The Laws of the "Universe"

LIGHTBEING,

Crucifixions might have been somewhat common, however, resurrections were not. Try not to confuse the two.
 
LIGHTBEING,

***Man merely witnessed a crucifiction, which was common in that day, and exagerated the event into what they wanted to believe, the Resurrection.***

A crucifixion exaggerated into a resurrection? I'd say that's a bit confused since they are two separate and distinct events.

Have you ever heard of Dr. Frank Morrison?

"He was a lawyer who had been brought up in a rationalistic environment, had come to the opinion that the resurrection was nothing but a fairy-tale happy ending which spoiled the matchless story of Jesus.

He felt that he owed it to himself and others to write a book that would present the truth about Jesus and dispel the mythical story of the resurrection.

Upon studying the facts, however, he, too, came to a different conclusion. The sheer weight of the evidence compelled him to conclude that Jesus actually did rise from the dead. Morrison wrote his book--but not the one he had planned."

The title of his book is, Who Moved the Stone?
 
I know the distinction between the two. But they are relative to one another and Biblically, they go hand in hand when speaking of the Christ Event.



A crucifixion exaggerated into a resurrection? I'd say that's a bit confused since they are two separate and distinct events.

I'm not confused at all. The Human mind and imagination is well capable of an exaggerate like this.

I'll check out his Book....my mind is always open

:D
 
LIGHTBEING,

Here is something to ponder...

Despite the fact that Jesus told the disciples that he would rise on the third day after his death, it must not have sunk in because the disciples seemed rather unprepared when they actually encountered the risen Christ.

When Mary Magdalene and a number of others told the disciples that they had seen the risen Christ, the disciples did not believe them.

When the risen Jesus actually visited eleven of the disciples, at first, they thought they were seeing a ghost. Jesus then had the disciples touch him. He also ate food with them.

Jesus needed to convince the disciples that he had risen because they were having a hard time believing what they saw.

Remember doubting Thomas? He probably didn't get that name because he was the only doubter among the disciples. More likely, he got that name because he was the only disciple who wasn't there the first time the risen Jesus appeared to the group. In actuality, all the disciples were doubters.

It is important, I think, to note that the disciples were not expecting Jesus to resurrect. As a matter of fact, they could not believe it at first even though they saw Jesus in the flesh with their own eyes. They came to believe it only after touching and interacting with the risen Christ. This is important because it renders untenable the theory that the Resurrection is only an exaggeration of the Crucifixion somehow born of an expecting imagination.
 
Ironically, I don't believe the Bible to be much of an Authority on the subject. The Bible has just been touched up to many times for me to consider. Sorry, I just can't allow myself to trust it.

Also, you must consider that wanting to believe something and didn't believe something are different. Afterall, according to the Bible, these were the same people that called him "God" and he told them that he was not.
 
"Father, why have you forsaken me"

Why do you suggest he said this? If he was "God" those words would have never come out of his mouth.
 
A few points...

Someone said the word "god" was originally used to explain the unexplainable. This is not even slightly accurate. It is an Old English word used to label a type of very powerful spirit. Not any single entity, not any unexplainable phenomena, just a type of spirit.

Someone said crucifictions were common but resurrections weren't. Also untrue. Several people in Norse, Middle Eastern, Greek, Egyptian, even old Australian mythologies were resurrected or had their souls transformed in some way upon death. Hell, even the Christian resurrection myth was ripped out of Mithraism in the first few centuries ad. (You do know that Christianity simply borrowed stories from other religions, right?)
 
Jesus and God...

LIGHTBEING,

"Father, why have you forsaken me"

Why do you suggest he said this? If he was "God" those words would have never come out of his mouth.

The Bible explains that God lives within us and everywhere, around us. The difference is that those who perceive Him, those who feel Him, can use Faith to do miracles. Is the intimate Love relationship with God, expressed in Nature and within ourselves that give us power to do miracles.
P.S.: In this point of view, God is most likely called Holy Spirit.

Jesus had this perception. It's why He said in John 10:30 :
"30 I and the Father are one."

He said that because He could feel God. He had and intimate Love relationship with Him. God was within Him and around Him.

When He went to the cross, He lost His perception of God because there He was "sinful". He died for our sins, and He experienced our sins in the cross. It's why He said...

Matthew 27:46 :
"46 About three o'clock, Jesus shouted, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

At this time, He was experiencing how it is to be a sinful man, without any hope nor any Faith. There, He was powerless.

Pscicological Explanation:
The submission of the ego (Jesus, normal human being in the cross) towards the Real-Self, the Inner-Child (God) is the goal to of every human being. The real crucifixion happened at the Gethsemane Garden, when He prayed three times for God because He was fearing the crucifixion.

All those things proves that Jesus was a "normal" man, but with an incredible perception of reality. But, yes, I agree with LIGHTBEING that most Christians worships Jesus or thinks that Jesus is God. Wrong intepretation...

Blessings,
Nelson
 
i belive that there is no beter expersion of my belif than the profession of faith of the holy roman cathlic church (if anyone cares i will write it down) it explaines perfectly the difference between Jesus, God and the Holy spirit and God's church
 
Nelson,

I still find it hard to believe that you say you are a Christian but do not believe Jesus to be God. It's amazing!!!!

I'm trying to prove to the Christians, that believe Jesus to be God, with their own scripture, that this quote "Father, why have you forsaken me" is evidence enough that Jesus was not. Christians believe that the Crucifiction and Resurrection was some kind of a Divine Plan created by the Trinity. This quote obviously refutes that. Seems like Jesus had a different plan in mind.

And as far as Jesus dying for are Sins...well that is just another subject all together. Sin is a man made concept. I mean who defines Sin anyway? And don't say God because "He" would be the biggest Sinner of all.
 
The full glory of the one God is expressed through the Trinity. In this case, Jesus is one aspect of God. That is, Jesus is God's divine nature in human form. Jesus is God's word made flesh. Jesus is God's way of fully communicating with man.

God is Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit in one.
 
If I were somehow able to transform my words here into human form then my word, which is actually a part of me, would be human in nature and would need to eat, drink, sleep, etc... My word would also feel the pain of a crucifixion.
 
Im sick of everyone debating wether chistans WORSHIP Jesus so here i will write out the profession of faith. This is what we belive, plane and simple (bear with me cause its a bit long). It is for the Roman Cathlic church so others may be different.


We belive in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We belive in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
By the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary and was
made man.
For sake he was curcified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures:
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We belive in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and
glorifided.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We belive in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge on baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen


As you can see yes we worship Jesus and the Holy spirit but NOT as gods more as the three faces of the one being

Body, mind and soul. Sort of

Hope that helps:D
 
Asguard,

***Body, mind and soul.***

Exactly.

All that is seen and unseen... Matter, intelligence and spirit...

Thanks.
 
Originally posted by blonde_cupid
The full glory of the one God is expressed through the Trinity. In this case, Jesus is one aspect of God. That is, Jesus is God's divine nature in human form. Jesus is God's word made flesh. Jesus is God's way of fully communicating with man.

God is Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit in one.

And WHO exactly stated this. Not Yeshua, not god. The concept of trinity was made up by not-so-early christians to explain why they say they beleive in one god instead of three. Please point me to a historical record tht confirms tht trinity was first mentioned from 0 a.d. till 100 a.d. And about holy spirit?
Why do all beleive so much in some white dove. It appeared only once in bible where jesus was (don't know the word for english) standing in the river and was blessed. Maybe at tht moment just a bird flew by and all the people shouted HOLY SPIRIT- you actually buy this?

lightbeing said
The Human mind and imagination is well capable of an exaggerate like this
and I will continue on this - human mind is capable of everything and immigination has no boundries at all. (tht's not bad at all, but in this particular case.........................:) )
Cheers!
 
Avatar,

Why do all beleive so much in some white dove. It appeared only once in bible where jesus was (don't know the word for english) standing in the river and was blessed. Maybe at tht moment just a bird flew by and all the people shouted HOLY SPIRIT- you actually buy this

The Holy Spirit appears simbolically only once in the Bible. But it appears lots of times in other parts as the actual Holy Spirit. Whenever someone speak in tongues, for example, the Holy Spirit is there. If you can't interpret the Bible, don't even talk about it.
The white dove simbolizes the Holy Spirit, that is peace. Why? Because when you have Faith, when you believe in what you hope before it happens, you are in peace, and the Holy Spirit make it happen.

About the Holy Spirit, everything has already been said.

Blessings,
Nelson
 
Jesus, per Matthew 12:28:

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Jesus, per Matthew 12:31-32:

Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
 
Whenever someone speak in tongues, for example, the Holy Spirit is there
Exactly what I meant. It is thought of and created by humans (mind). How do you know tht through smone was talkin'a holy spirit? maybe the holy spirit is talking right now through me and you can in no damn way prove tht I'm wrong at this.
Holy spirit is a product of human immagination. Because when smone had smthing good or valuable to say or was a christian preacher it was comortable to say tht the message was inspired by the holy spirit thus making the message status quo.
 
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