The Holy Quran
- Thread starter EmptyForceOfChi
- Start date
I don't know if the Quran is holy or not, but my book states the following:
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Mathew 7:16
Right now In Iran pastor Youce Nadarkani is getting judge, and he is facing death, just because he is a Christian in a muslim country.
youcef.png
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Mathew 7:16
Right now In Iran pastor Youce Nadarkani is getting judge, and he is facing death, just because he is a Christian in a muslim country.
youcef.png
execute?
They were on a war, and they killed each other. Now that happened during the crusades hundred of years ago we are in the 21 century. Christian do no execute any one just because they are not Christians, Muslims do execute people just because they are nor Muslims....
They were on a war, and they killed each other. Now that happened during the crusades hundred of years ago we are in the 21 century. Christian do no execute any one just because they are not Christians, Muslims do execute people just because they are nor Muslims....
kx000
Valued Senior Member
The men responsible for this will meet the judgment.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
So Christians are superior? Boy, get the hell out of my face. You will meet the maker next to a brown man.
@Greenboy --
I wasn't actually talking about the Crusades, but that does give one a nice starting point. And nothing like that has happened recently huh? How about the Holocaust where Hitler killed upwards of six million jews for explicitly christian theological reasons(he said so himself, you can't pin that one on atheism). Or how about the Rwanda Genocide where priests and nuns took an active role in the killing because of their faith. You are ignorant of this, don't think that you can match me in knowledge of the evils of religion.
I can't believe that you could type this with a straight face(leading me to think that you're a Poe). Have you forgotten about the Inquisition? You know, the Inquisition which was started to root out jews who were pretending to be catholic? You remember that nearly eight hundred years of institutionalized torture and the execution of upwards of hundreds of thousands of people because they weren't christians(or were accused of not being christians)? I don't see how you could have forgotten about that.
Is it true that there are muslim countries where it is a crime to not be a muslim? Yes(sort of, it only really matters if you're preaching your faith or are accused of some other crime). Is it true that, by and large, christians don't kill over their faith anymore? Yes, though that's only if you forget about the millions dying of AIDS because of the RCC's stance on condoms. But the difference isn't theological, it's temporal and geographical.
Christianity is a much older religion than islam is, it's had more time to be affected by things like the enlightenment values of freedom of speech and freedom of religion(which necessarily implies a freedom from religion). Islam has not been tempered by these secular values yet, and won't because the core of islam remains geographically and economically isolated from the rest of the world, often by choice.
So no, your religion isn't any "better" than islam in this regard, it's just been forced to grow up with the rest of society.
I wasn't actually talking about the Crusades, but that does give one a nice starting point. And nothing like that has happened recently huh? How about the Holocaust where Hitler killed upwards of six million jews for explicitly christian theological reasons(he said so himself, you can't pin that one on atheism). Or how about the Rwanda Genocide where priests and nuns took an active role in the killing because of their faith. You are ignorant of this, don't think that you can match me in knowledge of the evils of religion.
I can't believe that you could type this with a straight face(leading me to think that you're a Poe). Have you forgotten about the Inquisition? You know, the Inquisition which was started to root out jews who were pretending to be catholic? You remember that nearly eight hundred years of institutionalized torture and the execution of upwards of hundreds of thousands of people because they weren't christians(or were accused of not being christians)? I don't see how you could have forgotten about that.
Is it true that there are muslim countries where it is a crime to not be a muslim? Yes(sort of, it only really matters if you're preaching your faith or are accused of some other crime). Is it true that, by and large, christians don't kill over their faith anymore? Yes, though that's only if you forget about the millions dying of AIDS because of the RCC's stance on condoms. But the difference isn't theological, it's temporal and geographical.
Christianity is a much older religion than islam is, it's had more time to be affected by things like the enlightenment values of freedom of speech and freedom of religion(which necessarily implies a freedom from religion). Islam has not been tempered by these secular values yet, and won't because the core of islam remains geographically and economically isolated from the rest of the world, often by choice.
So no, your religion isn't any "better" than islam in this regard, it's just been forced to grow up with the rest of society.
Oh Lord
Adolf was not christian. As a matter of fact he invaded the Vatican and limited their functions and Money, Hilter never did it for religion he followed a formula, called the Jewish people inferior and blamed them of all evil in society and this formula always works. That's amazing and about your allegations about Priests and nuns, we dont see them as Christians they are a cult, like the Jehovah's witness and the Mormons they are not Christian. Christians are the evangelical protestant Christian people following Christ only like the Messiah because he is God , and we do have a Religion based on a God dying for us showing his love for us coming down here and becoming a human being like us, you dont see that in other religions in this planet other gods want for you to die for them. That make a Christian Religion AMAZING if you compare with what we had around. I dont care who was here first or if the religion was forced to grow up like you said. The religion was the same for the begining. The coming Of Jesus was known since the old testament and the 10 commandments are in the Old testament and they haven't change I dont care what you think, these are fact. And any religion killing their own people because they don't think like their own is barbaric, the whole Muslim world is on fire right now because they are forcing their people lo follow one way of living. AND this is against human Nature. But if you fail to see this. Well I can not help you.
Adolf was not christian. As a matter of fact he invaded the Vatican and limited their functions and Money, Hilter never did it for religion he followed a formula, called the Jewish people inferior and blamed them of all evil in society and this formula always works. That's amazing and about your allegations about Priests and nuns, we dont see them as Christians they are a cult, like the Jehovah's witness and the Mormons they are not Christian. Christians are the evangelical protestant Christian people following Christ only like the Messiah because he is God , and we do have a Religion based on a God dying for us showing his love for us coming down here and becoming a human being like us, you dont see that in other religions in this planet other gods want for you to die for them. That make a Christian Religion AMAZING if you compare with what we had around. I dont care who was here first or if the religion was forced to grow up like you said. The religion was the same for the begining. The coming Of Jesus was known since the old testament and the 10 commandments are in the Old testament and they haven't change I dont care what you think, these are fact. And any religion killing their own people because they don't think like their own is barbaric, the whole Muslim world is on fire right now because they are forcing their people lo follow one way of living. AND this is against human Nature. But if you fail to see this. Well I can not help you.
it doesn't, as much as no biology text book states that male and female are equal. "equal" here is meant in the mathematical sense, in that what is to the left and right of the = sign amount to the same exact value and form.
islam and the quran builds society with recognizing what men do best and what women do best and separating each sex to do what it does better than the other.
secular societies mush the two genders together and set them fully interchangeable in any task or position available to a citizen.
in practice both societies suffer from problems, but the islamic model of "segregation for optimization" is the theoretically perfect one. (because it's from god)
.Big Chiller
Registered Senior Member
it doesn't, as much as no biology text book states that male and female are equal. "equal" here is meant in the mathematical sense, in that what is to the left and right of the = sign amount to the same exact value and form.
islam and the quran builds society with recognizing what men do best and what women do best and separating each sex to do what it does better than the other.
secular societies mush the two genders together and set them fully interchangeable in any task or position available to a citizen.
in practice both societies suffer from problems, but the islamic model of "segregation for optimization" is the theoretically perfect one. (because it's from god)
I applaud you for attempting to defend the Qur'an and Islam however the word you are looking for is not equal men and women are indeed equal what you are looking for is identical men and women do not have identical roles in society.
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Bells
Staff member
So how exactly do you assume that men and women are somehow not equal or worthy of equal rights and options in life?
While men and women are obviously different, both are human beings and thus, deserve to have equal rights, equal ability and right to choice and equal rights to all things, be it in the religious sense or not.
Do you think women are somehow less deserving of equal rights because they are women and not equal to men or vice versa?
Pray tell, how exactly can you come to the conclusion that men and women are not equal? I await your answer with a lot of interest. Because even your God claims in the Quran at 3:195 that men and women are equal, or "you are of one another".. But please, do explain to me how you think that men and women are not equal.
Bells
Staff member
Interesting.
Do you think that men and women are not of equal value?
And what would that be? The obvious biological differences like childbirth aside, how exactly do you think men and women should be segregated in society to do what tasks exactly as per your religion?
Why do you think "secular societies" allow men and women to do any task and do not discriminate or more to the point, do their best to ensure that there is no sexual discrimination?
What roles or tasks in society do you think women cannot or should not do because they are women? Do you have issues with women being in positions of power? Is that it?
Lets just say, for argument's sake, that you have a sister who decides to become an engineer. Would you advise her against it because she is a woman and heaven forbid a woman step outside of your preconceived and sexist, cave man like notions of roles of women in society?
So you believe in forms of sexist segregation? Wonderful!in practice both societies suffer from problems, but the islamic model of "segregation for optimization" is the theoretically perfect one. (because it's from god)
Can you please explain to me how and why it is perfect? Because the whole "it's from God" doesn't quite cut it in the modern world. It might have had we been living in a period where education and reasoning was at a low point and we were hunting mammoths with spears, but we have moved on quite a bit from those days where gender roles were so defined.
Big Chiller
Registered Senior Member
Care to provide a verse or two in support of your argument. Aside from that men and women are definitely not equal in the Bible.
...thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16
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