The Muslim Black Box: Kaaba
- Thread starter Vega
- Start date
This makes absolutley no sense.Only if you believe it.
Lets look at the logic of such a statement: Suppose that I believe that the Earth is flat. My opinion is that a spherical Earth does not exist.
My opinion may be that a spherical Earth can not exist.
OR
My opinion may be that a spherical Earth can exist (it's existence is possible) but I maintain that a spherical earth does not exist.
We both agree that my beleif in either a spherical Earth or a flat Earth has no bearing on whether a spherical Earth or a flat Earth really exists.
So with this now cleared up I am asking:
Can the possibility exist that Bahá'u'lláh was a Prophet?
Thanks
Michael
Maybe you should take a page out of BR's book and make them BIG RED LETTERS!!!
Anyway, like I said, the possibility can exist only if you believe it can. Faith is a matter of belief, not evidence.
I didn't use big red size 7 letters. I used sized 3 small black ones
And I showed you that such rational is illogical. The possibility of the Earth being round can exist even if you do not believe that the possibility can exist of the Earth being round.
Certainly not only because you believe such possibility exists.
Why the red-herring? Did I ask for evidence? No. Did I ask you to take something on faith? No.
I asked a question: Can the possibility exist that Bahá'u'lláh was a Prophet?
Michael
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I didn't use big red size 7 letters. I used sized 3 small black ones
And I showed you that such rational is illogical. The possibility of the Earth being round can exist even if you do not believe that the possibility can exist of the Earth being round.
Certainly not only because you believe such possibility exists.
Why the red-herring? Did I ask for evidence? No. Did I ask you to take something on faith? No.
I asked a question: Can the possibility exist that Bahá'u'lláh was a Prophet?
Michael
Now you're just being ornery.
I think Bahaullah is a religious teacher; but since Islam is the parent religion of Bahai faith, he cannot be a prophet.
I see. That may be true for your belief but that isn't how the Baha'i see Baha'ullah. They see him as a Prophet, actually more than a mere Prophet. But anyway, that wasn't that hardNow you're just being ornery.
I think Bahaullah is a religious teacher; but since Islam is the parent religion of Bahai faith, he cannot be a prophet.
or was it....???
OK, with that behind us, do you want to clarify your position regarding the question: Does the possibility exist that 5 Gods exist?
That is 5 separate Gods.
Of course to say yes to this question assumes you are stating that Islamic teachings of the One God may be wrong. Before, you said yes, you then qualified it as something possible, but something that you did not think was the case. However, now it appears you want to rescind that statement? Which is fine.
So, to clarify: Does the possibility exist that 5 Gods exist?
Also, when you said Islam is "inclusive" what did you mean?
Lastly, why do you suppose Baha'i' are persecuted by some governments in the ME and not by others? For example, Baha'i' have been killed in Iran and officially discriminated against in Egypt but are welcomed in Israel?
Why do you suppose that is the case?
"Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, especially Iran, where over 200 believers were executed between 1978 and 1998. The marginalization of the Iranian Bahá'ís by current governments is rooted in historical effects by Shi`a clergy to persecute the religious minority. When the Báb started attracting a large following the clergy hoped to stop the movement from spreading by stating that its followers were enemies of God, and these led to mob attacks and public executions. Starting in the twentieth century, in addition to repression that impacted individual Bahá'ís, centrally-directed campaigns that targeted the entire Bahá'í community and institutions were initiated. In one case in Yazd in 1903 more than 100 Bahá'ís were killed. Later on Bahá'í schools, such as the Tarbiyat boys' and girl's schools in Tehran, were closed in the 1930s and '40s, Bahá'í marriages were not recognized and Bahá'í literature was censored.
Since the Islamic Revolution of 1979, Iranian Bahá'ís have regularly had their homes ransacked or been banned from attending university or holding government jobs, and several hundred have received prison sentences for their religious beliefs, most recently for participating in study circles. Bahá'í cemeteries have been desecrated and property seized and occasionally demolished, including the House of Mírzá Buzurg, Bahá'u'lláh's father. The House of the Báb in Shiraz has been destroyed twice, and is one of three sites to which Bahá'ís perform pilgrimage.
Even more recently the situation of Bahá'ís has worsened; the United Nations Commission on Human Rights revealed an October 2005 confidential letter from Command Headquarters of the Armed Forces of Iran to identify Bahá'ís and to monitor their activities and in November 2005 the state-run and influential Kayhan newspaper, whose managing editor is appointed by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, ran nearly three dozen articles defaming the Bahá'í Faith. Due to these actions, the Special Rapporteur of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights stated on March 20, 2006 that she "also expresses concern that the information gained as a result of such monitoring will be used as a basis for the increased persecution of, and discrimination against, members of the Bahá'í faith, in violation of international standards. ... The Special Rapporteur is concerned that this latest development indicates that the situation with regard to religious minorities in Iran is, in fact, deteriorating."
The Bahá'í in Egypt also face persecution; on December 16, 2006, the Supreme Administrative Council of Egypt ruled the government may not recognize the Bahá'í Faith in official identification numbers. Consequently, Egyptian Bahá'ís are unable to obtain government documents, including ID cards, birth, death, marriage or divorce certificates, or passports, all of which require a person's religion to be listed. They also cannot be employed, educated, treated in hospitals or vote, among other things. The Egyptian Initiative for Private Rights stated that the press release issued by the Chief Judge of the Supreme Court did not respond to any of the evidence or arguments presented by the EIPR in the case, and that the release only discussed the tenets and beliefs of the Bahá'í Faith, which should have not have affected the court's decision.
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I'm not Baha'i' but I went to school with a girl who was Baha'i. She was emphatic that the teachings of Mohammad corrupted, that the Qur'an was corrupted and that Bahá'u'lláh was more than a mere teacher, more than a mere Prophet - Bahá'u'lláh was an Adam.
Anyway, this isn't what I asked and is irrelevemnt to my question.
I asked: Does the possibility exist that Bahá'u'lláh was a Prophet?
You say NO, the possibility does not exist. I accept that as you answer to that question. Now I am just curious what do you suppose that Baha'i' are persecuted by some governments in the ME and not by others? This is open ended, I am asking for your opinion.
As to the question: Does the possibility exist that 5 Gods exist? Before you said YES, it is possible, now you have revised your answer to say NO, it is impossible that 5 Gods exist. I accept that as your answer.
NOTE:
"I already said that since God is a formless universal consciousness, assigning numbers is meaningless." To another person, perhaps an Atheists, a formless universal consciousness is as meaningless as a round square, that most certainly doesn't preclude one the ability to recognize and discuss the concept.
Just something to think about.
NOTE:
"I already said that since God is a formless universal consciousness, assigning numbers is meaningless." To another person, perhaps an Atheists, a formless universal consciousness is as meaningless as a round square, that most certainly doesn't preclude one the ability to recognize and discuss the concept.
Just something to think about.
Probably because of things like your Bahai friend said. I've started reading stuff written by Bahaullah on Bahai awareness sites and it seems like the Bahai know about as much about their religion as most Muslims do.
Its not a new religion. According to the Quran, there have always been and will always be revelations among people, from the time of Adam till the end of the human race as we know it. Messengers, prophets and religious leaders merely remind us from time to time the importance of faith in keeping society functional.
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About when did Adam live Sam?
A long long time ago...
as most Muslims know about Islam?
Kind of make one wonder why bother with religion at all huh? I mean, as you said, most people don’t know dic about it anyway. They just know that when they die they get to go to a paradise of sorts and hey sounds good.
I didn't say it was a new religion. I asked: Does the possibility exist that Bahá'u'lláh was a Prophet? You said NO.
That question is answered unless you are revising your answer. Are you?
IceAgeCivilizations, sense you are here, could you do me the favor of answer these questions:
1) Does the possibility exist that Jesus was not the Messiah but was just an ordinary man?
2) Does the possibility exist that there is no God?
3) Does the possibility exist that 5 Gods exist?
4) Does the possibility exist that the Shinto Gods of Japan are real?
5) Does the possibility exist that Jesus was an allegory and never really existed?
Thanks,
Michael
1) Does the possibility exist that Jesus was not the Messiah but was just an ordinary man?
2) Does the possibility exist that there is no God?
3) Does the possibility exist that 5 Gods exist?
4) Does the possibility exist that the Shinto Gods of Japan are real?
5) Does the possibility exist that Jesus was an allegory and never really existed?
Thanks,
Michael
Ooo I see. I thought you were speaking about the Baha'i faith; the two are so closely related I got confused.Huh? You asked why Islam is an inclusive religion, thats what I'm answering.
I still don't understand.
How would the God's Last Prophet and Messenger Bahá'u'lláh fit into this "inclusive" context?
How does polytheism fit into this "inclusive" context?
Michael
Bahaullah is a religious teacher.
Polytheism is just worshipping God in his aspects rather than as an entity.