The Gay Fray

[Fraggle Rocker]

All pornography should be illegal.

With an attitude like that I sure hope you're not an American. At least not an American who votes. Whatever happened to the doctrine of consenting adults being able to do whatever the fuck they want, so long as they cause no direct harm to others? The American Right wants the power to make us stop taking drugs, and the American Left wants the power to make us stop eating doughnuts.

Three generations ago it might have been argued that women who participated in the production of pornography were being exploited, since there weren't a lot of other opportunities for a woman to earn income. Today that's not the case. There are plenty of legitimate jobs for women.

As for gay pornography, you obviously don't have any gay friends. (What a surprise.) A lot of gay men are exhibitionists, much more than the rest of us. "You're saying that you'll pay me to participate in a cluster-fuck in front of a camera so lots of people can see me doing it? Have I died and gone to heaven?"

I don't like prostitution.

Well aren't you lucky. There is no law requiring you to participate in it. Ain't this just a great country?

and I don't like seeing women in poorer countries selling themselves for pennies.

Well okay, at last you bring up a legitimate issue. They should be allowed to join unions and negotiate their rates. Prostitution is a lucrative career for many women in America, who can make their own rules about violence, health issues, etc. (Yes I know that not all of them can do that. So let's fix that.) In Nevada (where prostitution is legal except in the population centers) the girls have contracts with vacation, sick leave and insurance, and they get a medical exam once a month. Many of them are working their way through college. If you've ever known a single mother of two struggling with a draconian student loan fifteen years after graduation, you might have more appreciation for their choice.

Even though almost all men would be quite happy to have sex with a stranger, you apparently can't grasp the concept that some women don't mind either. You seem to not be very knowledgeable about women. Certainly not enough to pretend to be pontificating on their behalf!

This thread is about the Gay Fray, so I say Gay pornography should be illegal.

Somewhere in this thread have you presented a logical reason for your position, or is it just an emotional reaction to something you personally never have to see? As I already pointed out (having lived in Hollywood for ten years), you clearly have absolutely no understanding of gay men.

 

[Tiassa]

DoMA Hemmorhaging

DoMA Hemmorhaging
Federal Judge: DoMA Section 3, Definition of Marriage, Unconstitutional—Equal Protection

United States District Judge Vanessa L. Bryant ruled today that the Defense of Marriage Act's reservation of marriage to heterosexual couples failed constitutional muster according to the Fifth Amendment.

The case, Pedersen et al. v. OPM et al. was defended by the Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group of the United States House of Representatives; yes, they are known as BLAG.

DoMA had taken Tenth Amendment hits in federal court, but only in May did equal protection enter the judicial discussion. A federal judge ruled against the controversial heterosupremacy law in a California case pertaining to California Public Employees' Retirement System. The California decision, relying in large part on the state's obligation to equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment reinforced a drawn-out Massachusetts case that relied heavily on the Tenth Amendment to bolster the Equal Protection Clause. Pedersen results in a fairly straightforward equal protection (due process) finding derived from the Fifth Amendment.

The Legal Information Institute at Cornell University Law School notes:

The 14th amendment is not by its terms applicable to the federal government. Actions by the federal government, however, that classify individuals in a discriminatory manner will, under similar circumstances, violate the due process of the fifth amendment. See U.S. Const. amend. V.​

And that's the important point. The equal protection stage is now set. If the Supreme Court refuses to hear the issue, DoMA will bleed to death under the next round of equal protection suits, which would seek to overturn the states' decisions to specifically forbid gay marriage. To the other, if the Supreme Court accepts an equal protection case at this point, it will be interesting to see how far the conservative outlook will twist itself in order to make the point; or, perhaps, the nearest thing to proof of God will occur, and the court's right wing will concede the obvious and inevitable.

Detailed analysis from the legal commentators will come soon, to be certain, but one thing that is clear is that equal protection under the law is now the shape of the battlefield:

In sum, having considered the purported rational bases proffered by both BLAG and Congress and concluded that such objectives bear no rational relationship to Section 3 of DOMA as a legislative scheme, the Court finds that no conceivable rational basis exists for the provision. The provision therefore violates the equal protection principles incorporated in the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

—Pedersen v. OPM​

BLAG is, technically, bipartisan, but when Speaker Boehner sought to intervene in another case, Cooper-Harris v. United States, Rep. Pelosi, the House Minority Leader, issued a scorching letter objecting to House intervention as, with Minority Whip Steny Hoyer, "members of the House Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group (BLAG), who were not consulted prior to this unwise decision". Politically, at least, it seemed rather quite silly to spend even more money fighting the right of a decorated Army veteran to extend spousal benefits to her spouse. So, that tells us something about the bipartisan nature of BLAG on the DoMA issue. As such, there is additional comfort in today's ruling: It's a smackdown.

"The Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment commands that no State shall 'deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws,' which is essentially a direction that all persons similarly situated should be treated alike." City of Cleburne, Tex. v. Cleburne Living Ctr., 473 U.S. 432, 439 (1985) (quoting Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 216 (1982)). Though the Fifth Amendment makes no explicit mention of equal protection under the laws, the Supreme Court has recognized that since 1975, "[t]his Court's approach to Fifth Amendment equal protection claims has always been precisely the same as to equal protection claims under the Fourteenth Amendment." Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Pena, 515 U.S. 200, 217 (1995) (internal quotations omitted) (quoting Weinberger v. Wiesenfeld, 420 U.S. 636, 638 n.2 (1975)); see also Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1, 93 (1976) ("Equal protection analysis in the Fifth Amendment area is the same as that under the Fourteenth Amendment.").


The guarantee of equal protection of the laws, well-established to be incorporated into the Fifth Amendment, "is a pledge of the protection of equal laws." See Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620, 633-34 (1996) (internal quotations omitted) (quoting Skinner v. Oklahoma ex. Rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942)). When considering a state constitutional amendment prohibiting any administrative, legislative or judicial action designed to protect homosexuals from discrimination, the United States Supreme Court reminded us that our "Constitution 'neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens.'" Romer, 517 U.S. at 623 (quoting Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537, 559 (1896)).

—Pedersen v. OPM​

And think about that for a moment. Judge Bryant dug all the way back to Plessy. And she concluded, "having considered the purported rational bases proffered by both BLAG and Congress and concluded that such objectives bear no rational relationship to Section 3 of DOMA as a legislative scheme, the Court finds that no conceivable rational basis exists for the provision."

How much more loudly could she say to the Supreme Court, "Hey, you! pay some freakin' attention to this!" without actually including the words in her decision? And the bonus is the smackdown on BLAG.

No, really: Plessy?

This is a fun decision. The stage is set.

And DoMA is now fatally wounded. The ghastly thing lies bleeding to death.
____________________

Notes:

Legal Information Institute. "Equal Protection: An Overview". Wex. August 19, 2010. Law.Cornell.edu. July 31, 2012. http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/Equal_protection

Reilly, Ryan J. "Bush Appointee Rules DOMA Unconstitutional". Talking Points Memo Muckraker. July 31, 2012. TPMMuckraker.TalkingPointsMemo.com. July 31, 2012. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/bush_appointee_rules_doma_unconstitutional.php

Bryant, Vanesa L. "Memorandum of Decision Granting Plaintiffs' Motion for Summary Judgment [Dkt. #60] and Denying Intervenor-Defendant's Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. #80]". Pedersen et al. v. OPM et al. United States District Court, District of Connecticut. July 31, 2012. see Reilly.

Pelosi, Nancy and Steny H. Hoyer. Letter to the Honorable John Boehner, Speaker of the House of Representatives. "Pelosi, Hoyer to Boehner: Expanded DOMA Defense a New, Direct Assault on Veterans". March 30, 2012. Press Release. Pelosi.House.gov. July 31, 2012. http://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-...efense-a-new-direct-assault-on-veterans.shtml

 

[Balerion]

Stuff like this makes me proud to be an American. Go on, try your discriminatory BS in court. Let's see how well it sticks.

 

[scifes]

Than I.

All pornography should be illegal. I don't like prostitution -- and I don't like seeing women in poorer countries selling themselves for pennies. This thread is about the Gay Fray, so I say Gay pornography should be illegal.

yes me. pornogrophy should be banned. it's a waste of good sperm, time, and a loss of focus in people's lives.

 

[Tiassa]

A Brief Note of Curious Interest

A Brief Note of Curious Interest
(Includes minor spoiler material related to the Darker Than Black: Gemini of the Meteor anime series.)

Lately I've been watching the Darker Than Black anime. Recommendations are not my purpose here.

The sequel, called Gemini of the Meteor includes the best transvestite character ever. And here's the thing about the criteria there: Certes, there are a plethora of interesting, funny, flamboyant trans running through cinema, but recently I encountered a brief note in an article somewhere about some writer or director complaining that there are no "real" LGBT characters in television and movies. It's a subtle complaint, but not inaccurate; the underlying question is whether the characteristic or stereotypical markers are merely character quirks or defining attributes, and far too often, even in good LGBT works, the stereotypes are defining.

But in Gemini, there is a character emerging in the early episodes as a minor factor who is, hands down, the best onscreen tranny ever. No femme stereotype about the voice, no flamboyant melodrama, a blue cheongsam that needs replacing, ill-fitting knee-high stockings over badly shaven legs. Visually, yes, your first instinct is to laugh. And when you hear his voice ....

But Lebanon is a genuine man in one respect: He is a strong and loving father despite any other living weaknesses.

Brilliantly done in these early episodes, perhaps peaking as he and his son mourn together at the final, permanent loss of wife and mother.

I don't know. I've some episodes to go, still.

But here's the curious thing ... as I was marveling over this random bit of brilliance in the story, I thought to look a couple of things up. Lebanon is omitted from the DTB Wiki character page, and is, as far as I've found in early perusal, only accessed through his the page for his son, Norio. Following that link, one can reach Lebanon's page, which reads, simply:

Is a male human character who runs the Noah Ark resturant. He is the father of Norio and husband to Michru before she became a contractor.​

There is no accompanying picture.

I'm not certain whether these circumstances are actually significant. But it is a curious question. There are, presently, only 274 articles on the DTB Wiki, and they are, in the end, edited by the community. Is it just a wiki lacking fan enthusiasm, or is Lebanon simply too much a challenge to the mores of participating fans?

Oh, right. I have a Wikia.com account. I can do something about that, and put the question to rest.

Still, it caught my attention.
____________________

Notes:

Wikia. "Darker Than Black Wiki". (n.d.) DarkerThanBlack.Wikia.com. August 7, 2012. http://darkerthanblack.wikia.com/wiki/Darker_than_Black_Wiki

 

[Balerion]

I'll never understand why people actively search for reasons to take offense.

To ask "Is this because he's gay?" is lazy and irresponsible. If there's a custom Wiki for the show, I'm sure there's a fan forum or three--why not drop in and see what the prevailing opinion of this character is among the people who would bother (or not bother) to write about him? It could be that you're right...but it's more likey that he's a minor character that people just aren't all that compelled to write about. And either way, at least you would have some ground to stand on. This...this is just awful.

 

[Tiassa]

The Obvious

I'll never understand why people actively search for reasons to take offense.

You would probably find it helpful, then, to figure out why you do.

To ask "Is this because he's gay?" is lazy and irresponsible.

Especially since it is not established that the character is actually gay.

If there's a custom Wiki for the show, I'm sure there's a fan forum or three--why not drop in and see what the prevailing opinion of this character is among the people who would bother (or not bother) to write about him? It could be that you're right...but it's more likey that he's a minor character that people just aren't all that compelled to write about.

Indeed, but unfortunately there isn't any thread called, "Why I Like/Hate Lebanon". However, that's a question for the longer term.

Insofar as he is a minor character, he is no more or less important than his son, a late-teen/early-twenties anti-conformist who falls in love with a twelve year-old girl. But, hey, the determined pedophile made the index list.

Their whole purpose in the story is actually interdependent. Neither is more or less important than the other. In fact, they're both comic relief up until the end of episode six, after which we don't hear from them again.

Please understand, Balerion, I'm trying to take your post seriously, but you're so determined to find something to whine about—

This...this is just awful.

—that you ought to be embarrassed.

I mean, when someone looks past explicit statements like, "I'm not certain whether these circumstances are actually significant", or, "Is it just a wiki lacking fan enthusiasm, or is Lebanon simply too much a challenge to the mores of participating fans?" in order to construe some notion of offense to be offended at, it really is kind of hard to take them seriously.

Yes, Lebanon's absence from the character index caught my attention because it was strange.

Tell, me, Balerion, if something catches your attention, does it mean you're offended?

In the end, having finished watching the series proper (with a couple of OVAs to go), I can say that both Lebanon and Norio are minor characters. But Lebanon really is the best transvestite character I've seen in pop culture drama. And in storytelling terms, he's a sleight of hand; Norio is, in the end, rather pathetic, but his father has a shining moment.

(The official answer, by the way, is simply one of an incomplete list; Lebanon appears in another character index page that attends the whole of the DTB project. He just hasn't been added to the DTB/GotM character index page. That is easily enough corrected; I'll get to it sometime soon.)

Of course, given the behavior of the Tachikomas in Second Gig and the culmination of the attached Tachikoma Days microseries, the dramatic implications of Lebanon in DTB Gemini, and the importance of family compared to blood relation absolutely hammered home in Blood+, perhaps I ought to take a moment to be officially offended that anime isn't given more serious socio-cinematic consideration. One could probably write a dissertation on the Freudian implications of sexuality and sexualization in manga and anime—why does shonen feature so many overstuffed breasts? does FLCL count as shonen or seinen? what's the deal with Kusanagi's outfit in Ghost in the Shell? and so on—yet there is apparently some degree of a gap between those who watch anime and those who do such work.

The psychosocial implications of manga and anime are complex, yet there is not much discussion about that. That, too, is telling. Most anime fans I know talk about how cool a certain mobile suit is, how hot a character is, or, at best, whether they prefer one drawing style or another. I think the whole short-skirt thing is hilarious, but comparing the sexualization of Kagome Higurashi to Saya Otonashi to Mamimi Samejima never seems to get past the point of, "Yeah, but can you see up her skirt?" (No, no, and yes.)

Meanwhile, there are some absolutely great anime projects that are disregarded in any intellectual context because, well, they're anime.

There are so many fascinating questions that, admittedly, one might have a hard time choosing. To that context, I should probably make the explicit point that I sympathize, and thus should not annoyed by your lazy and irresponsible pretension to offense.

 

[Balerion]

You would probably find it helpful, then, to figure out why you do.

I am not offended. I'm asking why you are.

Though I admit to being frustrated by people who simply "ask the question," when the question is clearly an implication. In other words, it's rhetorical. You already know the answer.

Especially since it is not established that the character is actually gay.

Considering that this is "The Gay Fray" I assumed the character was gay.

Indeed, but unfortunately there isn't any thread called, "Why I Like/Hate Lebanon". However, that's a question for the longer term.

So start one. Or ask around. Any investigation would be better than implying that Lebanon is being left out of the party because of their sexuality or sexual identity.

Insofar as he is a minor character, he is no more or less important than his son, a late-teen/early-twenties anti-conformist who falls in love with a twelve year-old girl. But, hey, the determined pedophile made the index list.

This statement infers that the authors of the Wiki are accepting of pedophiles. Are you just not aware of how you come across, or is this really as sinister as it appears?

Please understand, Balerion, I'm trying to take your post seriously, but you're so determined to find something to whine about—



—that you ought to be embarrassed.

Mm. Yes. Here comes Tiassa's patented "Ad hominem in lieu of Counter-Argument" spiel. Talk about comic relief...

I mean, when someone looks past explicit statements like, "I'm not certain whether these circumstances are actually significant", or, "Is it just a wiki lacking fan enthusiasm, or is Lebanon simply too much a challenge to the mores of participating fans?" in order to construe some notion of offense to be offended at, it really is kind of hard to take them seriously.

Oh, so posing rhetorical questions for the purpose of planting the seed of doubt is a tactic you are unfamiliar with? I find that hard to believe, given how politically-aware you are, and how you have doubtless chided others for doing the same thing.

Yes, Lebanon's absence from the character index caught my attention because it was strange.

Tell, me, Balerion, if something catches your attention, does it mean you're offended?

No, but raising the possibility of bigotry without having any cause whatsoever certainly fits the bill.

In the end, having finished watching the series proper (with a couple of OVAs to go), I can say that both Lebanon and Norio are minor characters. But Lebanon really is the best transvestite character I've seen in pop culture drama. And in storytelling terms, he's a sleight of hand; Norio is, in the end, rather pathetic, but his father has a shining moment.

(The official answer, by the way, is simply one of an incomplete list; Lebanon appears in another character index page that attends the whole of the DTB project. He just hasn't been added to the DTB/GotM character index page. That is easily enough corrected; I'll get to it sometime soon.)

Ah. Interesting that you had that information at hand midway through the post. (See what I did there?) At any rate, your own appreciation of Lebanon may not be shared by others, and it might have nothing to do with bigotry, or finding the concept of being a transvestite "challenging." It could be that they don't have a history of bad transvestite/gay/whatever characters against which they can juxtapose Lebanon. After all, it seems clear to me that it is how he so favorably compares to other examples of such characters that makes him stand out. Perhaps without all the baggage that you've been saddled with, Lebanon just isn't all that noteworthy.

Of course, given the behavior of the Tachikomas in Second Gig and the culmination of the attached Tachikoma Days microseries, the dramatic implications of Lebanon in DTB Gemini, and the importance of family compared to blood relation absolutely hammered home in Blood+, perhaps I ought to take a moment to be officially offended that anime isn't given more serious socio-cinematic consideration. One could probably write a dissertation on the Freudian implications of sexuality and sexualization in manga and anime—why does shonen feature so many overstuffed breasts? does FLCL count as shonen or seinen? what's the deal with Kusanagi's outfit in Ghost in the Shell? and so on—yet there is apparently some degree of a gap between those who watch anime and those who do such work.

Speaking as someone who has very close friends who are very into anime, I can assure you that most people don't give it so much thought. Perhaps that's where the disconnect between you and everyone else lies.

The psychosocial implications of manga and anime are complex, yet there is not much discussion about that. That, too, is telling. Most anime fans I know talk about how cool a certain mobile suit is, how hot a character is, or, at best, whether they prefer one drawing style or another. I think the whole short-skirt thing is hilarious, but comparing the sexualization of Kagome Higurashi to Saya Otonashi to Mamimi Samejima never seems to get past the point of, "Yeah, but can you see up her skirt?" (No, no, and yes.)

This is true of anything. A lot of people like the Beatles, but how many of them really understand them? I think a defining characteristic of pop-anything, whether it's film, anime, music, or television, is that it can be enjoyed by many people for many reasons.

Meanwhile, there are some absolutely great anime projects that are disregarded in any intellectual context because, well, they're anime.

Perhaps because anime is viewed by many to either be childish, or the realm of the perverse. Cartoons in general tend to get a short shrift because they are associated with the juvenile. I mean, can anyone really say that 30 Rock is objectively superior to Family Guy? Yet the live action show gets all the Emmys.

There are so many fascinating questions that, admittedly, one might have a hard time choosing. To that context, I should probably make the explicit point that I sympathize, and thus should not annoyed by your lazy and irresponsible pretension to offense.

Oh, the "I'm rubber, you're glue" bit? Clever. Wait, no. The opposite of that.

 

[Tiassa]

Giant, Farting Crunchberries

I am not offended.

Ah. My mistake. Reading again through your post, I see that the last couple sentences makes that clear: "And either way, at least you would have some ground to stand on. This...this is just awful.

I'm asking why you are.

Well, you're asking the wrong question.

Considering that this is "The Gay Fray" I assumed the character was gay.

Transvestites are part of the transsexual consideration of LGBT. I apologize for not making that clear, as I figured this was common knowledge by now for anyone actually paying attention to such issues.

So start one. Or ask around. Any investigation would be better than implying that Lebanon is being left out of the party because of their sexuality or sexual identity.

True. Everything in the world is a blank slate. For instance, to say that anime is rife with all sorts of sexual neuroses is inaccurate, as there is absolutely no psychological consideration to be had about the determination of artists to sexualize characters and audience to drink it up.

No, seriously—as much as it sounds like a joke—a friend and I were laughing just the other day about the "worst anime title ever": Butt Attack Punisher Girl Gautaman. It's apparently a story about a Christian virgin whose religious boarding school roommate is kidnapped by evil Buddhists. Our heroine prays to God for help, but ends up getting assistance from the Buddha himself—a magic loincloth that increases her strength as the thing draws tighter and tighter. Who could ask for anything more? Just stand in front of the mirror if you have to, and say the phrase aloud with a straight face: "Butt Attack Punisher Girl Gautaman".

This statement infers that the authors of the Wiki are accepting of pedophiles. Are you just not aware of how you come across, or is this really as sinister as it appears?

It's anime. Borderline pedophilia is one of its hallmarks. I mean, come on. Take Inu Yasha, which ran for a long time on Cartoon Network and is currently out of rotation. When Kagome goes home to the modern era, we see her dressed in her school uniform, a turtleneck and skirt that is longer than her school uniform skirt, and even jeans and a sweater. But when it's time to pack up, jump through the magic well, and fight demons in the Sengoku period? Back into the school uniform. Or DTB: Gemini. Okay, the scene where Hei grabs Suō's breast? Well enough—he's searching her, thinking she's her twin brother. The later scene in which he pins her, naked, to the floor? The repeated manifestation of the PTRD-41 out of her chest?

The thing is that someone has to draw these things. It's not as easy as lining up your actors and taking a snapshot. You'll see it over and over; you don't have to watch all that closely. Kagome, in the bath, has C or even D cup breasts; in her uniform, she looks like a normal B cup. When the Schiff attack the Paris flat where Red Shield is working, in Blood+, the artists drew a close-up of Mao's ass in a miniskirt.

Blood+ #28: You know, somebody had to draw that. At least this one is ... well, "decent".​

So, yeah. There is a question of sexual neuroses about anime. And why Norio is included in the list, and Lebanon not? True, it's most likely an underdeveloped wiki. Big deal. But, still, Norio is no more important to the story than Lebanon; their purpose is to humanize Michiru, a Contractor who uses water to destroy her opponents and compulsively bakes cakes as the price of her power.

Really. That's the thing: He's no more important than Lebanon.

So, sure. The question exists.

DTB Gemini #4: Norio confesses his love to Suō (top); Lebanon gives good advice (bottom).
And yes, that's Midol and tampons on the bar.​

And, indeed, the question is likely answered. The character index can be updated, and the character profile expanded. But as long as you're in for questions: If it was you writing the wiki entries, why would you mention Norio's crush on Suō, but omit Lebanon's reactionary transvestism and his kindness toward the girl?

I mean, sure, I get your point: "This statement infers that the authors of the Wiki are accepting of pedophiles." But it also seems to overlook elements inherently on the table. That is to say, figuring out what's going on in anime-world isn't a blank-slate proposition. So tell me, why would you, if you made such a choice, lead Norio's entry with the inappropriate crush on a young girl, but omit any real definition of Lebanon's role? I mean, come on. He runs a restaurant, is Norio's father, and was married to Michiru.

What, that's it? No mention of his kindness toward Suō? No mention of how his wife's transformation affected him? At the very least, we know that Norio has a crush on Suō, acted like a jerk when we first met him in the story, but is actually a very caring person who loves his family.

Come on. Tabula rasa? Sure, your point is well taken. But I don't give anime in general, or a specific anime with recognizable sexual undertones that sort of blank slate. Give me a break, man; nothing exists in a vacuum.

Mm. Yes. Here comes Tiassa's patented "Ad hominem in lieu of Counter-Argument" spiel. Talk about comic relief...

I'll remember that one for the next time we see Balerion's hack imitation "make up some reason to be offended instead of actually having anything worthwhile to say" spiel. And, unfortunately, it's not funny.

Oh, so posing rhetorical questions for the purpose of planting the seed of doubt is a tactic you are unfamiliar with? I find that hard to believe, given how politically-aware you are, and how you have doubtless chided others for doing the same thing.

I would find it hard to believe that you are unfamiliar with the idea of projecting onto someone else in order to invent an otherwise useless critique.

No, but raising the possibility of bigotry without having any cause whatsoever certainly fits the bill.

One must presuppose a blank slate in order to assert no cause.

The virtual incest subplot in .hack//sign? The whole "harem/reverse harem" genre set? I mean, come on. Harem anime is widely acknowledged to be vapid, but it is also immensely popular. What gives? I would assert that it is impossible to look at issues of sexuality and sexualization in anime without acknowledging that there are standing issues of sexuality and sexualization in anime.

(See what I did there?)

Depends on what feat you're claiming. Jumping to useless conclusions in order to foster your running disdain toward me? Blind cynicism?

At any rate, your own appreciation of Lebanon may not be shared by others, and it might have nothing to do with bigotry, or finding the concept of being a transvestite "challenging."

Indeed; as implied by the larger consideration of anime's lack of respect in a psychosocial cinematic consideration, we should not be surprised if the audience looks past something like this. Getting a peek at Mamimi's panties, or marveling at Rangiku's outsized breasts is far more important. Or, that is to say—

It could be that they don't have a history of bad transvestite/gay/whatever characters against which they can juxtapose Lebanon. After all, it seems clear to me that it is how he so favorably compares to other examples of such characters that makes him stand out. Perhaps without all the baggage that you've been saddled with, Lebanon just isn't all that noteworthy.

—achieving something like Lebanon just isn't something apparent to anime creators or viewers.

Speaking as someone who has very close friends who are very into anime, I can assure you that most people don't give it so much thought. Perhaps that's where the disconnect between you and everyone else lies.

And yet, there is nothing to be learned from the priorities of an audience?

That is, after all, an inherent demand of your blank-slate approach.

This is true of anything. A lot of people like the Beatles, but how many of them really understand them? I think a defining characteristic of pop-anything, whether it's film, anime, music, or television, is that it can be enjoyed by many people for many reasons.

I have participated in and witnessed many fine discussions of subtler implications about Rubber Soul or Blade Runner. Perhaps only a few people "understand" such issues, but by that measure, it would seem such consideration is absent entirely from anime.

This point would support the suggestion that we cannot regard issues of sexuality and sexualization within a given anime project as a complete blank-slate consideration.

Perhaps because anime is viewed by many to either be childish, or the realm of the perverse. Cartoons in general tend to get a short shrift because they are associated with the juvenile. I mean, can anyone really say that 30 Rock is objectively superior to Family Guy? Yet the live action show gets all the Emmys.

I'm not sure whether to make the joke about the fact that they are Emmys or point out the five Emmys and plethora of other awards Family Guy has won.

True, though, cartoons are generally looked upon in mainstream criticism as inferior to canned sitcoms; I wouldn't deny that.

Every once in a while, though, you will hear a discussion of anime trying very hard to be intellectual. Artificial intelligence seems to be the big one. Of course, it's mostly a reiteration of the Blade Runner discussion, and probably wouldn't come about without Motoko Kusanagi. It's worth noting, of course, that anime has become self-referential:

Haru: What's he talking about?

Naota: He wrote a whole book about the deep mysteries of EVA.

Haru: Ev-what?

(FLCL)​

Oh, the "I'm rubber, you're glue" bit? Clever. Wait, no. The opposite of that.

I'm always amused by the phenomenon of someone getting their nose bent out of shape when someone tries to speak their language.

All you've managed to establish is that your post was lazy and irresponsible. Nothing exists in a vacuum. It's 2012; a well-defined artistic and cultural phenomenon does not get a blank slate—that is, it is lazy and irresponsible to ignore a definition in order to pretend that something is undefined.

But it is, in the end, a fun digression. I very much enjoy your childish dishonesty, like, "I am not offended." Come on, man. Bullshit. You went looking for a gunfight and found out it really was a rancid sausage in your pocket.

Life goes on. The Universe you describe seems thick with muzak and boobahs.

I would hope there is something more to it than elevator music and giant, farting crunchberries.

 

[Tiassa]

One Year Out

One Year Out
First review of DADT repeal finds no overall negative impact

"In balance, DADT repeal has enhanced the military's ability to pursue its mission." —Belkin et al.​

The Palm Center has released the first detailed study of how the repeal of "Don't Ask/Don't Tell" homophobia policy in the United States Armed Services affects readiness and morale. Led by the Palm Center's Dr. Aaron Belkin, the study's authors include professors and personnel from the U.S. Military Academy, Air Force Academy, naval Academy, Marine Corps War College, Columbia University, and the University of Maryland.

The basic findings:

1. The repeal of DADT has had no overall negative impact on military readiness or its component dimensions, including cohesion, recruitment, retention, assaults, harassment or morale.

2. A comparison of 2011 pre-repeal and 2012 post-repeal survey data shows that service members reported the same level of military readiness after DADT repeal as before it.

3. Even in those units that included openly LGB service members, and that consequently should have been the most likely to experience a drop in cohesion as a result of repeal, cohesion did not decline after the new policy of open service was put into place. In fact, greater openness and honesty resulting from repeal seem to have promoted increased understanding, respect and acceptance.

4. Recruitment was unaffected by the repeal of DADT. In an era when enlistment standards are tightening, service-wide recruitment has remained robust.

5. Retention was unaffected by the repeal of DADT. There was no mass exodus of military members as a result of repeal, and there were only two verifiable resignations linked to the policy change, both military chaplains. Service members were as likely to say that they plan to re-enlist after DADT repeal as was the case pre-repeal.

6. DADT repeal has not been responsible for any new wave of violence or physical abuse among service members. The policy change appears to have enabled some LGB service members to resolve disputes around harassment and bias in ways that were not possible prior to repeal.

7. Service-wide data indicate that overall, force morale did not decrease as a result of the new policy, although repeal produced a decline in individual morale for some service members who personally opposed the policy change and boosted individual morale for others.

8. There was no wave of mass disclosures of sexual orientation after repeal, and a minority of heterosexual service members reported in an independent survey that, after repeal, someone in their unit disclosed being LGB or that an LGB service member joined their unit.

9. Some military members have complained of downsides that followed from the policy change, but others identified upsides, and in no case did negative consequences outweigh benefits. In balance, DADT repeal has enhanced the military's ability to pursue its mission.

10. The findings of this study are consistent with the reported assessments of repeal by military leadership including President Barack Obama, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey and Marine Corps Commandant James Amos.

11. The findings of this study are consistent with the extensive literature on foreign militaries, which shows uniformly that readiness did not decline after foreign armed forces allowed LGB troops to serve openly.

12. As positive reports about DADT repeal emerged in the media, repeal opponents who predicted that open service would compromise readiness have adjusted their forecasts by emphasizing the possibility of long-term damage that will only become apparent in the future rather than identifiable consequences in the short-term.

(pp. 4-5)​

There are some gems in the study report text, such as the section on readiness.

• An Army Ranger told the study authors that DADT repeal "didn't change anything", explaining, "We've got a guy in the unit who is gay. We've been working together for years and everyone knew, but no one ever cared. For us it's all about whether or not you're good at your job ... it's all about quiet professionalism, not about your sexual orientation."

• An Air Force pilot said he couldn't really assess the repeal because, "I honestly haven't noticed any difference at all from before the repeal to now."

• A Navy officer said he looks at repeal like "a non-event". A submariner also used the phrase "non-event", that he doesn't remember. "They've been serving with us forever," he said of his homosexual fellows, "now they are going to be allowed to be more open about it. This doesn't change anything with the crew."

• The study authors assert, "Even heterosexual service members who oppose DADT repeal acknowledged to us that the new policy has not undermined readiness."

• A sergeant in the Army National Guard said there "was not much of a transition". A Navy SEAL who is not a personal fan of DADT repeal simply said, "We're professional; we do what we've done in the past, make the work environment professional."

• A gay naval Academy professor told the study authors that before repeal his colleagues seemed to think "the change would be a non-event for the most part and I get the sense that's what people think has happened."

• And the term comes up again from Col. Stephen J. Gerras (ret.), who teaches at the U.S. Army War College. He had invited a speaker to class who happens to be gay, and was actually surprised when this caused nary a ripple of scandal. "But maybe that's all part of the storyline," he suggested, "which is, thus far, it seems to be a non-event."

• A Naval War College professor explained, "Today's field-grade officers know the troops don't care, for the most part." He also says he has seen no indication that DADT repeal is worrying anyone.

• Col. George Reed (ret.), of the Army War College, described "a big resounding silence after repeal".

• An Air Force Academy professor called the smooth transition "almost eerie", saying, "I knew this was not going to be an issue, but I was somewhat amazed about just how much of a non-issue it was."​

And so on.

It would seem that after all the right-wing doomsaying, the repeal of Don't Ask/Don't Tell has been something of a success.

A gay Naval Academy midshipman reported that, after repeal, discussing his sexual orientation was no longer a career-ending offense, and in fact brought out the protective instincts of other midshipmen. The midshipman said that, "Pretty much everybody in my company knows now" about his sexual orientation and "they actually stand up for me" if they hear anti-gay comments. A gay Army social worker told us that he used to have to "avoid my unit like the plague," but repeal changed that. "I kept everything to myself" in the past, he said. "I can be one person now," no longer keeping his work life separate from his personal life. Previously, he said, "I went to painstaking lengths to keep them separate, and I don't do that anymore. I go out with my co-workers. So for me it helps so I'm actually part of the unit where I don't think I was before."

(p. 19)​

____________________

Notes:

Belkin, Aaron et al. One Year Out: An Assessment of DADT Repeal's Impact on Military Readiness. The Palm Center. September 20, 2012. PalmCenter.org. September 10, 2012. http://www.palmcenter.org/files/One Year Out_0.pdf

 

[superstring01]

How does the success/failure look for Referendum 74 in November?

~String

 

[Tiassa]

Well, I don't want to sound too confident, but ....

How does the success/failure look for Referendum 74 in November?

Well, I was talking to friends the other night about what happens to their domestically-registered union, and there really was no if about it.

Recent polling suggests confusion is the biggest danger. As of a couple weeks ago:

• Voters favor R74, 52-40.

• There might be some confusion about the nature of R74; 11% of the anti bloc also support marriage equality.

• Marriage equality support overall is a bigger margin, 53-38.​

And, for the record, their particular union will roll over into a marriage, according to their understanding of how the law will work.

Barring some last-minute miracle mobilization by hitherto-unknown conservative reserves, the only thing left to do is vote.

Of course, that's also the most important thing. But enthusiasm will win out over complacency.

Yes, it is that confident up here. Rather remarkable, actually. I mean, sure, there's going to be a party, but there is almost a sense that, well, in the Puget Sound area, it's almost like there's nothing going on. Yeah, the parties will be huge all over the city. Vote early, grab a plane ticket, and when you get in the cab at Sea-Tac, just say, "Capitol Hill. Anywhere in Capitol Hill." You won't be able to miss the party.

But it's weird because everything is calm. A tinge of quiet expectation, but mostly I think even the couples whose marital status hinges on this vote just want to get on with their lives.

I don't know. Maybe they're panicking out on the Palouse. Though Spokane seems to be a hopeful projection too. I mean, the Spokesman-Review is behind the measure; the guest opinion pro and con, though I'm having trouble calling up the articles, seems to be, believe it or not, a clergy discussion with the Lutheran (pro) against the Catholic (con).

So, yeah. King, Pierce, Snohomish, Spokane? With majorities in those counties, it will be very nearly over. Kitsap is probably a majority, too.

Perhaps it is significant that I'm not even tracking the issue closely, much less pushing it in any specific manner. That is how comfortable its getting. The argument is won; the last thing to do is make sure people get out to vote.
____________________

Notes:

Israel, Josh. "New WA Poll Shows Growing Majority Support Marriage Equality". ThinkProgress. September 18, 2012. ThinkProgress.org. September 26, 2012. http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/...s-growing-majority-support-marriage-equality/

 

[Asguard]

ANTI-GAY CANDIDATE CAUSES ACT ELECTION STORM
AUTHOR // Serkan Ozturk
CATEGORIES // News + Politics | National | ACT | New South Wales | Northern Territory | Queensland | South Australia | Tasmania | Victoria | Western Australia

A little-known former Liberal Party member running as an independent in next month’s ACT elections has become a talking point for both major parties after calling for the re-criminalisation of homosexual sex and for the right to discriminate against gay people.

Contesting the Molonglo electorate at the October 20 territory ballot, Philip Pocock, a consultant psychologist who has been in practice for 12 years and offers treatment for depression as well as relationship and sexual problems, has also put mental health professionals offside with the Australian Psychological Society (APS) distancing itself from his views which include “rules” on pre-marital sex, infidelity, divorce, oral sex and masturbation.

Writing in response to a recent questionnaire sent by the Archdiocese of Canberra and Goulburn to candidates contesting the upcoming election, Pocock (pictured) claimed homosexual sex was not only destructive but required punishment by the state.

“Homosexual unions not only deserve no special rights but must be seen as the destructive behaviours that should be actively discouraged ie all homosexual relationships by their very nature are sado-masochistic in nature,” Pocock wrote.

“Indeed I believe sodomy of man or woman should be regarded as a criminal offence and while people do not have the right to go ‘poofter bashing’, to use colloquial language, they should have the right to discriminate in terms of employment, accommodation etc as they do in dealing with drug addicts etc.”

Pocock, a former Commonwealth public servant, also called for the state to become more involved in enforcing marriage laws, going as far as to suggest that in some cases people should be forced to remain married despite indiscretions or mistreatment by a partner.

“The man who has sex with a married woman is responsible for a serious crime in that he destroys a marriage although, in the case of a Catholic Marriage, this may still necessitate the partners staying married but celibate for the remainder of their lives,” Pocock wrote.

PSYCHOLOGISTS AND LIBERAL LEADER DISMAYED

Despite Pocock not being a member, following publicity over his views, the APS reiterated its support for marriage equality and the ethical obligations of psychologists when working with homosexual clients to avoid discrimination and prejudice.

LGBTI-specialist psychologist, Paul Martin, from Brisbane’s Centre for Human Potential, confirmed to SX that Pocock’s reported beliefs had upset many mental health professionals.

“There are restrictions regarding my ability to offer an opinion on another psychologist’s conduct, however the guidelines for our professional conduct are very clear,” Martin said.

“His professional website refers to ‘sodomy’ as a ‘distortion of sexuality’.

“The Australian Psychological Society code of ethics also includes that a psychologist must: ‘take reasonable steps to prevent harm occurring as a result of their conduct’.”

ACT Liberal Leader Zed Seselja was forced to condemn Pocock’s views after the political aspirant suggested over radio that he had been lobbying Seselja during meetings at his local church.

“I utterly reject his views. I don’t think he speaks for the community or any church he might be associated with,” Seselja said.

“I’m not sure I’ve ever had a conversation with him, I don’t know him at all. Whether he’s seen me at church I just don’t know.”

Seselja said Pocock’s views were more akin to those held by members of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

“I don’t think they’re Catholic views. The idea of laws against pre martial sex and the like, I’ve never heard anyone advocate that before and I don’t think Catholics do,” Seselja said.

“It’s like the Taliban, getting into people’s personal lives, trying to regulate everyone’s life and what they do at home.”

CLAIMS LIBERAL MP HOLDS SIMILAR VIEWS

Following those comments, ACT Deputy Chief Minister Andrew Barr challenged Seselja to also distance himself from comments made by the Liberals’ justice spokeswoman, Vicki Dunne, in Parliament back in 2004.

During debate on adoption laws, Dunne had claimed same-sex couples only wanted children as “trophies”.

“This has nothing to do with having children as trophies, but it is, sadly, a comment on the gay lifestyle,” Dunne told the chamber.

“We see lots at the moment on TV about how good the gay lifestyle is, but this is not Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and another fashion accessory – these are the lives of children that we are talking about.”

She then quoted a San Francisco study to suggest gay people would not be responsible parents.

“Four of the 10 are currently in relationships, but only one is faithful to his partner, and he will not be within a year … One is a sadomasochist and one prefers boys to men … Three of the men are currently alcoholics; five have a history of alcohol abuse and four have a history of drug abuse,” she said at the time.

Barr said Seselja’s commitment to equality still needed to be questioned.

“It is very easy for Mr Seselja and the Canberra Liberals … to distance themselves from Mr Pocock and his views, but is not so easy for Mr Seselja to deny the views and stance of his choice for attorney-general,” Barr told Canberra Times.

“It is one thing for an independent to call for the right to discriminate against homosexuals, but it is a whole other thing for the shadow attorney-general to hold such views, particularly when there is a reasonable chance that she will be re-elected to the Assembly.”

In a statement Dunne and Mr Seselja dismissed Barr’s criticism.

“Mrs Dunne and Mr Seselja do not share the views of Mr Pocock,” the statement said.

http://gaynewsnetwork.com.au/news/national/8959-anti-gay-candidate-causes-act-election-storm.html

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

She then quoted a San Francisco study to suggest gay people would not be responsible parents. “Four of the 10 are currently in relationships, but only one is faithful to his partner, and he will not be within a year … One is a sadomasochist and one prefers boys to men … Three of the men are currently alcoholics; five have a history of alcohol abuse and four have a history of drug abuse,” she said at the time.

But that describes the entire population of San Francisco!

 

[quadraphonics]

But that describes the entire population of San Francisco!

Note, by the way, that San Francisco has the lowest proportion of children in its population of any major US city. And the highest proportion of homeless. It is not exactly "kid-friendly" in general, even if you are straight, cisgendered, married, gainfully employed and healthy. Of my various friends who live there, only one couple actually has a kid. In every other case, step one of the "let's start a family" plan is "move to East Bay where we can afford a home with more than one bedroom."

 

[Asguard]

But that describes the entire population of San Francisco!

Maybe but its kind of irreverent, the problem with this story is that he is a) a practicing psychologist who is OPENLY going against the ethics of his profession and causing massive pain to 10% (actually more because there is also all the friends and family of gay people as well who are hurt directly and indirectly by this) of society and b) he is a former member of the liberal party and the question is why did he leave? did his ideas become to radical even for those right wing nutjobs or did they encourage those ideas

 

[superstring01]

Well, I was talking to friends the other night about what happens to their domestically-registered union, and there really was no if about it.

Recent polling suggests confusion is the biggest danger. As of a couple weeks ago:

• Voters favor R74, 52-40.

• There might be some confusion about the nature of R74; 11% of the anti bloc also support marriage equality.

• Marriage equality support overall is a bigger margin, 53-38.​

And, for the record, their particular union will roll over into a marriage, according to their understanding of how the law will work.

Barring some last-minute miracle mobilization by hitherto-unknown conservative reserves, the only thing left to do is vote.

Of course, that's also the most important thing. But enthusiasm will win out over complacency.

Yes, it is that confident up here. Rather remarkable, actually. I mean, sure, there's going to be a party, but there is almost a sense that, well, in the Puget Sound area, it's almost like there's nothing going on. Yeah, the parties will be huge all over the city. Vote early, grab a plane ticket, and when you get in the cab at Sea-Tac, just say, "Capitol Hill. Anywhere in Capitol Hill." You won't be able to miss the party.

But it's weird because everything is calm. A tinge of quiet expectation, but mostly I think even the couples whose marital status hinges on this vote just want to get on with their lives.

I don't know. Maybe they're panicking out on the Palouse. Though Spokane seems to be a hopeful projection too. I mean, the Spokesman-Review is behind the measure; the guest opinion pro and con, though I'm having trouble calling up the articles, seems to be, believe it or not, a clergy discussion with the Lutheran (pro) against the Catholic (con).

So, yeah. King, Pierce, Snohomish, Spokane? With majorities in those counties, it will be very nearly over. Kitsap is probably a majority, too.

Perhaps it is significant that I'm not even tracking the issue closely, much less pushing it in any specific manner. That is how comfortable its getting. The argument is won; the last thing to do is make sure people get out to vote.
____________________

Notes:

Israel, Josh. "New WA Poll Shows Growing Majority Support Marriage Equality". ThinkProgress. September 18, 2012. ThinkProgress.org. September 26, 2012. http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/...s-growing-majority-support-marriage-equality/

I have a powerful aversion to leaving human rights be decided by popular vote. It's the reason why our bill or rights and subsequent enhancements have not been done democratically (or, with minimal involvement of democracy). I've gone from a Fox News watching flaming conservative, to a damned obnoxious MSNBC watching liberal. When did this happen?

Oh yeah. Education and maturity.

But, this being the case, I'm eger for gay marriage to start winning some election.

Regardless, I'm hoping that the SCOTUS takes up the case and jams it down frakking Christians' throats so I can make signs, jump around in my g-string, sing songs and create really obnoxious facebook posts telling them how I'm going to start buttfucking my husband in front of their churches.

Or not.

I'll just be pleasantly happy.

But inside, I'll dream of gloating and making them suffer for all this time that Rick and I haven't been able to marry.

~String

 

[quadraphonics]

I have a powerful aversion to leaving human rights be decided by popular vote. It's the reason why our bill or rights and subsequent enhancements have not been done democratically (or, with minimal involvement of democracy).

? Last I checked, the process for amending the Constitution requires supermajorities in Congress and then ratification by a supermajority of the states.

It's not simple majoritarianism, but it is most definitely democratic. No?

 

[superstring01]

? Last I checked, the process for amending the Constitution requires supermajorities in Congress and then ratification by a supermajority of the states.

It's not simple majoritarianism, but it is most definitely democratic. No?

I guess I'm being a pedant in pointing out that individual citizens did not vote on those amendments and in the case of suffrage, while no polls exist, there's reasonable evidence that it would have failed a popular vote.

Then there are the various Civil Rights laws and sundry court decisions that have enhanced certain rights (female reproductive rights).

I'm just hoping for a more broad interpretation of the XIV Amendment and Article IV, Section 1 ("Full Faith & Credit") to include sexual orientation and gay marriage.

~String

 

[quadraphonics]

I guess I'm being a pedant in pointing out that individual citizens did not vote on those amendments and in the case of suffrage, while no polls exist, there's reasonable evidence that it would have failed a popular vote.

Oh, yeah, deciding rights via public referendum is a terrible idea. This was made abundantly clear to me when CA passed Prop H8.