. You have submitted yourself to yourself, so to speak.

"I belong to myself because I can break the hold of anything that does enslave me. "- Xev

You can't break free of yourself. Can you do something that you won't do? Not even under hypnosis. It could be a constant struggle to free yourself until you die. What would be the last thing that you can give up under severe torture or force? Your life.

Some serial killers only kill because they can, and they aren't bound to any will, not even their own. Can anybody justify that kind of freedom?

God doesn't ask submission to spoil your freedom, He asks that you acknowledge that you belong to Him and not to yourself, and He is the only one who can ensure complete freedom - even from death.
 
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