The Gay Fray

I am . . . .

  • Homosexual

    Votes: 25 9.2%
  • Heterosexual

    Votes: 201 73.6%
  • Bisexual

    Votes: 31 11.4%
  • Other (I would have complained if there wasn't an "other" option)

    Votes: 16 5.9%

  • Total voters
    273
Just because I consider homosexuality a subhuman lifestyle, doesn't mean I'm a bigot. It simply means I disagree with you.

Get over yourself.

You don't think it is bigotry to view their sexuality as being subhuman? Ermm ok.. I guess I missed the how to be ironic and hypocritical memo.
 
But why do you want to help them? What makes you think homosexuality can be 'helped'. There was a time when homosexuality was deemed to be a mental illness and shock treatments and stays in mental institutions was meant to cure them. When that did not work, the scientific community finally realised that a homosexual is not sick, but is simpy a homosexual just as you are a heterosexual. Just as you cannot be cured of being straight, a homosexual cannot be cured of being gay.

So why have so many people confessed to being "cured" of their homosexuality after sexual reorientation therapies? The fact is, tons of people admit to being ex-gays. If you want to ignore them because it doesn't suit your argument, then you're exhibiting the same hatred and disregard you accuse me of.
 
You don't think it is bigotry to view their sexuality as being subhuman? Ermm ok.. I guess I missed the how to be ironic and hypocritical memo.

Their sexuality is subhuman. It encourages a practice that does not allow for reproduction.
 
actually that would make it POST-human (or whatever the word is to indicate more than human). It shows that they are moving ABOVE the sex for reproduction drive of our animal selves
 
Not reproducing does not make you "pro-human". Logically speaking, it would make you "anti-human", because your actions don't allow for reproduction.
 
So why have so many people confessed to being "cured" of their homosexuality after sexual reorientation therapies? The fact is, tons of people admit to being ex-gays. If you want to ignore them because it doesn't suit your argument, then you're exhibiting the same hatred and disregard you accuse me of.

In all my years and travel, I have never once met someone who was an 'ex gay'. You have some scientific proof of this of course?

Journal links? Anything at all?

Their sexuality is subhuman. It encourages a practice that does not allow for reproduction.

Contraception also encourages the practice of sex that does not allow for reproduction. Are you calling every man who puts on a condom as partaking in subhuman sexual practices? What of people who are naturally infertile? Are they somehow subhuman as well?
 
How many couples do you think use IVF and sperm and donor banks each year?

Do you think THEY are sub-human.
 
In all my years and travel, I have never once met someone who was an 'ex gay'. You have some scientific proof of this of course?

Journal links? Anything at all?

Alan Chambers is the president of Exodus International. He shares his story at several ex-gay events and has written several books. He is politically active, and promotes legislation against same-sex marriage.

There's a whole wikipedia page dedicated to it.

Contraception also encourages the practice of sex that does not allow for reproduction. Are you calling every man who puts on a condom as partaking in subhuman sexual practices? What of people who are naturally infertile? Are they somehow subhuman as well?

If the man takes the condom off, he can procreate. The same cannot be said about the gay couple. The infertile couple have no choice, which is why it's unfair to scrutinize them for their disabilities.
 
Exodus International said:
Focus on the Family (FOTF, or FotF) is an American evangelical group. The non-profit organization was founded in 1977 by Dr. James Dobson, and is based in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Focus on the Family is one of a number of evangelical parachurch organizations that rose to prominence in the last decade. A major component of the American Christian right, it is active in promoting interdenominational work for a social conservative public policy. [5]


Viewed 06/02/08 at 13:39

I was right, your views DO come from right wing religious groups. Those same groups that think that YOU should be shot for being a "muslim terrioust"
 
If you ever meet Alan Chambers, have fun explaining your position on how he is lying about being an ex-gay.
 
APA Help Center said:
Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No; even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, often coerced by family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable. However, not all gay, lesbian, and bisexual people who seek assistance from a mental health professional want to change their sexual orientation. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people may seek psychological help with the coming out process or for strategies to deal with prejudice, but most go into therapy for the same reasons and life issues that bring straight people to mental health professionals.

What About So-Called "Conversion Therapies"?

Some therapists who undertake so-called conversion therapy report that they have been able to change their clients' sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Close scrutiny of these reports, however. show several factors that cast doubt on their claims. For example, many of these claims come from organizations with an ideological perspective that condemns homosexuality. Furthermore, their claims are poorly documented; for example, treatment outcome is not followed and reported over time, as would be the standard to test the validity of any mental health intervention.

The American Psychological Association is concerned about such therapies and their potential harm to patients. In 1997, the Association's Council of Representatives passed a resolution reaffirming psychology's opposition to homophobia in treatment and spelling out a client's right to unbiased treatment and self-determination. Any person who enters into therapy to deal with issues of sexual orientation has a right to expect that such therapy will take place in a professionally neutral environment, without any social bias.

Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?

No. Psychologists, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, a mental disorder, or an emotional problem. More than 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself, is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information.

In the past, the studies of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about such people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue.

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of the new, better-designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders. Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting this removal.

For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.

Can Lesbians, Gay Men, and Bisexuals Be Good Parents?

Yes. Studies comparing groups of children raised by homosexual and by heterosexual parents find no developmental differences between the two groups of children in four critical areas: their intelligence, psychological adjustment, social adjustment, and popularity with friends. It is also important to realize that a parent's sexual orientation does not indicate their children's.

Another myth about homosexuality is the mistaken belief that gay men have more of a tendency than heterosexual men to sexually molest children. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuals molest children.

Why Do Some Gay Men, Lesbians, and Bisexuals Tell People About Their Sexual Orientation?

Because sharing that aspect of themselves with others is important to their mental health. In fact, the process of identity development for lesbians, gay men and bisexuals called "coming out" has been found to be strongly related to psychological adjustment;the more positive the gay, lesbian, or bisexual identity, the better one's mental health and the higher one's self-esteem.

Why Is the "Coming Out" Process Difficult for Some Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual People?

For some gay and bisexual people the "coming out" process is difficult; for others it is not. Often lesbian, gay and bisexual people feel afraid, different, and alone when they first realize that their sexual orientation is different from the community norm. This is particularly true for people becoming aware of their gay, lesbian, or bisexual orientation in childhood or adolescence, which is not uncommon. And depending on their families and their communities, they may have to struggle against prejudice and misinformation about homosexuality.

Children and adolescents may be particularly vulnerable to the harmful effects of bias and stereotypes. They may also fear being rejected by family, friends, co-workers, and religious institutions. Some gay people have to worry about losing their jobs or being harassed at school if their sexual orientation became well known.

Unfortunately, gay, lesbian, and bisexual people are at a higher risk for physical assault and violence than are heterosexuals. Studies done in California in the mid-1990s showed that nearly one-fifth of all lesbians who took part in the study, and more than one-fourthof all gay men who participated, had been the victim of a hate crime based on their sexual orientation. In another California study of approximately 500 young adults, half of all the young men participating in the study admitted to some form of anti-gay aggression, ranging from name-calling to physical violence.

Viewed 06/02/08 at 13:49

Now try and find a sorce that isnt biased that proves YOUR point
 
"APA Help Centre" would have to discuss this with the people who have routinely visisted the sexual reorientation therapies and admitted success.
 
Alan Chambers is the president of Exodus International. He shares his story at several ex-gay events and has written several books. He is politically active, and promotes legislation against same-sex marriage.

There's a whole wikipedia page dedicated to it.

I meant a credible scientific source. Not some right wing Christian hack.

This might cast some perspective on his crusade to cure homosexuality. From 3 of his former ministers:

Three former leaders of a ministry that counsels gays to change their sexual orientation apologized, saying although they acted sincerely, their message had caused isolation, shame and fear.

The former leaders of the interdenominational Christian organization Exodus International said Wednesday they had become disillusioned with promoting gay conversion.

"Some who heard our message were compelled to try to change an integral part of themselves, bringing harm to themselves and their families," the three said in a statement released outside the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center.

http://http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-06-28-ex-gay-ministry_N.htm

Hmmmmm..

The APA Board of Trustees endorsed a position statement at its December meeting that opposes therapeutic techniques some psychiatrists and mental health professionals claim can shift an individual's sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual.

The Board acknowledged that there is no evidence that these so-called "reparative therapies" have any efficacy in converting someone from one sexual orientation to another.

The Board's unanimous endorsement of the statement and its passage by the Assembly one month earlier came 25 years after APA declared that homosexuality was not a mental illness and would thus be deleted from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Third Edition (DSM-III). As did the 1973 action, this decision by APA attracted considerable media attention, with articles and favorable editorials in several major newspapers throughout the country.

"It is fitting," commented APA President Rodrigo Muñoz, M.D., "that this position opposing reparative therapy has been adopted on the 25th anniversary of the removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM. There is no scientific evidence that reparative or conversion therapy is effective in changing a person's sexual orientation." He added that "there is, however, evidence that this type of therapy can be destructive."

http://http://www.psych.org/pnews/99-01-15/therapy.html

You should also read the following link. Scroll down to 'Reparative therapy":

http://http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html

Now. Who do you think is more believable? A right wing Christian hack who thinks he can cure homosexuals of their sexuality through therapy and prayer sessions, or the hundreds of thousands of doctors in the US and around the world? Hmmm.. decisions decisions..:rolleyes:

If the man takes the condom off, he can procreate. The same cannot be said about the gay couple. The infertile couple have no choice, which is why it's unfair to scrutinize them for their disabilities.
Being infertile is now a disability?:bugeye:
 
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Like I said, they would have to discuss this with the people who have claimed the therapies to be successful, rather than speculate that it doesn't work just because it's not pro-gay.

Also, infertile people do have a disability. They are disabled from reproducing.
 
No I'm not ignoring you. Kids are up and wanting play time. I'll have to switch to my own computer.. my husband's computer appears to be doing something funny with links :shrug:..

I'll be back later to sort it out..
 
kadark, why?

What every happened to the ethical principles of AUTONAMY????

it isnt concidered a mental illness its concidered to be a caricter trait i would guess.

lets forget gender for a second and look at other sexual prefferences. I HATE blonds, i find them to be the most unatractive group of people in the world. I LOVE red heads they are apsolutly gorgious. Now why should MY sexual prefference for red heads be made Law. Should all blonds be killed? should there be a law that a) outlaws blond hair dye and b) forces blonds to dye there hair red to please ME?

No there shouldn't.

It breaches the principles of autonomy, non-malfecance and justice. The same is true of gays, they have as much right to do what makes them happy and be surported in that by sociaty and goverment as anyone else

Hair color? We're talking about gender, and nature has made it quite clear that MALE AND FEMALE are meant to be. You like redheads? Good for you, but they are still FEMALES that's what matters.
 
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