Sure you wasn't debating the Bible and it's influence over modern western secular laws?.
The Holy Quran
- Thread starter EmptyForceOfChi
- Start date
Sure you wasn't debating the Bible and it's influence over modern western secular laws?.
That also applies.
So which Surah and ayaat of the Quran are you discussing.
You tell me. Which parts condemn homosexuals to death?
You said you were talking about it, I wasn't. Give me the Surah and ayaat and I wil explain to you what it means.
I was wondering about the Quranic basis for oppressive laws against human rights in Islamic regimes, if you don't want to defend them, I sympathize with you.
Would you present a Quranic verse from the OP source Jannah.org to me for discussion. Show me which Ayaat you are refering too.
I was talking about the practice of putting gays to death in Muslim regimes. Are you saying this isn't a proper interpretation of Islam?
Yes it is an interpretation of Abrahamic Law.
I do believe
We are on topic. and let me you, the only time in my life a man told me he was in love with me was a muslim student so they have the same problems than other people, he did tell me he believed you dont have an homosexual contact unless during the contact you penetrate the other or let the other to penetrate you, everything else is a friendly contact he really believed that and I chose to be heterosexual let me think' yea in the hospital when I was borne.
We are on topic. and let me you, the only time in my life a man told me he was in love with me was a muslim student so they have the same problems than other people, he did tell me he believed you dont have an homosexual contact unless during the contact you penetrate the other or let the other to penetrate you, everything else is a friendly contact he really believed that and I chose to be heterosexual let me think' yea in the hospital when I was borne.
yea
I want to know how they explain that, as a matter of fact in muslim countries the homosexuality is rampant. The sexes are really segregated so is very comun
to have close contacts with your buddies.
I want to know how they explain that, as a matter of fact in muslim countries the homosexuality is rampant. The sexes are really segregated so is very comun
to have close contacts with your buddies.
The only one with a problem is you.
Hey salam
Why you dont post why your own mother can not own property and drive a car in a Muslim country... I should have some very convincing statements from your book...
Why you dont post why your own mother can not own property and drive a car in a Muslim country... I should have some very convincing statements from your book...
putting gays to death?
:scratchin:
well a short answer would be; the whole social structure is different.
"being" gay trashes something that society holds so important it's ready to kill to prevent.
of course i believe there is no such thing in western societies, individual freedom comes first to everything else i believe.
is there a death penalty in america?
What is that thing that they are willing to kill people to prevent?
There is a death penalty in America, but not in every state. And I'm against it.
There is a death penalty in America, but not in every state. And I'm against it.
well this'll be hard to explain if you don't believe there's a crime whatsoever that deserves death[other than self defense], or can't conceive of values a society is willing to sacrifice some elements of its being to maintain.
for example, one i hope has much shared ground; in saudi arabia i think they jail drug abusers, but kill drug traffickers, reasoning behind it is that abusers are killing themselves as useful cells in society, and are dragging it down by their actions and influence.
but drug traffickers' damage exceeds their own and direct environment to others, and are a major source of instability and damage in society, so like cancer cells, they are not cured but destroyed.
you may say why not rehabilitate them? well it's seen by many as a "punishment" that "encourages" more drug trafficking, not scare people out of it. and hence isn't helping in truly solving the problem, while the death penalty is.
I do believe there are crimes that deserve death, I just don't believe that the judicial system is infallible and you cannot appeal the death penalty.
I fail to see what the damage might be to a society that allows same sex adults to love each other.
I fail to see what the damage might be to a society that allows same sex adults to love each other.
Those 'sacrificeable elements' being in this case...gay people.
....ربما كان السكوت جواباً ...rubbama kana as-sukootu jawaaban.
It amazes me sometimes how near religious reactionaries like scifes are to drawing lots for a good stoning.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
The fundamental principle upon which civilization depends is: You may not ever kill another human being, except in self-defense against an imminent threat of violence. The reason is that if humans are not proscribed from killing each other, we would each have to dissipate a significant amount of our time, energy and other resources to simply protecting ourselves from each other, so there would not be enough resources remaining to produce the surplus that is the reason for building a civilization in the first place.
Once a criminal has been captured and imprisoned, regardless of what he did, he is no longer a threat; there is no reason to kill him and every reason not to, since eyewitness testimony is never 100% reliable and he may be found to be innocent at a later date. Exceptions are rare and vary from one civilization to another and one era to another. For example in today's Western civilization, imprisonment of a terrorist may cause his comrades to kidnap twenty of your people and threaten to kill them if you don't let him out. Also, mafia chiefs have so many allies that they can continue to rule their empires from behind bars.
A perfect example of the fallacy of both capital punishment and the current fashionable persecution of recreational drug users. The only reason the drug industry causes so much harm to society is that it is illegal. Whenever the shit-for-brains government (especially when capitulating to the demands of the shit-for-brains religious fundamentalists) transfers a popular commodity to the black market, criminals will take over the business and solve their disputes with violence rather than lawyers. Americans learned that in the 1910s and 20s when they attempted to outlaw alcohol and cities like Chicago became war zones. Unfortunately my people have short memories and now they're attempting to outlaw other drugs, which has turned the entire nation of Mexico into a war zone. Nations that have decriminalized drugs have no major problems with the drug industry. My grandfather was a pharmacist who sold heroin and cocaine in his shop, and none of his customers became either addicts or criminals.
The people who need "rehabilitating" are the morons in government who think they have the right to tell people what they can and can't do in the privacy of their home, and the religious zealots who think it's their job to enforce the things they believe their imaginary "God" wants. Statistics consistently show that the severity of punishment has almost no influence at all on people's choice to commit crimes. Only the certainty of punishment can do that, and it's impossible to make punishment certain without turning your country into a police state like the Soviet Union, Iran or Singapore.