The Few and the Many: On Death and Culpability

[lucifers angel]

Luckily you don't have any children with your views. :bugeye:

and thats a good thing, SAM is only interested in one thing and thats talking about soldiers in Iraq in any thread she can!

the fact of the matter is, these perants didnt give the child the medications she needed and she DIED they shoudl go to prison!!

unfortunatly, the woman, children, men who die has a result of war can't be helped, what about when iraqi soldiers bomb and kill british and american soldiers, waht about when they capture these people and cut they're heads of, we dont cut heads of, they are immoral and not us!!

 

[S.A.M.]

Maybe it is just a reaction to your posts. Any parent reading what you are saying would react the same way.

What would that parent think of their government voting to deliberately withold food and medication and causing the death of 500,000 children most of them under 5 years of age?

and thats a good thing, SAM is only interested in one thing and thats talking about soldiers in Iraq in any thread she can!

the fact of the matter is, these perants didnt give the child the medications she needed and she DIED they shoudl go to prison!!

unfortunatly, the woman, children, men who die has a result of war can't be helped, what about when iraqi soldiers bomb and kill british and american soldiers, waht about when they capture these people and cut they're heads of, we dont cut heads of, they are immoral and not us!!

British soldiers tortured Iraqis to death. In Iraq. After invading the country. And bombing civilians. Still going on. No high ground there.

 

[lucifers angel]

What would that parent think of their government voting to deliberately withold food and medication and causing the death of 500,000 children most of them under 5 years of age?

this is about ONE child not 500.000 children, which by teh way i think that number is a bit extreem

 

[shorty_37]

What would that parent think of their government voting to deliberately withold food and medication and causing the death of 500,000 children most of them under 5 years of age?

I thought this was about the article where the girl died because her retarded parents thought GOD would save her.
Can't you ever stay on topic???

 

[S.A.M.]

this is about ONE child not 500.000 children, which by teh way i think that number is a bit extreem

How many dead Iraqi children are you willing to be satisfied with?

What makes you any different from that woman in the OP?

 

[lucifers angel]

let emt hink then, why is it just ONE soldier who was deffiatly wrong for doing what he did, was found guilty of war crimes, he isnt sending children with explosives strapped to they're waists, and using his wife has a human shield!

 

[lucifers angel]

How many dead Iraqi children are you willing to be satisfied with?

What makes you any different from that woman in the OP?

what makes me differant??

let's see like i have said many times, i GET NEDICATION for my children, i get the help they need, i will never ever take my child away from the meds they need to have a normal and balanced life!

 

[S.A.M.]

let emt hink then, why is it just ONE soldier who was deffiatly wrong for doing what he did, was found guilty of war crimes, he isnt sending children with explosives strapped to they're waists, and using his wife has a human shield!

Hmm so its okay to keep food and medicine from parents and let half a million children die from diarrhoea and malnutrition knowingly so that you can "make them think", but its not okay for one parent to do the same to her own child?

 

[S.A.M.]

what makes me differant??

let's see like i have said many times, i GET NEDICATION for my children, i get the help they need, i will never ever take my child away from the meds they need to have a normal and balanced life!

So if the government decided not to let you have access to food and medicine and your children all died from preventable causes, it would be ok? But if you did it yourself it would not?

 

[shorty_37]

but its not okay for one parent to do the same to her own child?

So basically what you are saying is: These parents should just get away with what they did?

 

[lucifers angel]

So if the government decided not to let you have access to food and medicine and your children all died from preventable causes, it would be ok? But if you did it yourself it would not?

we're not holding medications from anyone!!

and no one holds meds from my kids! especially over some false god, and church brainwashing BS

 

[S.A.M.]

we're not holding medications from anyone!!

and no one holds meds from my kids! especially over some false god, and church brainwashing BS

You need to look at the Iraq sanctions again, since the UK signed off on them. Definitely witholding food and medicine, even after the doctors kept asking for medicines and showing them figures of how many children were dying. I wonder what you would do if it were your children under those conditions?

So tell me why you support your government killing half a million children but get so worked up over one ignorant mother?

 

[lucifers angel]

You need to look at the Iraq sanctions again, since the UK signed off on them. Definitely witholding food and medicine, even after the doctors kept asking for medicines and showing them figures of how many children were dying. I wonder what you would do if it were your children under those conditions?

So tell me why you support your government killing half a million children but get so worked up over one ignorant mother?

let me ask you, why do you support those people who behead people?

why do you support men who tie explosives to they're children, use they're wives has human shields?

you know it wasnt all UK's and America's fault this war you know! i cuts both ways!!

 

[S.A.M.]

let me ask you, why do you support those people who behead people?

why do you support men who tie explosives to they're children, use they're wives has human shields?

you know it wasnt all UK's and America's fault this war you know! i cuts both ways!!

So you are saying its okay to kill 500,000 children because you don't like their society?

So why get worked up over an ignorant mother?

 

[spidergoat]

SAM is presenting a false choice. Given the situation in Iraq before Bush's invasion (which I do not agree with), we were left with a selection of bad choices:

1. Do nothing, which could lead to Saddam rebuilding the WMD's we destroyed and made him destroy after the first Gulf War, which could lead to massive deaths if he were to use them as he did in the past. Deaths=bad, but no US blame.

2. Sanctions, which would prevent Saddam from attaining the dual use products used to make WMD's. The disadvantage of this is greater child mortality than usual. Deaths=bad.

3. No sanctions, but weapons inspections. (my preferred course of action). This would leave Saddam to kill his own people, but SAM wouldn't be able to blame us for that (or would she?). Deaths=bad.

4. Invasion. This would get rid of Saddam, but inevitably kill many civilians, as most military action does. Deaths=bad.

 

[S.A.M.]

SAM is presenting a false choice. Given the situation in Iraq before Bush's invasion (which I do not agree with), we were left with a selection of bad choices:

1. Do nothing, which could lead to Saddam rebuilding the WMD's we destroyed and made him destroy after the first Gulf War, which could lead to massive deaths if he were to use them as he did in the past. Deaths=bad.

2. Sanctions, which would prevent Saddam from attaining the dual use products used to make WMD's. The disadvantage of this is greater child mortality than usual. Deaths=bad.

3. No sanctions, but weapons inspections. (my preferred course of action). This would leave Saddam to kill his own people, but SAM wouldn't be able to blame us for that (or would she?). Deaths=bad.

4. Invasion. This would get rid of Saddam, but inevitably kill many civilians, as most military action does. Deaths=bad.

So you're saying, when in doubt, its okay to continue with policies that result in children continuing to die?

In that case, the mother saved her childs soul and her own, based on what she knew at the time. Was that the better choice?

 

[spidergoat]

Yes, if that choice is intended to prevent a greater number of deaths from occurring. You fail to point out that most of the deaths from sanctions were the result of things like dirty drinking water and lack of power infrastructure, while Saddam rested comfortably in his palaces. Chlorine would have cleaned the water, but you must know it is also a dangerous chemical when used in certain ways.

What is the moral choice approved by SAM? Let them have chlorine?

Sanctions were also not a US decision, but a UN decision. This was a choice by the international community.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, if that choice is intended to prevent a greater number of deaths from occurring. You fail to point out that most of the deaths from sanctions were the result of things like dirty drinking water and lack of power infrastructure, while Saddam rested comfortably in his palaces. Chlorine would have cleaned the water, but you must know it is also a dangerous chemical when used in certain ways.

What is the moral choice approved by SAM? Let them have chlorine?

So in other words, when in doubt, its okay to continue with policies that kill children.

Now in retrospect as the mother found that the child had preventable diabetes, the sanction imposers found an amazing lack of WMDs. Like her child, the 500,000 children are irrevocably dead. So if we are charging people for crimes based on deficient and retroactive knowledge, what options would you suggest?

 

[spidergoat]

So in other words, when in doubt, its okay to continue with policies that kill children.

Now in retrospect as the mother found that the child had preventable diabetes, the sanction imposers found an amazing lack of WMDs. So if we are charging people for crimes based on deficient and retroactive knowledge, what options would you suggest?

That supports the idea that sanctions were working. They were not intended to destroy WMDs, but prevent him from making more.

When presented with two bad choices, go with the one that kills the fewest people, that is the moral one.

 

[S.A.M.]

That supports the idea that sanctions were working. They were not intended to destroy WMDs, but prevent him from making more.

When presented with two bad choices, go with the one that kills the fewest people, that is the moral one.

Well you can prove the sanctions worked like you can prove the girls soul was saved.