the illogical god

[ubermich]

to xev:

My knowledge of S and M is restricted to reading a few (okay, one) of de Sade's novels about four years back and a few paragraphs of an intro to human sexuality text.

im rather fond of de sade. camus dubbed him a metaphysical rebel, and its funny when you think about him that way. he commited deicide with god and turned around to deify human nature. totally irrational, but could swallow it with ease. thats what i love about him, i wish i could do that, even if it meant going crazy, killing all your servants, and spending the rest of your days in an insane asylum. like freddy. i guess theres just something poignant about metaphysical rebels and their dying amongst the dregs/loonies of society. humbling.

Alls I know is my dissection of me own twisted little desires.

*smiles* good. i respect you more than if you had just spouted it verbatim from an sandm encyclopedia.

So, ah, yeah I do know what you are talking about, but I don't know what you are talking about, but my propensity to dissect and anylize allows me to pontificate about subjects I've not experienced firsthand.

im not an sandm guru, just an enthusiast. its hard to find people who see sex this way, especially when you go to a catholic all-boys school.

I actually don't think I have the urge to, er, dominate my partner. Funniest thing.

*scratches head* what? are you serious? im sorry but i cant believe that. yes, ive figured it out. i know what this is. i think it comes down to a difference in terms on "domination." perhaps you define domination as physically agressive control. i define it as that and so much more, including mind games, etc. i believe every human, every woman therefore, has the desire to dominate. you cant be human if you dont. do you think your penchant for control is limited to knowledge only? i think not. it just manifests different sexually. between women and men, i mean. women dont dominate with physical aggression like men (and i know im stereotyping/expressing gender-roles here but work with this). for example, go watch some porn with your head on straight and your panties around your crotch. analyze it. watch the 20-minute long blow-job scene. see that? you think the man's controlling the woman even if hes grabbing her hair and shes sucking his dick like cums a hot commodity? absolutely not. watch her eyes. jenna jamesons good at this. all good porn stars are. they have that look and feel of control. sure, at the beginning the mans in control, but later, when shes on her knees, she starts calling the shots, licking where she wants to, sucking like she wants to, and the guy's powerless.

i dont buy it xev. youre less human, ill admit, but youre still flesh and blood. youll snatch power/control if given the chance. and youll do it like a woman because i believe women function differently from men.

Then again, you don't seem the political type. I am. Perhaps we're simply using different manifestations.

*slaps self* you telling me ive been jostling with a politician? oh great, a politician who rejects power. *laughs*

I do not know. If I may ask, you sound straight. Correct assumption?

yes. i know im attracted to women, i just dont know if im attracted to men. i dont think you can be as obsessed with power as i am and not admire the sex stereoptically in possession of it.

God fucking damn, you are some fragment of my subconscious. Yes, I am imagining you in order to have some sort of semi-Socratic dialog with myself...

thats the power of sciforums, xev. we're watching you. we tap into your hypocampus, like in contact, extract characteristics of yourself, embody them in another forum member, and set up conversations with you and that member. this way, we can get inside your brain and provide psychoanalytic therapy. this 'sciforums' is just a front for a large, experimental psychiatric firm based on the net. your mothers been worried about you, and are actually paying the bill for this (go ask her.) so ask me questions, and ill tell you the answers you want to hear.

A comparison between Whitewater and Monicagate is in order. Real estate fraud is illegal, but white-collar crime is not really frowned upon - so nobody really cared about Whitewater. Having interns give you head is perfectly legal, but it goes against societal standards and thus people focused on Monicagate.

monicagate? sorry. is that some kind of joke? i think monica was just the tip of the iceberg. clinton was hated by a lot of people, even the people back in arkansas for all the fraud he did. i just hated the guy. dont get me wrong, very keen on economic/foreign policy. but slimebucket. yeah thats a double-standard. but i dont care. i thought it was fun to watch him squirm on the podium from the comfort of my living room, bowl of popcorn in my lap.

 

[ubermich]

Point taken, but one need not watch - read Goodall. Chimps use sex as a means of expressing dominence. I suspect that humans have the exact same fucking urge but cover it up better.

so getting attacked by king kong? probably not a good idea i see. in real life he would have drenched you with gorilla cum.

He's always reminded me of a chimpanzee. I swear, if I ever met him, I would be sorely tempted to offer him a banana.

carson or george dubya?

Freddy would compare us to the barbarian who exerts control over others and the ascetic who exerts control over himself.

*smiles wryly* ah, that is the dilemma is it not?

As for leading skepticism, I do not agree. It seems an integral part of my nature. So I do not think I am led by it - I think it leads me and I lead it and - well, questioning is built deep into my psyche.

yes, youre right. i was making the problem more complicated than it needed to be. let me rephrase: you seem to enjoy the urge for questioning, i only oblige it because it will hurt if i dont.

It does bounce off of me to a great extent. I am not as easily harmed - and you know what? I envy you. I envy somone who can feel so deeply. I feel - oh I do feel pain - but I always bounce back. And my god, how this does scare me. It's not that I am emotionless. Far from it....

i said this to someone about two months ago. kind of funny to be on the other end of it now...again, this is absurd: im seeing myself in your words. i cant even laugh about it anymore.

And your method would work better. But - and I believe this is the most perverse thing I have ever said - I realize that your method would make me happy, yet I will not adopt it.

because you have standards? so do i xev. its a struggle between principle and desire, i feel. lose-lose situation.

And now it is time for me to say how much you underestimate me. I do not destroy actively, nor do I destroy my beloved - I destroy any chance he has of loving me. I drive them away. I know not if this hurts them - somehow I doubt that anyone could feel enough for me to be hurt by being driven away.....but I do know that it hurts me.

shit, perhaps our difference is semantical then. obviously, i dont really kill the people i love. i destroy their love for me, what their person is to me. i dont know if they feel hurt. i see that they push me away. i dont know if its out of disgust or hurt, all i know is it eats me up inside when im trying to fall asleep at night . . .

The odd thing is that I would like nothing more than for the beloved to love me, to reciprocate my emotions - yet I do always drive them away. And I do it almost subconsciously - I become needy, untrusting, untrustworthy. I destroy the very thing I want most.

*laughs* again, this is utterly absurd that were even discussing this. i feel EXACTLY the same way. no contention whatsoever. now i know youre lying to me when you say youre only fascinated by control. youre enthralled with it, rather, because you live it/(or without it.) my entire philosophy is an outgrowth of this needy/love relationship phenomenon. fucking people. they take off your hide, protective skin, and probe you with strange instruments while you stand helpless, only able to feel how they affect you. and that gnawing doubt inside of you: does this person care or are they just using me?

this is a very humorous example: remember in tommy boy when chris farley gets his ass kicked by david spade and they go into the kitchen shack for some post-brawl grub? farley mustve been on crack or something, but it was hilarious when he took that biscuit and started petting it, stroking it with utmost tenderness, then suddenly flipped into maniacal mode and tore it apart with his fat litttle fingers. fucking hilarious. yet when i sit back and think about it, thats what i do to people. my pet biscuits just get too big

God yes!! Only - perhaps this is only my conditioning speaking, although I doubt it for reasons that would likely bore you - my destruction is channeled.

goddamnit xev, your insightful comments are making it harder and harder to keep these posts short and sweet. again, i agree. my destruction is channeled thats what i believe separates me from utterly pathetic, abject fools beggin for a dime on the street for their next fix. i CONTROL my destruction. it does not CONTROL me. yes, i have enough selfrespect (or maybe its just displaced hate) to retain a feeling of superiority over my fellow man.

So, you are right ubermich, we should become utterly emotionless inhuman monstrosities.
(Do not mistake this for agreement, I shall tell you to love others tenderly if you do) But we were born to fuck and love.

thats the beauty of mans rationale, he has the ability (or at least he thinks he does) to "beat his own machine," and harness his beliefs/emotions/urges with logic. and he sticks to it, even when he knows its a lost cause. the anti-martyr i call it.

I just noticed your location. Dallas? Oh you poor son of a bitch. You are soooo out of place.

how do you think i derived such a dismal outlook on life? living the high life in LA? where do you live if i may ask?

 

[Xev]

ubermich:

im rather fond of de sade. camus dubbed him a metaphysical rebel, and its funny when you think about him that way. he commited deicide with god and turned around to deify human nature. totally irrational, but could swallow it with ease. thats what i love about him, i wish i could do that, even if it meant going crazy, killing all your servants, and spending the rest of your days in an insane asylum. like freddy. i guess theres just something poignant about metaphysical rebels and their dying amongst the dregs/loonies of society. humbling.

Damnit, what was it Freddy said about going willingly to the asylum?

*Pounds head on keyboard - work, brain, work!*

Meh, deicide is easy. Why in the fuck anyone would deify the nature of this miserable species is beyond me, though.

But he was a most singular and fascinating man. Another "great despiser", IMO.

Interesting though, I did not know that Camus talked about Sade. Odd, I am rather infatuated with Camus.

Have you read The Plauge?

Looking at Dr.Rieux is like looking inside my skull. I am Rieux. Or perhaps he is me. The coldness covering a passionate core, the scientific mind, the sense of struggling against stupidity, the anger slipping through an icy exterior....Rieux senses the purposelessness of his struggle against the plauge, yet he struggles anyway. He's so much like me it is uncanny.

The moment I read "The Myth of Sisyphus" I thought "Holy fuck, this is exactly the way things are, the way I am. This is what I have been trying to tell myself for years."

*smiles* good. i respect you more than if you had just spouted it verbatim from an sandm encyclopedia.

There are encyclopeadias?

*Grumbles "Damn my po-dunk town, damn it all to hell!"*

im not an sandm guru, just an enthusiast. its hard to find people who see sex this way, especially when you go to a catholic all-boys school.

Oh sweet Cthulhu. A Catholic school? And Dallas? You poor, poor man.

i dont buy it xev. youre less human, ill admit, but youre still flesh and blood. youll snatch power/ control if given the chance. and youll do it like a woman because i believe women function differently from men.

Agreed, we were working from different definitions.

To quote German pop songs (well why not?!):

Did you ever want to know what it takes to hold
A man you just have hooked?
Honey it's not in the way you dress, the way you talk
Or in the way you look
Things get wild in the night
Ain't no use to hold him tight
So buckle up and just enjoy the ride
'Cause baby don't you see
That sexuality
Is what you need to get him on his knees, ja
And if you like to be
His number one for real
You got to let him see your sexuality
Baby if you want for him to get you off
You got to show him how it's done
And you should give him something he can get off too
Or honey he'll be on the run

Oh yes, women are after control. Only we are oh so much more subtle and insidious about it.

This is, of course, part of what I am trying to renounce.

Oh, I never meant that I was not after power. I am. I am simply in the process of renouncing it.

*slaps self* you telling me ive been jostling with a politician? oh great, a politician who rejects power. *laughs*

Not quite. I'll possibly minor in philosophy and go into law.

Possibly.

I mean that sexually, I am perfectly happy to be without control - I even enjoy it. But the power that money and politics bring....ah, now that I do not want to be without. That fascinates me endlessly.

yes. i know im attracted to women, i just dont know if im attracted to men. i dont think you can be as obsessed with power as i am and not admire the sex stereoptically in possession of it.

Ah..makes sense. Sexual orientation is really a continuum, I think. For instance, oddly enough, all my sexual relationships are with women and all my emotional relationships are with men.

Go figure.

so ask me questions, and ill tell you the answers you want to hear.

Oh okay....could you please verify the Goldbach conjecture?

i thought it was fun to watch him squirm on the podium from the comfort of my living room, bowl of popcorn in my lap.

Hey hey, always fun to watch a lawyer squirm. Rather like nailing jello to a tree, but it is fun.

Well, it is fun depending on how you define "is" and "fun".

so getting attacked by king kong? probably not a good idea i see. in real life he would have drenched you with gorilla cum.

Thank you ever so much for the mental image.

carson or george dubya?

You....you called......

YOU CALLED HIM DUBYA! AFTER SEPTEMBER 11th!

(Xev, stop shouting)

Be still, my heart. Thank you. Thank you ever so much.

I meant Dubya.

*smiles wryly* ah, that is the dilemma is it not?

Damn yes. Self torture as a means of self control is Freddy's ideal.

Don't really agree. I mean, you're talking to a woman who will run three miles without stopping simply because it hurts, simply to endure pain for the sake of enduring pain, to see how much control she can exert over herself, how far she can push herself.... but I don't know if this makes me "higher" than the barbarian who causes others to suffer.

yes, youre right. i was making the problem more complicated than it needed to be. let me rephrase: you seem to enjoy the urge for questioning, i only oblige it because it will hurt if i dont.

I don't enjoy it. I simply cannot do otherwise, and am not sure if I want to.

Questioning is part of my nature.

i said this to someone about two months ago. kind of funny to be on the other end of it now...again, this is absurd: im seeing myself in your words. i cant even laugh about it anymore.

Okay, this is weird. I see myself in yours as well. We are very simular....and yet very different.

because you have standards? so do i xev. its a struggle between principle and desire, i feel. lose- lose situation.

Perhaps that's why.

Perhaps it's simply because I am a stubborn bitch who does not easily give up.

But ultimately, I have the feeling that your system would not work for me. It goes against some fundamental part of my nature.

shit, perhaps our difference is semantical then. obviously, i dont really kill the people i love. i destroy their love for me, what their person is to me. i dont know if they feel hurt. i see that they push me away. i dont know if its out of disgust or hurt, all i know is it eats me up inside when im trying to fall asleep at night . .

Jesus fuck, this is mildly disturbing.

Exactly what I do. Or what they do.....

You see, I become needy, craving constant reassurance.....it's utterly fucking pathetic and I realize this when I do it....and yet I do it anyway.

Obviously, they leave. They lose interest or become disgusted and leave.

Or I stay in my shell - fire and ice - I let ice predominate, and I don't let them know how much they mean to me. I drive them away.

When in fact I want the exact opposite. How odd.

*laughs* again, this is utterly absurd that were even discussing this. i feel EXACTLY the same way. no contention whatsoever. now i know youre lying to me when you say youre only fascinated by control. youre enthralled with it, rather, because you live it/(or without it.) my entire philosophy is an outgrowth of this needy/love relationship phenomenon.

*Laughs*
This is fucking bizzare.

Maybe I am. However, I am trying to renounce control, to renounce need.

fucking people. they take off your hide, protective skin, and probe you with strange instruments while you stand helpless, only able to feel how they affect you. and that gnawing doubt inside of you: does this person care or are they just using me?

*Laughs*

Oh, this is eerie. I was saying something almost exactly like that the other day.

I mean I am cold. Hard to get close to. Yet occasionally, somone manages to get inside the shell and poke at my tender little psyche.

I swear to fucking god, they do this just to confuse the hell out of me, then leave.

It's all a huge conspiricy against me!

goddamnit xev, your insightful comments are making it harder and harder to keep these posts short and sweet. again, i agree. my destruction is channeled thats what i believe separates me from utterly pathetic, abject fools beggin for a dime on the street for their next fix. i CONTROL my destruction. it does not CONTROL me. yes, i have enough selfrespect (or maybe its just displaced hate) to retain a feeling of superiority over my fellow man.

Hell yes! That's exactly it. I can channel my destruction and I can channel my destructiveness.

thats the beauty of mans rationale, he has the ability (or at least he thinks he does) to "beat his own machine," and harness his beliefs/emotions/urges with logic. and he sticks to it, even when he knows its a lost cause. the anti-martyr i call it.

The Absurd hero. Even if it's useless, even if it means nothing in the long run, he keeps trying.

how do you think i derived such a dismal outlook on life? living the high life in LA? where do you live if i may ask?

*Sniffles*

You deserve better than Texas.

Ann Arbor, Michigan. Little college town. Home of the University of Michigan.

Oh it's not bad, it's just....very insular, kinda boring. I mean, you cannot even buy decent porn here.

 

[GB-GIL Trans-global]

...I've noticed that nobody, most notably the theists at whom it was aimed, has replied to my post... (the one about shitting blood)

 

[Xev]

GB-Gil:

I find that expressions of pity are degrading, a rather low way of expressing power.

However, you have my sympathy. Or empathy. In any rate, not my pity but respect and empathy.

 

[GB-GIL Trans-global]

Originally posted by Xev
GB-Gil:

I find that expressions of pity are degrading, a rather low way of expressing power.

However, you have my sympathy. Or empathy. In any rate, not my pity but respect and empathy.

That post wasn't meant to get pity or respect, but rather to prove that God cannot be a loving god, as if he was I wouldn't be in the predicament that I am.

 

[ubermich]

to gb-gil:

...I've noticed that nobody, most notably the theists at whom it was aimed, has replied to my post... (the one about shitting blood)

what? i had quite the good time imagining you walking through the frontgates of heaven with a loaded uzi and a vendetta to level. im insulted you didnt find it. *storms out of room*

to xev:

Damnit, what was it Freddy said about going willingly to the asylum? *Pounds head on keyboard - work, brain, work!*

i really do not understand how you can maintain a database of memorable quotes . . . the brainpower needed for that escapes me . . .

Meh, deicide is easy. Why in the fuck anyone would deify the nature of this miserable species is beyond me, though.

camus reminds me of myself, actually. embracing your emotions is equivalent to embracing man's most base and unflattering characteristic. id call that deifying human nature. and i dont do it willingly, rather grudgingly, because its 'the [only] way out...' likewise, i dont believe de sade really wanted to deify man/nature's cycle of destruction. it was just an outgrowth of living in prison for a long, long time.

Have you read The Plauge?

nope. read the stranger and am reading the rebel now. but im itching to get at sartre's nausea after this . . .

There are encyclopeadias?

*laughs* i really have no clue. id imagine so, but ive never seen one. they have "big books" and "how to..." and "the big encyclopedia of ..." for everything now. maybe they carry them at Condom Sense. the only reason i believe they might is because i once wandered into a chatroom with a "gorean" theme. and apparently, the room was based on scifi/fantasy novels by some guy obsessed with SM, who wrote about fantastical societies in which men walked around on leashes following dominatrixes (dominatrices? ive never had the occassion to use THAT one in plural form ) like lapdogs/slaves. anyway, thats what i understand about it, before the webmaster kicked me out for not roleplaying and asking stupid questions. that really scared me. after that i wasnt sure SMists had standards. frightening how pathetic your life can become when you dont keep a close watch on it.

Oh yes, women are after control. Only we are oh so much more subtle and insidious about it.

yes, you are where do you think the archetypal femme fatale/temptress comes from?

This is, of course, part of what I am trying to renounce.
Oh, I never meant that I was not after power. I am. I am simply in the process of renouncing it.

*laughs* i used to try to do that. i realized i would never successfully retreat into myself and give the finger to the world. so i became what i hated most.

Ah..makes sense. Sexual orientation is really a continuum, I think. For instance, oddly enough, all my sexual relationships are with women and all my emotional relationships are with men.

??? you sound as if you are attracted to men. but whatever floats your boat. all my relationships, romantic/emotional whatever, are with women. women are just more honest than men. and strangely, the coolest women seem to be bisexual/lesbian. not kidding. i dunno, guess they realize that attraction is in the person not the sex. thats what ive come to believe.

Oh okay....could you please verify the Goldbach conjecture?

goldbach? abstract math? *shoots self* i like logic, but not what i consider to be trivial exercises of it.

YOU CALLED HIM DUBYA! AFTER SEPTEMBER 11th!

considering his late-start on the mid-east crisis, his obsession with "destroying iraq" while hes got the troops out in that part of the world (perhaps at the expense of alienating arabs), and his unscrupulous disregard for the environment, yes. i have issues with him, but hes still a good guy. very emotional on 9/11. took it personally. thats what we needed him to do. doesnt mean hes a god politician though.

Don't really agree. I mean, you're talking to a woman who will run three miles without stopping simply because it hurts, simply to endure pain for the sake of enduring pain, to see how much control she can exert over herself, how far she can push herself.... but I don't know if this makes me "higher" than the barbarian who causes others to suffer.

well said.

I don't enjoy it. I simply cannot do otherwise, and am not sure if I want to. Questioning is part of my nature.

*laughs.* okay, another 'difference' gone way of the trashbin, attributed to semantics/miscommunication.

Okay, this is weird. I see myself in yours as well. We are very simular....and yet very different.

i dont know anymore. oh, im sure were different, but not as different as i used to think. like i said, i believe were just fluctuating (albeit at different points and in opposite directions for some strange reasons, but nevertheless fluctuating) on this spectrum of control. were both looking at power and wondering: okay, so im fascinated by it. but what do i do with you? do i want you or do i hate you? am i going to embrace you and destroy others or reject you and destroy myself?

But ultimately, I have the feeling that your system would not work for me. It goes against some fundamental part of my nature.

ah, yes. the crux of the issue. that burning resolve inside of you to rebel against even this. but you see, my system proves youre exerting power. because youre harnessing your emotions, or using them to destroy others. in any case, we can see the resistance (from inside or from others) and the end result (you die or others die.) just a question of which path you want to take.

You see, I become needy, craving constant reassurance.....it's utterly fucking pathetic and I realize this when I do it....and yet I do it anyway. Obviously, they leave. They lose interest or become disgusted and leave. Or I stay in my shell - fire and ice - I let ice predominate, and I don't let them know how much they mean to me. I drive them away. When in fact I want the exact opposite. How odd.

*shakes head* were twins on this one, again. how ludicrous and creepy. i let my cold outer shell drive them away. i love that though: driving them away gives you the feel that youre in the drivers seat, and it hurts less sometimes when you push them away before they have a chance to really matter to you.

Ann Arbor, Michigan. Little college town. Home of the University of Michigan.

*laughs* better than dallas? how so?

 

[Xev]

ubermich:

i really do not understand how you can maintain a database of memorable quotes . . . the brainpower needed for that escapes me . . .

www.google.com helps. For instance, I was thinking about something Camus said -

"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me, and be my friend"

So I just typed in "Camus don't walk behind me" and bingo! Got the exact quote.

Oh, and my brain works in really weird ways - that has something to do with it.

camus reminds me of myself, actually. embracing your emotions is equivalent to embracing man's most base and unflattering characteristic. id call that deifying human nature. and i dont do it willingly, rather grudgingly, because its 'the [only] way out...' likewise, i dont believe de sade really wanted to deify man/nature's cycle of destruction. it was just an outgrowth of living in prison for a long, long time.

I see. I'm tending to agree with you on emotions.

That's it! I need a good biography of Sade!

It will at least keep people from bugging me with "so, what're you reading?"

nope. read the stranger and am reading the rebel now. but im itching to get at sartre's nausea after this . . .

Oh? I need to get at Sartre too. Almost finished with Freddy. And then you mentioned Foucault....

I think Sartre is next.

And Rand.

*laughs* i really have no clue. id imagine so, but ive never seen one. they have "big books" and "how to..." and "the big encyclopedia of ..." for everything now.

Hmmm.......

"SandM for Dummies"

i once wandered into a chatroom with a "gorean" theme. and apparently, the room was based on scifi/fantasy novels by some guy obsessed with SM, who wrote about fantastical societies in which men walked around on leashes following dominatrixes (dominatrices? ive never had the occassion to use THAT one in plural form ) like lapdogs/slaves.

Dominatrixii?

Has a nice ring.

anyway, thats what i understand about it, before the webmaster kicked me out for not roleplaying and asking stupid questions. that really scared me. after that i wasnt sure SMists had standards. frightening how pathetic your life can become when you dont keep a close watch on it.

I can't imagine that they do. You probably violated some weird rule of Netiquette. Or they are rather strict about their standard of Netiquette...I can imagine that they'd attract a lot of the "horny 13 year old boy" species of troll. What with COPA, one can never be too carefull.

yes, you are where do you think the archetypal femme fatale/temptress comes from?

Oh you have no idea. Poor men. You seem so easy to manipulate.

*laughs* i used to try to do that. i realized i would never successfully retreat into myself and give the finger to the world. so i became what i hated most

Yeah, you may be right. I doubt I can. But perhaps a very high level of egotism will help.

goldbach? abstract math? *shoots self* i like logic, but not what i consider to be trivial exercises of it.

Ah, but I do. I enjoy math....it is very pure. Very beautiful in its purity. Science is not like this - science is chaotic and confusing - beautiful in its own way, but math makes sense most of the time.

That is, if I were intelligent enough to understand the very advanced stuff.

??? you sound as if you are attracted to men. but whatever floats your boat.

Correct. I'm bi.

Jesus fuck, I cannot pick an operating system - why should I pick a sexual orientation?

considering his late-start on the mid-east crisis, his obsession with "destroying iraq" while hes got the troops out in that part of the world (perhaps at the expense of alienating arabs), and his unscrupulous disregard for the environment, yes. i have issues with him, but hes still a good guy. very emotional on 9/11. took it personally. thats what we needed him to do. doesnt mean hes a god politician though.

You sound exactly like me. I dislike him very much, but I admire his handling of 9/11.

i dont know anymore. oh, im sure were different, but not as different as i used to think. like i said, i believe were just fluctuating (albeit at different points and in opposite directions for some strange reasons, but nevertheless fluctuating) on this spectrum of control.

I think a lot of our differences are due to the fact that
A: You're male. I'm female. That does affect things.
B: Semantics and miscommunication.

were both looking at power and wondering: okay, so im fascinated by it. but what do i do with you? do i want you or do i hate you? am i going to embrace you and destroy others or reject you and destroy myself?

Yes, I think that's exactly the case.

But why do you associate power so strongly with destruction? Freddy and I think that it can also be supremely creative.

Creation, in and of itself, is power.

I dunno....I just don't see why power would have to be destructive.

ah, yes. the crux of the issue. that burning resolve inside of you to rebel against even this. but you see, my system proves youre exerting power. because youre harnessing your emotions, or using them to destroy others. in any case, we can see the resistance (from inside or from others) and the end result (you die or others die.) just a question of which path you want to take.

Yes, I am exerting power.....but why does this mean I will harm others?

*shakes head* were twins on this one, again. how ludicrous and creepy. i let my cold outer shell drive them away. i love that though: driving them away gives you the feel that youre in the drivers seat, and it hurts less sometimes when you push them away before they have a chance to really matter to you.

Yeah, I do agree with you to a point. Everyone leaves, so it's best to be the one who leaves first?

This is rather pathetic, but very true I think.

*laughs* better than dallas? how so?

Ummm...well, there is at least no Country-Western.

We are not exactly a thriving cultural center, but we have a few nice museams, nice lectures on occasion, and a few nice bars. Oh, and good food. Very liberal drug laws.

It's very nice if you have a car. But I don't, and you really need a car to go to the places (towards Detroit - Royal Oak, Oak Park, Auburn Hills, etc) with good music and clubs. Actually, I think Royal Oak has a rather thriving SandM subculture.

So life sucks, as usual. Thank Cthulhu for the internet.

Never been to Dallas, but I can ask somone who has. Sounded horrible, from what I know.

 

[ubermich]

to xev:

Oh, and my brain works in really weird ways - that has something to do with it.

are you saying this because its appropriate? or does it really work in weird ways? i do the same thing, but in a different context. i have perfectionism issues (a cognitive disorder) which is just another manifestation of my undergirding need/obsession with power--its just this time its directed at my environment instead of at people. is that where you get your power obsession from?

It will at least keep people from bugging me with "so, what're you reading?"

*laughs* do people really ask you that?

Oh? I need to get at Sartre too. Almost finished with Freddy. And then you mentioned Foucault.... I think Sartre is next. And Rand.

*laughs* another similarity: its sooo dificult finding what youre going to become immersed in next. god, there is so much knowledge to dissect and master. im actually going to be reading nausea for fun, and i want to get onto indepth heidegger(one of freddy's contemporaries), indepth foucault, poststructuralism, and the split between modernism and postmodernism (thats all still for fun, but i consider it different from reading a fictional story). goddamn, then sometime in the nebulous future, i want to explore hermeneutics and semiotics--that stuff with saussure, derrida, blah blah blah.

christ . . . i look at all the stuff i want to do, then i decide im never going to get around to it! im sure you know that feeling!

"SandM for Dummies"

you know i saw a 'sex for dummies' at the barnes and noble here once. quite ridiculous. as for sandm for dummies, i have some nice cartoons they can incorporate at the beginning of their chapters...

I can imagine that they'd attract a lot of the "horny 13 year old boy" species of troll.

*laughs* i see xev. im constantly horny, 13, and a rare species of underground troll. lol.

Oh you have no idea. Poor men. You seem so easy to manipulate.

thats what men are for. standing reserve. you may think this sounds sick, but i kind of like the idea of being manipulated sexually, as long as im aware of it. then it seems like im in control, sort of. like leonard in memento. like you have power yet you really dont.

Ah, but I do. I enjoy math....it is very pure. Very beautiful in its purity. Science is not like this - science is chaotic and confusing - beautiful in its own way, but math makes sense most of the time.

agreed, again. math IS a 'pure science' and i love it for that. no experiential errors like in biology or astrophysics. nothing you have to discover. the only thing you have holding you back is your limited sense/ability for synthetic a priori learning. im just not good at following really, really abstract mathematics. i need a fucking graph.

i took a personality test once--i was a 'visual mathematician.' i love geometry, so simple and pure. no unforeseeable variables to worry about. not like calculus.

which brings up one good point. (im not too fond of discussing math but) math teachers are absolutely wretched. if it wasnt for my innate ability to understand geometry i would have failed that class, and because i dont have that luxury with more abstract stuff like calculus, its really fucking hard. god, math textbooks are written so poorly, its amazing anyone learns, especially coupled with the fact that math teachers are somewhat abstruse.

 

[ubermich]

my biggest issue is that they dont give you the entire fucking big picture. they give a perfunctory glance over one area, pick up something entirely different the next chapter, then expect you to integrate the two in word problems for the final exam when they havent even walked you through the two 'separate' topics together. god, thats another lifelong goal. when i have the money, im going to buy a publishing house and write a coherent, all encompassing, userfriendly 'kids level' math textbook. i know ill fail, because im sure others have tried to do this, but i can dream

Jesus fuck, I cannot pick an operating system - why should I pick a sexual orientation?

good point. like i said before, sexual attraction is not based in sex for me. i think its more of a personality thing. also because im tired of lusting after the 'picture perfect' models that stuff every supermarket line in every grocery store in america. thats not real. people's minds are.

I think a lot of our differences are due to the fact that
A: You're male. I'm female. That does affect things.
B: Semantics and miscommunication.

i agree. yet, you do seem to be a 'masculine' female in the head. youre not a regular teenage girl. prissy blonde cheerleaders dont muse about power/control/emotional pangs. actually they do, but theyre not rational people. theyre...'pure feelers.' devoid of any capability of exercising reason. they couldnt climb out of themselves if you gave them a ladder. reason, and this is another gender stereotype, makes you male in our society. i guess youre male xev as for the semantics and miscommunication. agreed as well. everyone just needs to learn telepathy in this world.

But why do you associate power so strongly with destruction? Freddy and I think that it can also be supremely creative. Creation, in and of itself, is power. I dunno....I just don't see why power would have to be destructive.

very very correct. two reasons:
A) as ive said before, emotions can coopt logic. theres something in me that needs to destroy i feel . . .
B) as freddy says, you have to die in order to live. i must destroy before i can create.

We are not exactly a thriving cultural center, but we have a few nice museams, nice lectures on occasion, and a few nice bars. Oh, and good food. Very liberal drug laws.
It's very nice if you have a car. But I don't, and you really need a car to go to the places (towards Detroit - Royal Oak, Oak Park, Auburn Hills, etc) with good music and clubs. Actually, I think Royal Oak has a rather thriving SandM subculture.
So life sucks, as usual. Thank Cthulhu for the internet.
Never been to Dallas, but I can ask somone who has. Sounded horrible, from what I know.

do you go to the university? kinda sucks if you have to stay there for four years. "very liberal drug laws." lol. is that because of your proximity to canada? i heard theyre going to legalize weed and prostitution there. christ im living in the wrong north american country. whatd your friend say about dallas? its disgusting here. it really is.

we have 'trees' the size of large bushes. we are in the armpit of the south. we dont have the large, beautiful forests east of here, and we dont have the rolling hills and desert steppes west of here. its ludicrous why anyone would build a city in our location. and on top of that, were quite conservative. youd think people would be quite lude, into gambling and gratuitous prostitution, if they had to live in this shithold. but noooo, austere religious abound. and on top of that we have no waterside. *pulls out gun. decides against it, puts it back in drawer*

 

[Xev]

ubermich:

are you saying this because its appropriate? or does it really work in weird ways?

Oh it does. I make a lot of associations that nobody else understands.

Long story. Suffice to say that my mind works in very weird ways, jumps around a lot.

i do the same thing, but in a different context. i have perfectionism issues (a cognitive disorder) which is just another manifestation of my undergirding need/obsession with power--its just this time its directed at my environment instead of at people. is that where you get your power obsession from?

STOP THAT! Stop sounding like me!

I mean it.....stop it. You are not supposed to feel exactly the way I do. It's really not fair of you.

*Attempts to glare menacingly*

Seriously, yes, I am an utter perfectionist. I think it's both cause and consequence of my power obsession.

*laughs* do people really ask you that?

Yes, and they make very, very stupid comments too.

christ . . . i look at all the stuff i want to do, then i decide im never going to get around to it! im sure you know that feeling!

*Laughs*

That's me! Oh, that's exactly what I am like. Right now, I have plans to read Foucault, Rand, re-read Zarathrusra, and start on Sartre. I also want to re-read some of Mill and Benthem. And now I've decided to pick up a bio of de Sade.

Sometimes I do actually want to live forever, just so I know I'd get around to this stuff.

you know i saw a 'sex for dummies' at the barnes and noble here once. quite ridiculous. as for sandm for dummies, i have some nice cartoons they can incorporate at the beginning of their chapters...

"Sex for dummies" ? Oh my fucking god...I can just see the text now.

*laughs* i see xev. im constantly horny, 13, and a rare species of underground troll. lol.

You're thirteen? *Buries face in hands*

I'm corrupting a child! I'm horrible! I'm evil!

I swear, officer, he told me he was eighteen!

Seriously, it would explain why they are so strict.

thats what men are for. standing reserve. you may think this sounds sick, but i kind of like the idea of being manipulated sexually, as long as im aware of it. then it seems like im in control, sort of. like leonard in memento. like you have power yet you really dont

You mean if some girl knows exactly how to wrap you around her finger and completely control you? Might be interesting.

Sick? I won't comment, only point out that if I printed this conversation and showed it to my acquantences/classmates/teachers, they'd be frightened of me.

Might be interesting.

agreed, again. math IS a 'pure science' and i love it for that. no experiential errors like in biology or astrophysics. nothing you have to discover. the only thing you have holding you back is your limited sense/ability for synthetic a priori learning. im just not good at following really, really abstract mathematics. i need a fucking graph.

Okay, that's it. I'm insane. It's obvious that I've made you up in order to talk to myself about math, Sartre, the will to power and SandM.

*Sits quietly and waits for the nice men in clean white coats to take her back to the asylum*

I love the purity. Math, and maybe computer programming, is the only thing in this universe that is pure.

which brings up one good point. (im not too fond of discussing math but) math teachers are absolutely wretched. if it wasnt for my innate ability to understand geometry i would have failed that class, and because i dont have that luxury with more abstract stuff like calculus, its really fucking hard. god, math textbooks are written so poorly, its amazing anyone learns, especially coupled with the fact that math teachers are somewhat abstruse.

Agreed! Completely. I taught myself algebra because my math teachers were too bloody incompetent to teach me.

Still have problems with the lower maths because of this.

And I adore geometry for the reasons you've said.

my biggest issue is that they dont give you the entire fucking big picture. they give a perfunctory glance over one area, pick up something entirely different the next chapter, then expect you to integrate the two in word problems for the final exam when they havent even walked you through the two 'separate' topics together. god, thats another lifelong goal. when i have the money, im going to buy a publishing house and write a coherent, all encompassing, userfriendly 'kids level' math textbook. i know ill fail, because im sure others have tried to do this, but i can dream

Exactly! And they don't explain why things are the way they are.

I mean, I had one textbook that basically said: This is the Pythagoran theorem. These are problems involving the pythagoran theorem. Solve them.

No further explanation. No examples. No "this is why the Pythagoran helps us with problems involving blah". No nothing.

Very confusing. And then they just skip on, without any explanation of how the concepts relate.

good point. like i said before, sexual attraction is not based in sex for me. i think its more of a personality thing.

Would you stop talking like me?! I mean it! You repeat everything I would say.

I think I must be slowly going insane, and am hallucinating this entire conversation.

also because im tired of lusting after the 'picture perfect' models that stuff every supermarket line in every grocery store in america. thats not real. people's minds are.

Again, agreed completely. I think that somone average or below average looking and interesting is way sexier than some beautiful airhead.

And I am tired of competing with airbrushed, collagen injected, silicone breast and buttocked, models. Fuuuuck....I haven't the money to look like that.

Besides, they all look the same to me.

Of course, this is about power too.

i agree. yet, you do seem to be a 'masculine' female in the head. youre not a regular teenage girl. prissy blonde cheerleaders dont muse about power/control/emotional pangs. actually they do, but theyre not rational people. theyre...'pure feelers.' devoid of any capability of exercising reason. they couldnt climb out of themselves if you gave them a ladder.

I disagree. It's not only that they are irrational, it is that they are utterly and completely shallow. They are too shallow to understand these urges...they feel them, and they may muse about them to an extent, but they are too shallow to understand or really be hurt by the things that you and I feel.

reason, and this is another gender stereotype, makes you male in our society. i guess youre male xev

*Pats chest*

Not quite, thank Cthulhu. I do seem very male though, don't I? I mean personality wise.

I suppose I had to assume a rather masculine role at a very early age. Always had to lead, to actively take care of others, to control.....

It all comes back to power, doesn't it? My hound of heaven. Always there, always in my mind.

very very correct. two reasons:
A) as ive said before, emotions can coopt logic. theres something in me that needs to destroy i feel . . .
B) as freddy says, you have to die in order to live. i must destroy before i can create.

I see. You know, I think I do wish to destroy as well....however, I have my destructiveness channeled.

I think I will be able to aim it at the sort of people and things that need or deserve to be destroyed.

I've been meaning to ask - your favorite NIN song?

Confirm a hypothesis, please.

do you go to the university? kinda sucks if you have to stay there for four years. "very liberal drug laws." lol. is that because of your proximity to canada? i heard theyre going to legalize weed and prostitution there.

Yeah, and the fact that our legislators are a bunch of aging hippies. Penalty for posession of weed is $50 for an ounce, and that's assuming you even get caught.

christ im living in the wrong north american country. whatd your friend say about dallas? its disgusting here. it really is.

I quote:

"Dallas is everything that is wrong with America, concentrated in one cesspool of a city"

were quite conservative. youd think people would be quite lude, into gambling and gratuitous prostitution, if they had to live in this shithold. but noooo, austere religious abound. and on top of that we have no waterside. *pulls out gun. decides against it, puts it back in drawer*

*laughs*
You're in Texas, you probably have a huge cache of firearms.

But you must survive and go to uni out of state or something. Fuck the extra costs, you must flee! Flee! Flee!

 

[ubermich]

to xev:

okay, this is ridiculous. i think weve pretty much established that were twins psychologically, only trapped in different bodies. unless i really am just a figment of your subconcious. *pokes self* god its so hard to be sure about anything

have you noticed something about our conversation? this is strange, but i swear i can see your emotions in your words. before you seemed taciturn, kinda depressed, and now you seem kind of hyper. and its strange because im doing the exact opposite. god i had so much energy a few days (and posts) ago, but now im going into a melancholy, subdued state. do you have mood swings like i do or am i just imagining things?

Long story. Suffice to say that my mind works in very weird ways, jumps around a lot.

i have to ask, now that were on the subject of thought processing. how do you think? i mean how do you process the world? for example, i think about abstract mathematical/philosophical concepts in terms of mental movies and pictures (in jpeg format of course). like i cant read a book without making a little video of the plot/concepts in my head. and i usually see a picture of what im trying to say before the words come to my lips. do you do that?

Seriously, yes, I am an utter perfectionist. I think it's both cause and consequence of my power obsession.

yes! youre right (i assume you are) about being a perfectionist and about its relation to power. god, everything goes back to our urge to control our environment. i swear it something evolutionary. makes sense if you think about it: running around naked with barely any food in your stomach, always wary of large predatory animals against whom you have no chance of survival, squatting in caves with your family whom you must protect for their sake and for yours (but the little ones keep disappearing because of that sabre-toothed thats been stalking the tribe.) youre naked to the merciless brutality of mother nature. shit, i think control would become my subconcious language as well.

I also want to re-read some of Mill and Benthem.

i dunno. im not too big on social theory/utilitarianism. maybe its a politician thing

You're thirteen? *Buries face in hands*

lol. no you called me thirteen in your last post. i thought it was funny too. im actually 17. how old are you?

I'm corrupting a child! I'm horrible! I'm evil!

ah the corruption of children. what a touchy subject. i really wish i hadnt been corrupted by coming of age/knowledge. i wish i could just have stayed a little kid and not have had to deal with the real world. like in the catcher in the rye. so artless and carefree those kids were. . . . but you cant go back once youve crossed adolescence. *laughs* now, having experienced the real world id be bored shitless.

You mean if some girl knows exactly how to wrap you around her finger and completely control you? Might be interesting.

yes! god, that would be incredible. *laughs* and god that sounds sick. you ever have that fantasy? i seriously think it stems from the fact that im so paranoid about control, preventing my own exploitation by others, that sometimes i wish i could just let it all go. i wish i didnt have to worry about all that, and could just let--no want--the ones i loved to establish a dominant ascendancy over my every action/thought/being. to control me like a master controls a slave. ahhh, nin again is apropos:

 

[ubermich]

'i want you to break me . . .
i want you to take me . . .
i want you to break me . . .
and i want you to throw me away . . .'

I mean, I had one textbook that basically said: This is the Pythagoran theorem. These are problems involving the pythagoran theorem. Solve them.
No further explanation. No examples. No "this is why the Pythagoran helps us with problems involving blah". No nothing.

E-fucking-xactly! god heres another facet of this phenomenon: they dont bother to teach you any math history. no, i dont care about the personal trivialities of pythagoras, descartes. but shit, tell me how they came up with their theorems and proofs so i can emulate them, and so i can better understand the utility of the information youre providing me in relation to the other concepts in calculus/geometry, the ones that youre not going to talk about in this shitty math class limited to algebra. god, how hard can it be to teach math? im sorry, i dont consider you or myself to be stupid, xev. maybe limited, but not stupid. if i cant understand an abstract math concept in pre-cal, there aint no way in hell 90% of the rest of the class is going to. so why dont these fuckers get the picture and learn how to teach? im sorry, but if they want middle america to embrace mathematics, theyre going to have to stop catering JUST to the stephen hawkings of the world.

I disagree. It's not only that they are irrational, it is that they are utterly and completely shallow. They are too shallow to understand these urges...they feel them, and they may muse about them to an extent, but they are too shallow to understand or really be hurt by the things that you and I feel.

ah, one of our few disagreements still remaining. must flush this out. *laughs* i dunno, i really wonder if these people feel much pain. have you talked to theM? a girl i knew wouldnt shut up about her sexlife/foreplay anecdotes and it just drove me nuts. i think she was trying to sound sexy, slutty, what every man apparently wants nowadays, and i couldnt take it. im saying i dont know she actually felt the pain she was conveying to me, i really cant see her doing that. people like that dont obsess/analyze/evaluate one instance/subject from every possible fucking viewpoint. they just say, "this is how i feel. he said this, and now im pissed. were not fucking tonight, hes been an asshole." they dont look at what he was feeling, why he said what he said, why theyre angry, and why fucking must be a language of revenge. no self-intuition whatsoever it seems. ludicrous how these people can suck up resources malthusianly.

I've been meaning to ask - your favorite NIN song?

*laughs* oh this is too hard. i really, really cannot have a favorite nin song. when im feeling bitter/frustrated/hungering for control, i put in broken. everything on that album is so pertinent to your feelings of rage and resentment. "happiness in slavery" is so profound, well have to discuss it sometime. when im feeling just shittily depressed, i throw in the downward spiral. this is i believe to be reznors most profound work, the linear story of a man who (like ourselves) feels the inexorable tug of his 'gods,' (society, lust, self, religion,) and resolves to ameliorate his situation by isolating himself from these gods, deifying himself, and exacting against others/himself the destruction they once exacted against him. all for the hounddog of control, as you put it. mr self-destruct basically 'flew too high and burnt the wing.' 'ruiners' my favorite song on this album. critiques the god you hate so much xev. when im feeling melancholy, i slip into the fragile. such sublimity. weve already discussed "the great below," i love that song. its my current nin favorite. ahh, this album is about real life. the most banal (in a good way) of reznor's albums. i think its the non-linear expression of the ups and downs the post-downward spiral mr. self-destruct must cope with on his road to recovery. basically, the downward spiral was the, well, emotional downward spiral. the fragile, is picking up where that left off and showing you that 'the pieces [do] all fit,' if you want them to. this really is too long to discuss here . . .

all-time favorite? if i really had to pick id have to say it is "the new flesh" from fixed. *laughs* i have no doubt thats not what you expected.

But you must survive and go to uni out of state or something. Fuck the extra costs, you must flee! Flee! Flee!

*laughs* yes, im thinking i must go to college out of state to keep my sanity. god, i cant wait to live this shithole in a year. im still wondering where to go. hows ann arbor?

 

[Amp]

To GB-GIL Trans-global,

G' day,
I did reply if you didn't see it, its on the 4th pg. of this thread.
You did not prove 'God' is unloving, only that it lets us deal wihth the cards we are dealt. I'm not throwing pity your way, you don't need that and you seem to cope (in your own way) I empathize because your young and I can see how your condition probably hinders your enjoyment of play. In my post I asked if you tried different diets, veggen and such. People believe they would do things differently if they were 'God' , I think not. It(God) knows the end from the beginning so there is a reason (we could never know unless we're told). Something I do know now is 'God' often disregards purely self-ish prayers and answers those the are for others, so I pray for you. Some prayers aren't answered until the individual is ready for it and if you have no faith(don't believe) then you pray in vain.

 

[Xev]

ubermich:

New avatar. Is that Malcolm X?

okay, this is ridiculous. i think weve pretty much established that were twins psychologically, only trapped in different bodies. unless i really am just a figment of your subconcious. *pokes self* god its so hard to be sure about anything

Or I am a figment of yours, you know. You could be imagining me.

But I think we're psychological twins. Only....the difference in genders twists things somewhat.

have you noticed something about our conversation? this is strange, but i swear i can see your emotions in your words. before you seemed taciturn, kinda depressed, and now you seem kind of hyper. and its strange because im doing the exact opposite. god i had so much energy a few days (and posts) ago, but now im going into a melancholy, subdued state. do you have mood swings like i do or am i just imagining things?

Well my twin, I feel the exact same fucking way. I have mood swings like that as well.

And yes, I have seen "competent, mental health-care professionals". If there's any real organic cause, they missed it.

i have to ask, now that were on the subject of thought processing. how do you think?

Visually. I see the concepts that words represent, and they have a definite "feel". I mean it. I can see concepts. I can feel concepts.

do you do that?

You will be shocked, my twin, to hear that I again do the exact same fucking thing.

yes! youre right (i assume you are) about being a perfectionist and about its relation to power. god, everything goes back to our urge to control our environment. i swear it something evolutionary.

It is, that's what I was trying to explain when I was babbling about chimpanzees. It is rooted in our urge to control our enviornment, and our need to control dominence hierarchies.

lol. no you called me thirteen in your last post. i thought it was funny too. im actually 17. how old are you?

18. Jesus. We're almost even the same age.

ah the corruption of children. what a touchy subject. i really wish i hadnt been corrupted by coming of age/knowledge. i wish i could just have stayed a little kid and not have had to deal with the real world. like in the catcher in the rye. so artless and carefree those kids were. . . . but you cant go back once youve crossed adolescence. *laughs* now, having experienced the real world id be bored shitless.

Oddly enough, my twin, I do not have that feeling. Perhaps it is because I grew up very very quickly.

However, I think it would be rather nice to go back to the time I was about five or six.

yes! god, that would be incredible. *laughs* and god that sounds sick. you ever have that fantasy?

Not emotionally, but sexually. I have a very strong "get your fucking hands off my psyche" attitude.

But yes, I have that fantasy. Only manifested in different ways.

i seriously think it stems from the fact that im so paranoid about control, preventing my own exploitation by others, that sometimes i wish i could just let it all go. i wish i didnt have to worry about all that, and could just let--no want--the ones i loved to establish a dominant ascendancy over my every action/thought/being. to control me like a master controls a slave

Ah, you are a bit more human than I. I could never trust somone to that extent.

Shiiiiit...this sounds sick, but I'd want to be used. Not dominated, but I would dedicate my life to him, make him the center of my existance, and be completely used by him.

Shiiiiit, I am scaring myself.

'i want you to break me . . .
i want you to take me . . .
i want you to break me . . .
and i want you to throw me away . . .

Ahhhhh.....now that I do share the feeling for.

E-fucking-xactly! god heres another facet of this phenomenon: they dont bother to teach you any math history. no, i dont care about the personal trivialities of pythagoras, descartes. but shit, tell me how they came up with their theorems and proofs so i can emulate them, and so i can better understand the utility of the information youre providing me in relation to the other concepts in calculus/geometry, the ones that youre not going to talk about in this shitty math class limited to algebra. god, how hard can it be to teach math?

Exactimundo. If I could see it in a historical context, see how maths developed, I could see how they relate better.

No, we're not stupid. Or any more stupid than 99.99999% of the planet. They teach it wrong.

ah, one of our few disagreements still remaining. must flush this out. *laughs* i dunno, i really wonder if these people feel much pain. have you talked to theM? a girl i knew wouldnt shut up about her sexlife/foreplay anecdotes and it just drove me nuts. i think she was trying to sound sexy, slutty, what every man apparently wants nowadays, and i couldnt take it.

No disagreement, more semantic dispute. We agree again.

God, I hate it when people do that. Can't they see that I don't fucking care?

I mean, shit, if there was something I could learn from it all...but no, they just fucking whine.

im saying i dont know she actually felt the pain she was conveying to me, i really cant see her doing that.

Exactly. I don't think that people who are not deep and complex can feel deep and complex sorrows.

They're simply too shallow to feel that sort of pain.

they dont look at what he was feeling, why he said what he said, why theyre angry, and why fucking must be a language of revenge. no self-intuition whatsoever it seems. ludicrous how these people can suck up resources malthusianly.

Agreed again. They don't know anything about themselves. They are literally unable to comprehend anything of substance.

The sad fucking thing is that most - like 99% - of humans are like that. Pure instinct, extremely shallow, and with no self knowledge. I think that this is part of why I feel so distant from them - they have no self-intuition. I do. They have no depth. I do. They are pure instinct. I know why my instincts are as they are.

Shiiiiiit, we're getting into master/slave morality without even noticing it.

Now my twin, if I said that they were a waste of space and oxygen, would you agree?

"happiness in slavery" is so profound, well have to discuss it sometime.

God yes, we must.

'ruiners' my favorite song on this album. critiques the god you hate so much xev

What do you mean, "hate"?

when im feeling melancholy, i slip into the fragile. such sublimity. weve already discussed "the great below," i love that song. its my current nin favorite. ahh, this album is about real life. the most banal (in a good way) of reznor's albums. i think its the non-linear expression of the ups and downs the post-downward spiral mr. self-destruct must cope with on his road to recovery. basically, the downward spiral was the, well, emotional downward spiral. the fragile, is picking up where that left off and showing you that 'the pieces [do] all fit,' if you want them to. this really is too long to discuss here . . .

Shit, you have my strategy. When I feel like I am being fucked with emotionally, I put on Hurt.

"Everyone I love
Goes away
In the end
But you could have it all"

I feel transcendent, I put in the Great Below. Angry, I listen to Burn.

Oddly enough, I put on songs rather than albums.

all-time favorite? if i really had to pick id have to say it is "the new flesh" from fixed. *laughs* i have no doubt thats not what you expected.

Not at all. But it makes sense.

*laughs* yes, im thinking i must go to college out of state to keep my sanity. god, i cant wait to live this shithole in a year. im still wondering where to go. hows ann arbor?

Yes, you must. People suck, the whole world over, but they suck worse in Dallas. You need to get out of Dallas. You need to get out of Texas. You need to get out of the Soulth.

Believe me, things will get a whole fuck of a lot better if you are in a decent place.

Ann Arbor is sweet. Incredibly expensive though, but if you have a car - if you can move around - it can be sheer heaven.

Might be worth looking into. The U of M is too expensive for undergrad work - that's why I plan to go somewhere else for my Masters. Don't know quite where.

Extremely competitive, academically, though.

 

[ubermich]

to xev:

sorry, ive been busy, so i couldnt respond as quickly.
god, but i swear my eyes are getting worse staring at a computer screen for a few hours a day--with this addiction to sciforums and all.

New avatar. Is that Malcolm X?

yes. it was either malcolm or mickey and mallory from natural born killers. i couldnt find mickey and mallory in a 60X60 or less jpeg or gif, so i went with malcolm.

not that im settling though. i love malcolm. im not african-american, but oh, i can empathize with his "philosophy," and the subsequent ethics system borne from it, perhaps, because im a minority. i can get quite bitter about the systematic destruction of my culture/rape of my peoples women/plundering of my homenation's economy by the spanish and later the united states. and its sick, because im not even a part of that culture anymore--im soo fucking white its ridiculous. i even SOUND white. its like any sense of cultural history has been effaced by living in this bland american monoculture. dont get offended, i love living in america (and i dont mean to offend you if youre white) but sometimes you need malcolm to remind of what you SHOULD be were you truly in touch with your ethnicity in america.... i have nothing but the deepest respect for the man.

oh sure, some will say, 'but he changed his views after he went to mecca!' yes. he did. but that just makes him a greater man in my book. not only could he dream, but he could dream iconoclastically against what EVERYONE (even some of his own fucking people like MLK) believed at the time, make that dream a reality, and then after all that still retain the humility to CHANGE ALL OF HIS VIEWS COMPLETELY AROUND. hes the perfect example of a man who controls his actions, not vice versa.

so malcolm will stay as my little avatar for now whos your feisty little feline?

Visually. I see the concepts that words represent, and they have a definite "feel". I mean it. I can see concepts. I can feel concepts.

yes! yes! yes! i knew it. god, i really dont understand how people can think differently. i heard there are people who see words in a book instead. what in the fuck? i have to make a litte video of the plot. and abstract concepts? i ALWAYS make a little graph or chart or pictogram before i TRULY understand something. whats hard is translating that picture into words. god, thats probably why im a horrible writer....

It is, that's what I was trying to explain when I was babbling about chimpanzees. It is rooted in our urge to control our enviornment, and our need to control dominence hierarchies.

*laughs* god people are pathetic. always trying to suppress visceral urges that cant be explained but are hard-wired into us biologically. its a losing battle.....

18. Jesus. We're almost even the same age.

whens your birthday? mines november 10.

Oddly enough, my twin, I do not have that feeling. Perhaps it is because I grew up very very quickly.

yes, i was quite sure that you didnt have this feeling. youve said before that you 'had to take charge' quite early. we should explore this distinction, perhaps it can be resolved if we consider birth order. were you a first-born child? i was a last-born child. basically an only child, actually (the "mistake." you know youre a mistake when your siblings are 7 and 9 years older than you.) its possible that ive wanted to be in charge (to control) so badly that i didnt realize what i was doing to myself/life/family in the process...(i havent been quite 'polite' to my family these past, oh 10 years). and now that ive destroyed that, i wish i could 'put all the pieces back together....'

Not emotionally, but sexually. I have a very strong "get your fucking hands off my psyche" attitude.

yes, i agree. miscommunication again. im sorry if it sounded as if i wanted someone to control me emotionally/psychologically. no, im way to prideful/control-hungry to allow that to happen. but sexually/and in foreplay, thats a different issue. i have no standards then. i could become a complete masochist, and i love every minute of it. my only NEED is that the other person give their undivided attention to my destruction/exploitation. thats sounds so sick. i cant stand it if someone uses me and they dont care or use other people too. but if they use ONLY me, and enjoy every fucking minute of it....its indescribably euphoric.

 

[ubermich]

Shiiiiit...this sounds sick, but I'd want to be used. Not dominated, but I would dedicate my life to him, make him the center of my existance, and be completely used by him.

i think you know what im talking about......

Shiiiiit, I am scaring myself.

ive come to the conclusion that were going to need to do that for each other xev. scaring another person usually gets them thinking, self-intuiting.....

The sad fucking thing is that most - like 99% - of humans are like that. Pure instinct, extremely shallow, and with no self knowledge. I think that this is part of why I feel so distant from them - they have no self-intuition. I do. They have no depth. I do. They are pure instinct. I know why my instincts are as they are.

*laughs* this is exactly where my philosophy of lying to oneself stems from. sometimes i just wish i could be so blissfully ignorant, to be rid of this "curse" of self-intuition. you know its a sick fucking world when having a proclivity for obsessive analysis (a primary component of the scientific method upon which our world is built) is looked down upon...

Now my twin, if I said that they were a waste of space and oxygen, would you agree?

yes! exactly like malthus. exponential human growth, yet only linear growth of expendable resources. these people are sucking up our limited resources xev!

What do you mean, "hate"?

ah, i was wondering if you would agree with such a strong word. *laughs* this will probably spiral us into a lengthy discussion, but i believe to be atheist is essentially to hate god. you acknowledged (and my "illogical god" post did as well) that you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of god. only that he is outside the bounds of logic. therefore, to dedicate oneself wholeheartedly to atheism (as irrational as theism) is to tacitly profess a hate for god. why? because theres no logical reasoning with which you can conclude that god does not exist (only experiential), and if you still deny his existence absent reason, there must be some undergirding emotional urge to do so. call it what you will, but i see that as hate.

actually, im quite fond of god. i dont know if i believe in him, but hes a nice little fairy tale that will let you sleep better at night...

When I feel like I am being fucked with emotionally, I put on Hurt.

i actually cant stand listening to hurt. its too raw and pure...its hard to listen to how true sadness sounds because then your own starts eating at you.

Angry, I listen to Burn.

yes, i fell in love with this song after watching natural born killers....
oh god, and i almost forgot to mention 'something i can never have' from pretty hate machine. that song is incredible as well. unrequited love turned sour into seething angst...
have you heard 'the new flesh' from fixed? if you havent, i suggest you rip it off winmx or audiogalaxy...its not long, but its very, very good.

Might be worth looking into. The U of M is too expensive for undergrad work - that's why I plan to go somewhere else for my Masters. Don't know quite where.

sounds nice. the only two schools im really interested as of now are u of chicago and nyu. nyu has the number one graduate philosophy program, apparently, and u of chicago is, well, in chicago and its a great school for prelaw but ill look at ann arbor.

 

[Xev]

ubermich:

sorry, ive been busy, so i couldnt respond as quickly.
god, but i swear my eyes are getting worse staring at a computer screen for a few hours a day-- with this addiction to sciforums and all.

Yes...you'll learn to have this place on your screen as you surf, occasionally reloading the page to see new posts.

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

oh sure, some will say, 'but he changed his views after he went to mecca!' yes. he did. but that just makes him a greater man in my book. not only could he dream, but he could dream iconoclastically against what EVERYONE (even some of his own fucking people like MLK) believed at the time, make that dream a reality, and then after all that still retain the humility to CHANGE ALL OF HIS VIEWS COMPLETELY AROUND. hes the perfect example of a man who controls his actions, not vice versa.

Agreed. He's always been one of my heroes....less so now...I dunno, I'm more conscious of being "white".

I adored him when I was a kid - even suspended from school for telling my teacher to fuck off after she tried to confiscate my copy of his Autobiography.

I still deeply respect him, but....I dunno. I suppose I lost a bit of my innocence. There was a time when I could listen to Malcolm's speeches - I used to have a cd of them - and just be in utter awe his defiance, his heroism, the way he told the "white man" to fuck off.

Then I realized that I was the "white man" - to some extent. And I could never really appreciate him as much after that. Guilt I suppose.

But hey, I have some of the most persecuted people on earth as my ancestors, so I need not feel too bad.

whos your feisty little feline?

Character in an online comic - Zoe. I alternate between her, Xev, and Oasis

*Shrugs*

I rather like comic-book type women for my avatar. And Xenia, of course. If I get a little time soon, I shall try to resize her. Or create something along her lines....

Hmph! My fascination with power manifests itself yet again.

yes! yes! yes! i knew it. god, i really dont understand how people can think differently. i heard there are people who see words in a book instead. what in the fuck? i have to make a litte video of the plot. and abstract concepts? i ALWAYS make a little graph or chart or pictogram before i TRULY understand something. whats hard is translating that picture into words. god, thats probably why im a horrible writer....

How can you see words? You can't! I can't, at least. Every word goes with the other words, and they create a picture, and as the words change, the picture changes.

Agreed. I'm a horrible writer too, because I have a hard time translating pictures into words.

*laughs* god people are pathetic. always trying to suppress visceral urges that cant be explained but are hard-wired into us biologically. its a losing battle.....

Damn right. Supression is useless. I'm not sure what to do with them, but supression is useless.

whens your birthday? mines november 10.

I suspect (my paranoid nature) that you are doing this simply to fuck with my head. Of course, I have no idea how you could have found out...oh well. I don't care.

November 10th.

Martin Luther's 500th birthday...son of a bitch, so different from me and he goes and steals my birthday! 500th anniversery, no less!

yes, i was quite sure that you didnt have this feeling. youve said before that you 'had to take charge' quite early. we should explore this distinction, perhaps it can be resolved if we consider birth order. were you a first-born child? i was a last-born child. basically an only child, actually (the "mistake." you know youre a mistake when your siblings are 7 and 9 years older than you.) its possible that ive wanted to be in charge (to control) so badly that i didnt realize what i was doing to myself/life/family in the process...(i havent been quite 'polite' to my family these past, oh 10 years). and now that ive destroyed that, i wish i could 'put all the pieces back together....'

I was my mother's only child and she had sole custody of me during my early years, so, yeah, an only child.

And I was also a mistake.

As for family, I do not know what to say. I basically had to take control, with the way my mother was. Again, we get into the need to control my surroundings.

but sexually/and in foreplay, thats a different issue. i have no standards then. i could become a complete masochist, and i love every minute of it. my only NEED is that the other person give their undivided attention to my destruction/exploitation. thats sounds so sick. i cant stand it if someone uses me and they dont care or use other people too. but if they use ONLY me, and enjoy every fucking minute of it....its indescribably euphoric.

Yessss. I might add exploration. If they were quite fascinated with exploring my character and personality as well....if I could be completely passive, completely controlled....

Oh damn. We are so simular.

think you know what im talking about......

Indeed, my twin, I do.

ive come to the conclusion that were going to need to do that for each other xev. scaring another person usually gets them thinking, self-intuiting.....

Good! Awaken each other from our dogmatic slumbers, eh?

Let's do that. Because I am sitting here, laughing and wondering if this is not some elaborite internet prank on your part.....let's see what happens if we sound exactly like Xev just to torment her.

But you anticipate too much. And frankly, I don't care if this is some sort of joke, it's good to talk to you.

It's simply very odd...and rather funny.

And please don't be offended....you know that I am very paranoid and untrusting. And with a 1 in 365 chance that we share a birthday....

*laughs* this is exactly where my philosophy of lying to oneself stems from. sometimes i just wish i could be so blissfully ignorant, to be rid of this "curse" of self-intuition. you know its a sick fucking world when having a proclivity for obsessive analysis (a primary component of the scientific method upon which our world is built) is looked down upon...

Oh fuck yes. I know I've mentioned cheerleaders. They are rather some sick emotional fantasy on my part...the utter mindlessness of their existance, the sheer happiness....the shallowness....

Confession time! That is partly why I am so interested in fundamentalism....fundamentalists are like violent, god-fearing cheerleader types.

yes! exactly like malthus. exponential human growth, yet only linear growth of expendable resources. these people are sucking up our limited resources xev!

Yes and PRODUCING NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!

And they annoy the hell out of me. They are such an annoying waste of resources!

ah, i was wondering if you would agree with such a strong word. *laughs* this will probably spiral us into a lengthy discussion, but i believe to be atheist is essentially to hate god. you acknowledged (and my "illogical god" post did as well) that you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of god. only that he is outside the bounds of logic. therefore, to dedicate oneself wholeheartedly to atheism (as irrational as theism) is to tacitly profess a hate for god. why? because theres no logical reasoning with which you can conclude that god does not exist (only experiential), and if you still deny his existence absent reason, there must be some undergirding emotional urge to do so. call it what you will, but i see that as hate.

Maybe I do, to a degree. Certainly I would if I believed in His existance, as He is described.

But athiesm is not as illogical as theism...not quite...but we should not argue this now.

actually, im quite fond of god. i dont know if i believe in him, but hes a nice little fairy tale that will let you sleep better at night...

Whatever gets you through the night.

i actually cant stand listening to hurt. its too raw and pure...its hard to listen to how true sadness sounds because then your own starts eating at you.

That it is. Sometimes, however, I find it usefull to drown myself in the emotion.

yes, i fell in love with this song after watching natural born killers....

You like the movie?

oh god, and i almost forgot to mention 'something i can never have' from pretty hate machine. that song is incredible as well. unrequited love turned sour into seething angst...

Another of my favorites....I do not have the album, but I have a copy on my computer.

"you make this all go away
you make this all go away
i'm down to just one thing
and i'm starting to scare myself
you make this all go away
you make it all go away
i just want something
i just want something i can never have
i just want something i can never have"

Oh sweet fucking Cthulhu, yes. You know the feeling? Trying to drown yourself in another person?

And, you know what it is like to scare yourself? To see something in your psyche - your "soul" that frightens you?

have you heard 'the new flesh' from fixed? if you havent, i suggest you rip it off winmx or audiogalaxy...its not long, but its very, very good.

Thank you, I shall.

sounds nice. the only two schools im really interested as of now are u of chicago and nyu. nyu has the number one graduate philosophy program, apparently, and u of chicago is, well, in chicago and its a great school for prelaw but ill look at ann arbor.

*Moans*

Chicaaaaaagoooooo.......I love that city. I should look into them.

 

[ubermich]

to xev:

I adored him when I was a kid - even suspended from school for telling my teacher to fuck off after she tried to confiscate my copy of his Autobiography.

thats what i love about being a child--youre really not conscious of anything, your sex, race, personal problems, needs, issues,....none of that plays an important role in your life because youre too stupid to realize it.

Then I realized that I was the "white man" - to some extent. And I could never really appreciate him as much after that. Guilt I suppose.

*laughs* oh, perhaps there is a similarity here as well, xev. to me, the personal issue of race is a duality between displaced bitterness toward the world and paralyzing pangs of extreme guilt. it sounds like you at least have the guilt part down.....

oh, and know that i dont hate you for being white. i dont suppose i can do that in the south if i really want to interact with people. what the fuck am i talking about? in america, rather. i just admire malcolm, perhaps the way that you do....

i cant even say i feel akin to him racially--my people werent slaves. they were mistreated, but not slaves. in fact, i think i was quite lucky that europe couldnt fuck with (at least one of my countries) for quite some time. and now theyre an up and coming nuclear/economic power to be reckoned with. ah, that is quite funny. but back to malcolm. rather, i admire malcolm because I KNOW that I WOULD BE SAYING WHAT HE SAID WERE I ALIVE AND BLACK IN THE 1960s. i think the real reason i empathize with him is because he thinks like i do.

But hey, I have some of the most persecuted people on earth as my ancestors, so I need not feel too bad.

i have to ask, are you jewish? its more of a personal question (personal for myself) than sheer curiosity. the only other person in the world who really understands what im talking about other than you is jewish, and now i wonder if that has something to do with her culture....im actually asian, and jewish and asian cultures are quite similar in many respects.....

Character in an online comic - Zoe. I alternate between her, Xev, and Oasis.....I rather like comic-book type women for my avatar. And Xenia, of course. If I get a little time soon, I shall try to resize her. Or create something along her lines....

i like zoe the best....something sexy about the devil. but xenia's little 'erratically (er, um, erotically?) smeared body paint (just happening to cover all those delicate areas) is quite.....enticing.

all beautiful. all strong-willed, and all carrying weapons. i think you should explore that xev.

How can you see words? You can't! I can't, at least. Every word goes with the other words, and they create a picture, and as the words change, the picture changes.

exactly. and yet at least one person has told me that he thinks this way. i dont know if hes fucked up in the head, trying to impress me, or just too stupid to analyze the way thoughts are processed in his brain....

November 10th.

SHUT UP XEV! NOW I KNOW YOURE LYING. THIS IS PRACTICALLY A MATHEMATICAL IMPOSSIBILITY THAT WE ARE THE SAME PERSON PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND SHARE THE SAME BIRTHDAY. dont be offended, but im not sure if i believe you anymore.....

*grabs you by the shoulders in a firm grip, throws you up against the wall, glances furtively left and right, yells, 'who sent you?? who sent you, goddamnit??'*

As for family, I do not know what to say. I basically had to take control, with the way my mother was. Again, we get into the need to control my surroundings.

perhaps thats why you like the comic-book women you do...

Yessss. I might add exploration. If they were quite fascinated with exploring my character and personality as well....if I could be completely passive, completely controlled....

i have to disagree. exploring my character/personality is something i need in friendship. in this fantasy fuck im describing, i think letting the other person explore my character/personality (being fascinated by it i mean) would allow me to establish some control over them, and i do not want that.....perhaps this is miscommunication again, however, if you mean exploring your character/personality for the sole purpose of their learning how better to exploit you for their own sexual desires, to play little mindgames with you to lull you into their grasp, then i agree wholeheartedly. as long as they really, deep down inside, dont care about me...or care about me soo much they want to destroy me...

Let's do that. Because I am sitting here, laughing and wondering if this is not some elaborite internet prank on your part.....let's see what happens if we sound exactly like Xev just to torment her.

*laughs bitterly* oh, there is something karmatically apropos in that the one person whom i think understands me best doesnt believe that im real....thats funny.

 

[ubermich]

And please don't be offended....you know that I am very paranoid and untrusting. And with a 1 in 365 chance that we share a birthday....

*laughs again* you think youre the only person who thinks this is strange? i bet you anticipated what i was feeling, didnt you?, just so you could establish that seed of doubt in my mind in support of your existence, when all the facts point otherwise. yes, it would be too EASY for me to figure out this is some kind of joke if you had just nonchalantly mentioned, "oh really? huh, my bdays Nov. 10 as well." then i could have figured it out so quickly. but noooooo, youd just had to be the first to assert that im the fake one, and in doing so had to draw this out, and torment me ever so slowly, letting it grow more acute day by day.....

cheerleaders. They are rather some sick emotional fantasy on my part...

yess, i think you know what im talking about when i say i would love to remain an ignorant yet blissful fool...

Confession time! That is partly why I am so interested in fundamentalism....fundamentalists are like violent, god-fearing cheerleader types.

i actually dont know if i can make that connection, perhaps its there i just dont see it. i like fundamentalists more because they are so illogical, so faith-based, just an accident-waiting-to-happen if you know where to push them and expose their assumptions....

But athiesm is not as illogical as theism...

yes, please explain sometime...

Whatever gets you through the night.

*laughs* if you ever want to be happy, you must lie to yourself. 'happiness controls you.'

You like the movie?

you dont? i wouldnt say its an all-time favorite, in fact, i havent seen it in quite a while...and was looking to rent it again sometime... im more intrigued than obsessed with it. the most interesting part is mickey's one profound admission in the entire movie (at least the one i remember)...when hes sitting in the jail cell being interviewed for americas most wanted and he criticizes politics/the media/society in general as those who are truly impure because they do not acknowledge their emotions...theyre always trying to create lies and live through deception...but mickey, god, he repudiates all that shit and embraces his pure, animalistic inner urge to destroy. rather sick, and true as you will no doubt point out, my twin, a lower expression of power.

and also, i found the gratuitous violence/incestuous insinuations (between joliette lewis and rodney dangerfield) to be quite funny...thats quite sick, i know. but other people have agreed and i consider them normall......perhaps i just have twisted friends whom i think are normal.....

Another of my favorites....I do not have the album, but I have a copy on my computer.

'and in this place it seems like such a shame...
though it all looks different now...
i know its still the same...
everywhere i look youre all i see.....
just, the fading, fucking reminder of....
who i used to be.....'

i hate those emotional pangs/flashbacks that love/infatuation establishes in you. *laughs* oh, but those words, as with all of reznor's lyrics, apply just as much to creating your own existence as they do to love, just depends on whether you see him talking to a lover or to himself....thats what i love about nin....so ambiguous.....and hence so fitting for every emotional growing pain.

Oh sweet fucking Cthulhu, yes. You know the feeling? Trying to drown yourself in another person?

*laughs* did you expect anything less, my twin?

And, you know what it is like to scare yourself? To see something in your psyche - your "soul" that frightens you?

yes, i call that neediness/guilt/shame/extreme self-doubt....and of course other "scarier" impulses (like the need to destroy) borne from them.

Chicaaaaaagoooooo.......I love that city. I should look into them.

chicago is sooo beautiful...such innovative yet graceful architecture....a bustling metropolis with the characteristics of new york, except with fewer people (relatively speaking of course.)