The Ineffability of God's Will

[Lori_7]

So it is everyone else and not you...

Righteo then..

it's hard for me to believe that you're this retarded. are you in some kind of facility or something? do you have someone feeding you and directing you to the bathroom? how in the fuck can you respond to what you just quoted with this?! you are either a troll, or you are hands down the dumbest bitch i've ever come across.

MY WHOLE FUCKING POINT IS, AND HAS BEEN THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD, THAT IT'S ME. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT YOU DUMB FUCK. CAN'T YOU READ? CAN'T YOU COMPREHEND THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE? WTF?!

i have said repeatedly now that it is ALL OF US. first fucking post i said it's all of us. and for the retarded people like yourself, that means me too. it also means you bells, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY YOU'RE SO PISSED OFF. nobody's going to blame you. nothing wrong with you is there princess?

you make me sick.

What are you doing about "it" Lori? Praying for our collective death so that the world is better just for you? I mean God allowed this girl to be raped and immolated just so that you could confirm the evils of lust and porn.

i'm changing the world bells. what the fuck are you doing except denying your part, making excuses and passing the buck? pathetic.

You revel in suffering of others because it confirms your belief of God and what you think is coming and you keep praying for more. You are almost gleeful in this thread, because you feel that God has vindicated your beliefs by letting his girl suffer.

i abhor the suffering of others which is why i'm doing whatever it takes to stop it, which first requires identifying the problem. YOU WON'T EVEN DO THAT. the way it works is that you have to admit to being part of the problem before you can ever be part of the solution, and you and many others just don't have what it takes to do that. because you're all liars.

We keep coming back to this statement in response to gmilam:



And this was your response, or part thereof:



It was cold, heartless, selfish and nauseating.

Here we have a child, raped, strangled and then set on fire and left to die. That child suffered horrific injuries. And you consider it almost a blessing because it reaffirmed your beliefs in the evils of lust and porn.

For anyone to act as if they were somehow benefited by this child's attack, for anyone to carry on as if this was of some higher purpose and to claim it for themselves and praise it because it reaffirmed their beliefs in lust and porn. It was nauseating to read. This is the kind of crime that quite literally brings people to their knees and asks 'why?'. And yet you, you don't even show an ounce of compassion for this child. Your response is that 'well it showed you how porn and lust is evil and that God allowed her to be tortured and suffered so that you could prove the evilness of lust and porn.' And then, as if that wasn't enough, you stated you prayed for the destruction of all human beings so that the world could be better for you, the supposed chosen one. Is this what your God is to you? There to inflict suffering to make the world better for you and to prove you right?

for someone to blatently deny the cause of such things and LEARN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM IT is what's cold, heartless, selfish, and nauseating.

here's you paraphrased, "nope, nothing wrong with me. i'm not part of the problem. i'm such a dumb ass i don't know what makes people do these things, i don't know why people suffer, and i don't really give a flying fuck."

As a human being, as a woman and as a parent of two small children, I have to say that I think you are a disgusting and disturbing human being. You can call me a bitch, you can attempt to threaten me with whatever seems to be popping into your head, from my being removed as a moderator to my apparent death, it still does not change the fact that I think you are deeply disturbed and vile.

you can think whatever fantastic thing you want, and it's sad to know you're lying to your kids. good to know we'll soon have another couple of blind, deaf, and dumb motherfuckers just like you walking around in denial. terrific. because none of your dumb pathetic asses are doing a damn thing to help this particular victim, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next. and you can believe all the lies you want and tell yourself all about how everything's just fine and we're all just fine while the world's falling in on your head, but that isn't going to stop the world from falling in on your thick head.

 

[Tiassa]

Does God never learn?

what i would like to know, is how in the world you and others might think it cruel of me to recognize the possibility of, believe in, and pray for an existence without the suffering that you're apparently so horrified by here?

Well, let's look at two aspects of it.

• What I initially find cruel is the proposition that God would will a human being to endure such an ordeal in order that you could be reminded of what you already believe.

— That you celebrate and worship such a God includes you in that cruelty.​

• What then develops is that you would wish for the coming of this God.

— And we'll pass, for the moment, the question of your confidence in your own salvation.​

In the first, you're suggesting that God is something of an idiot. After all, as you explained, far too many people either cannot or will not understand.

True story: There is in history a fairly repugnant document called the Requerimiento. The Spaniards would recite it to the indigenous Americans they encountered. The Requerimiento essentially ordered the tribes to submit to Spaniard crown and religion, and threatened the destruction of villages, killing of men, and enslavement of women and children; it also asserted that this outcome would be entirely the fault of the tribes.

Now, as repugnant as that might sound, the Spaniards were initially confused when the tribes simply ignored them.

Somewhere in there, it occurred to somebody that they probably ought not read it in Latin, but figure the local language and express the terms as the tribes would understand. Naturally, the Spaniards were puzzled when the people became angry at being threatened.

The point here is that God, by your reasoning—and as I expressed to Signal—seems to be "preaching to the choir". As you said, "a lot of people either don't get it, or don't care". Okay, fine. But you do. So this horrible desecration of humanity reminds you of what you already believe, and it's a better reason for such an atrocity than none at all.

Rape and immolation of a fourteen year-old girl in order to reaffirm for someone thousands of miles away what they already believe is what I might call a grotesquely inefficient means of communication.

Indeed, you've actually made a cartoon make sense. At least I get that out of the situation. Still, though, I don't think it's worth the price. It would have been enough for me to simply laugh at the absurdity of it without ever having found an application.

As to the coming of this cruel and terrible God, as I've already noted, you might as well be hoping for the rise of Cthulhu.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

Mr. Fish, April 18, 2011​

 

[Lori_7]

Well, let's look at two aspects of it.

• What I initially find cruel is the proposition that God would will a human being to endure such an ordeal in order that you could be reminded of what you already believe.

— That you celebrate and worship such a God includes you in that cruelty.​

• What then develops is that you would wish for the coming of this God.

— And we'll pass, for the moment, the question of your confidence in your own salvation.​

In the first, you're suggesting that God is something of an idiot. After all, as you explained, far too many people either cannot or will not understand.

True story: There is in history a fairly repugnant document called the Requerimiento. The Spaniards would recite it to the indigenous Americans they encountered. The Requerimiento essentially ordered the tribes to submit to Spaniard crown and religion, and threatened the destruction of villages, killing of men, and enslavement of women and children; it also asserted that this outcome would be entirely the fault of the tribes.

Now, as repugnant as that might sound, the Spaniards were initially confused when the tribes simply ignored them.

Somewhere in there, it occurred to somebody that they probably ought not read it in Latin, but figure the local language and express the terms as the tribes would understand. Naturally, the Spaniards were puzzled when the people became angry at being threatened.

The point here is that God, by your reasoning—and as I expressed to Signal—seems to be "preaching to the choir". As you said, "a lot of people either don't get it, or don't care". Okay, fine. But you do. So this horrible desecration of humanity reminds you of what you already believe, and it's a better reason for such an atrocity than none at all.

Rape and immolation of a fourteen year-old girl in order to reaffirm for someone thousands of miles away what they already believe is what I might call a grotesquely inefficient means of communication.

Indeed, you've actually made a cartoon make sense. At least I get that out of the situation. Still, though, I don't think it's worth the price. It would have been enough for me to simply laugh at the absurdity of it without ever having found an application.

As to the coming of this cruel and terrible God, as I've already noted, you might as well be hoping for the rise of Cthulhu.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

Mr. Fish, April 18, 2011​

tiassa, are you under the impression that i came out of the womb knowing what i know (or as you put it "what i believe")? because i didn't. i actually had to live quite a while in this fucked up and painful world, and suffer quite a bit, and witness the suffering of others, before i did what it takes. that is, opened my eyes to what now seems obvious. and as the suffering continues perhaps god is waiting on the rest of you dumb fucks to open your eyes too?

how long do you think that might take?

 

[Tiassa]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

how long do you think that might take?

Given the cruelty of your God, I think the longer it takes, the better.

Besides, in the meantime, it means a whole lot more people are going to get hurt really, really badly, so you can feel even better about how right you think you are.

Does God know what is in your heart?

 

[Lori_7]

Given the cruelty of your God, I think the longer it takes, the better.

Besides, in the meantime, it means a whole lot more people are going to get hurt really, really badly, so you can feel even better about how right you think you are.

Does God know what is in your heart?

you mean how wrong i think i am don't you? ie. sinner. you know that thing that so many of you won't admit to? being wrong? i'm pretty sure that's why all of your panties are in a bunch isn't it?

and yes god is aware; he's the one that put it there.

 

[Tiassa]

(Insert title here)

you mean how wrong i think i am don't you?

Is that your latest tack? Okay, then.

and yes god is aware; he's the one that put it there.

And, yet, you're praying for judgment.

 

[Bells]

it's hard for me to believe that you're this retarded. are you in some kind of facility or something? do you have someone feeding you and directing you to the bathroom? how in the fuck can you respond to what you just quoted with this?! you are either a troll, or you are hands down the dumbest bitch i've ever come across.

I have to ask, is this a Christian trait of yours?

Tell me Lori, which demon leads you to speak like vicious person? Do you often make fun of people who are disabled? I am not disabled, but I very well could be. Tell me, how well does God judge someone who insults and abuses another because they believe that other is disabled?

MY WHOLE FUCKING POINT IS, AND HAS BEEN THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD, THAT IT'S ME. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT YOU DUMB FUCK. CAN'T YOU READ? CAN'T YOU COMPREHEND THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE? WTF?!

Oh I'm sorry. Here I thought the whole point of this thread was the rape and immolation of a child by a man who thought demons were directing him. But here you are saying it's all about you.

Ah yes, of course. Your selfishness leads you to believe that you are the centre of the universe. To the point that this girl's rape and immolation and ongoing pain and suffering happened to remind you that lust and porn is evil. I suppose that is how you view God. As your tool and if he has to make a child suffer pain and nearly die, then so be it, he will. Because it is all about YOU Lori.

i have said repeatedly now that it is ALL OF US. first fucking post i said it's all of us. and for the retarded people like yourself, that means me too. it also means you bells, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY YOU'RE SO PISSED OFF. nobody's going to blame you. nothing wrong with you is there princess?

You mean I am somehow inherently evil because I am not gleeful that God allowed this child to be raped, immolated and nearly die to remind me of something? Or is there something wrong with me that I don't make this about "me" and because I do not spend my time praying for the death of billions to make the world a better place for myself?

Maybe it is because I think you pretty much personify any definition of disgusting that may exist and I think you belong in a mental institution as I now firmly believe that you are mentally unstable and possibly could pose a threat to yourself and anyone in your vicinity?

you make me sick.

Oh, believe me when I use the very appropriate cliche of 'not as sick as you make me'. Never has that been more apt.

i'm changing the world bells. what the fuck are you doing except denying your part, making excuses and passing the buck? pathetic.

Indeed you are changing the world!

You are saying this kind of crime is acceptable and, in fact for you, desirable, because it serves your religious purpose. This is all about you remember?

i abhor the suffering of others which is why i'm doing whatever it takes to stop it, which first requires identifying the problem.

And this is what you are doing?

"better than for nothing huh?"​

See, that is what you said earlier. Because as you have said, it is all about you, remember? That God allowed this child to suffer so that you could be reminded of the evils of lust and porn.. In fact, you're sitting there praying for the death and suffering of billions so the world can be a better place for you.

You "abhor the suffering of others" huh? Weren't you the one hoping that I would suffer so that you could sing? Is this how you abhor? How much did you sing when you found out about this child's suffering Lori?

YOU WON'T EVEN DO THAT.

No. I won't pray to whatever God to bring about people's death and suffering so that you can sing Lori.

the way it works is that you have to admit to being part of the problem before you can ever be part of the solution, and you and many others just don't have what it takes to do that. because you're all liars.

Again, it's everyone else and not you.

for someone to blatently deny the cause of such things and LEARN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM IT is what's cold, heartless, selfish, and nauseating.

Did you expect me to praise all God and Jesus for this girl's suffering because it reminded me of the evil's of lust and porn?

I think all of us who have been reading your posts have learned one thing at the very least. That you are batshit insane and a selfish and disgusting human being.

here's you paraphrased, "nope, nothing wrong with me. i'm not part of the problem. i'm such a dumb ass i don't know what makes people do these things, i don't know why people suffer, and i don't really give a flying fuck."

Well he obviously did it because you needed to be reminded of the evils of lust and porn...

"better than for nothing huh?"​

Remember, this is all about you, Lori..

you can think whatever fantastic thing you want, and it's sad to know you're lying to your kids. good to know we'll soon have another couple of blind, deaf, and dumb motherfuckers just like you walking around in denial. terrific. because none of your dumb pathetic asses are doing a damn thing to help this particular victim, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next. and you can believe all the lies you want and tell yourself all about how everything's just fine and we're all just fine while the world's falling in on your head, but that isn't going to stop the world from falling in on your thick head.

Ah yes.. What are you doing to help?

Praying for everyone to die so the world can be a better place for you.

But do not worry about my children. They know that it is wrong to hope for or pray for the pain, suffering and deaths of others to serve their own self-righteous means. They don't have you for a mother. And you have no idea how happy that makes me... That at the very least, children will be spared your lunacy.

 

[Bowser]

This thread has degenerating into a clash of personalities...which is often the case where strong opinions interact.

 

[Lori_7]

This thread has degenerating into a clash of personalities...which is often the case where strong opinions interact.

I don't see strong opinions. I see a couple of lying trolls.

 

[parmalee]

MY WHOLE FUCKING POINT IS, AND HAS BEEN THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD, THAT IT'S ME. ...

i have said repeatedly now that it is ALL OF US. first fucking post i said it's all of us.

How exactly is this coherent?

 

[synthesizer-patel]

Wow...Lori, I'm the most guilt-ridden person I know, and even I think whacking off is normal and harmless.

In fact, I'm rather inclined to view it as like brushing my teeth-regular maintenance...Unless I'm depressed it sort of needs doing daily.

regular maintenance is an excellent description. Regular masturbation is one of the best ways to help prevent prostate cancer in later life.

My ex was a radiographer and was always very insistent on a daily routine - bless her!

 

[Lori_7]

regular maintenance is an excellent description. Regular masturbation is one of the best ways to help prevent prostate cancer in later life.

So does sex.

 

[Lori_7]

Is that your latest tack? Okay, then.

So now you're going to pretend that all along you had no idea that I was a Christian and you had no idea that the acknowledgement of oneself as a sinner is a foundation of Christianity?

From my first response I've reiterated that we're all guilty. We're all accountable and we all carry this burden. I was very clear.

I've also spoken of my own repentance. The definition of that word is to turn away from sin. Obviously implying that I have my own sin to turn from. I've also spoken of redemption. If I wasn't a sinner there would be no need for it.

You are being extremely dishonest.

Do you think for one second that anyone who reads this thread thinks you give a shit about this girl or what happened to her? You're not shedding any tears. You're not losing any sleep. You read that account and said, "ha! I can use this girl's tragedy to stick it to religious people because I don't like them.". How honorable.

Then you go on to propose that your admitted detachment, disassociation, and denial somehow elevates you to a higher moral ground. When I'm testifying to the fact that suffering such as this has changed my life. It's changed me, because I accept responsibility and I am accountable, and I recognize that what's wrong with the world is my problem, and that is how I change the world.

The only reason you've got an attitude and bells is projectile vomiting all over your thread like Linda Blair in the exorcist is because I dared to suggest that it's your problem too, and that you're responsible too, because you're a sinner too. And let's be clear that your proposed solution of denial and finger pointing never changed a goddamn thing.

And, yet, you're praying for judgment.

of course i am. judgement is the revelation of the truth. it figures you wouldn't want that.

 

[Lori_7]

How exactly is this coherent?

my apologies. it does help if you read it in context though, as a response to her lie, that i'm somehow suggesting i'm above it all. that's the exact opposite of what i've said in every post. i've said repeatedly that it's all of our fault. it's my fault, and it's her fault too. that accusation is why she's blatantly lying and throwing an insane fit.

 

[Bells]

The only reason you've got an attitude and bells is projectile vomiting all over your thread like Linda Blair in the exorcist is because I dared to suggest that it's your problem too, and that you're responsible too, because you're a sinner too. And let's be clear that your proposed solution of denial and finger pointing never changed a goddamn thing.

Oh no pet.

Had you said that it is our complacency and society's inability to weed out the religious crazies who go on to rape and immoate children and blame demons, then yes, I would agree with you. We are complacent in letting religious nutbags out on the loose where they do untold damage to society at large and worst of all, to the most vulnerable, like children.

However you came out and said that it was somehow our collective fault because we are lustfull individuals and we apparently love porn. You then went on and prattled about how you felt vindicated by this horrific crime because it showed you that God was somehow validating you and your beliefs about lust and pornography. You were very clear and many questioned you about this to make sure that that was what you were saying and you repeated it... You then ranted about how you were praying for our demise (ie death and suffering and you then advised me that I would see (and worded it as a threat) and prattled something about how my pain and suffering would make you sing.

Let me be clear Lori, my problem with you is that you are selfish, hateful, vindictive, self-righteous, and frankly, I consider you to be a danger to society. Anyone who claims to benefit from the pain and suffering of others, in fact, gleefully proclaims how this is the sort of crime is a benefit in that it was what was needed to reaffirm your beliefs about the evils of lust and pornography, that you pray about because you apparently want everyone who isn't just like you to die so the world can be a better place for yourself..

If ever there was the complete opposite of what is meant to be a Christian, you are it. You were clear in this thread. You are thankful because God allowed this girl to suffer so you could prove a point and feel vindicated. You could not even bring yourself to show any sympathy for this poor child and what she suffered. What you did instead was self serving and selfish...

To be frank, there are no words that I dare employ on this forum to describe you.

You can threaten me with death and suffering at the hands of your God as you pray for it as much as you want. It will not change how I view you.

I can only hope that those who are close to you, or those you have not chased away with your craziness, if they truly care for you, they will get you the help that you so desperately need.

 

[Lori_7]

You're a fucking troll bells. I wasn't thankful and I wasn't gleeful. I suggested that the only benefit of a tragedy like this or any suffering is if you learn something from it and it changes you, which it has me.

You on the other hand stick your nose up in the air and point a finger. Obviously no help is coming from you.

And you're damn right I'm praying for the apocalypse because I know damn well it's exactly what it will take to rid the world of ineffectual lying pieces of shit like yourself so that those of us who have learned something can start over and do it right. It's clearly the only thing that will abolish sin and the associated suffering. You have no interest in abolishing suffering. Denial and finger pointing hasn't been working how many 1000's of years? You're a fucking liar.

 

[Bells]

You're a fucking troll bells. I wasn't thankful and I wasn't gleeful. I suggested that the only benefit of a tragedy like this or any suffering is if you learn something from it and it changes you, which it has me.

You on the other hand stick your nose up in the air and point a finger. Obviously no help is coming from you.

And you're damn right I'm praying for the apocalypse because I know damn well it's exactly what it will take to rid the world of ineffectual lying pieces of shit like yourself so that those of us who have learned something can start over and do it right. It's clearly the only thing that will abolish sin and the associated suffering. You have no interest in abolishing suffering. Denial and finger pointing hasn't been working how many 1000's of years? You're a fucking liar.

What were your words?

"better than for nothing huh?"​

This is in response to a query, a checking if you will, of your statement that God allowed this to happen to this child so that you could reaffirm your beliefs about the evil's of lust and porn.

And then, you made sure we knew, that this was all about you..

And you have again admitted that you are praying for me to die. And I reiterate, how very Christian of you.

Tell me, do you pray that I will suffer? What did you say before? That my suffering and death will make you sing?

Is this what Jesus taught you? I don't seem to recall Sunday school encouraging us to pray for the pain, suffering and deaths of those we don't like so that the world would be a better place for us. Is this what your self titled church is about? Pain and destruction so that you can be happy?

After all, this is all about you, isn't it?

You need to get some help. Preferably psychiatric help. And I would recommend you get it sooner rather than later.

 

[Lori_7]

How many times are you going to quote the same thing bells? Keep in mind the rest of us aren't retarded like you.

There are plenty of people who learn from suffering and there are plenty of people who repent. You're just not one of them. We're not celebrating. We're not gleeful. We're accountable and we won't be satisfied until not one more tear is shed.

I don't pray for you at all bells. I don't give a shit which side you're on. Stop looking for a hand out and be accountable for yourself.

For all I care you're the scowling lump I step over on my way to victory.

 

[heart]

how am i accountable? i don't look at porn. i don't lust after people that's how. i don't support or entertain the evil that almost took that girl's life. and i wouldn't trust my daughter alone with a youth pastor either. i don't support organized religion. I KNOW BETTER.

I don't understand why you think lust (eg porn) is the reason that this happened to this girl? My watching porn at home has nothing to do with the horrible crime committed by some man, who I don't know.

I think you are confusing a sickness (this man's violent crime) for what something that you feel is immoral (porn). That would be like saying because someone is a homosexual that it makes them a pedophile. Uhhh no.

What caused this young girl's tragic death was a man who was very sick in the head. You may disagree with porn, but watching porn does not turn anyone into a sick individual such as this man. Not anymore than someone going to Outback turns them into an alligator tail.

and for all of those motherfuckers who want to argue with me about lust being ok, and pornography is ok, well fuck you, and may you rot in hell where you belong.

Did you seriously mean this? Every single person who watches porn should rot in Hell? Even me? Do you think I'm evil because I watch it every now and then in the privacy of my home with my partner?

what's wrong? exactly what the bible says is wrong, we're sinners. now go and argue with me about that. "porn's fine. lust is fine. there's nothing wrong with me." well i'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways, and i'm not blind.

That is your opinion (about porn) but that does not make it fact.

oh yes, here we go. if it's such an "exception to the rule" then would you care to explain why it happens so often? right, everybody's gotta mental illness. everybody's a schizophrenic. stop making excuses! evil causes suffering, period. just because you arbitrarily decide that certain sufferings are worse than others, doesn't mean it's so. you'd be surprised at what we've all gotten used to.

You don't believe in mental illness? So you are saying demons did it? Because I'm telling you that my watching porn from my house doesn't push a button causing people to run about and committing violent sick crimes such as this. That is simply not logical.

maybe if it were to happen to their own daughter they might think twice about picking up another porn mag, but that's a big maybe isn't it?

Me or anyone else who watches porn didn't cause this man to do what he did. No more than you watching an Elvis movie and getting turned on causes him to commit such a horrific crime. :shrug:

 

[Lori_7]

Heart,

I think blaming mental illness is just as much of a cop out as blaming demons.

And bottom line is that we all live in a world where shit like this and worse happens right under our noses all day every day, and there is absolutely no hope that humanity alone will ever do anything to stop it. Particularly when you're buying the same shit this guy is, and nobody is willing to admit that there's anything wrong with us.

You don't give a shit about the women in those porn movies. As a matter of fact I'd bet you wouldn't want anything to do with them on a real and personal level. They're just pieces of meat that you use for purposes of self gratification, which is the exact mentality of the pastor, he just took it to another level.