The dinosaurs.

[Balerion]

jcarl,

Here are a few examples (and a link) of some of the similarities between the Bible and older writings.

The Ugarit Text of Canaan (Palestine, Lebanon, Syria) (3000 b.c.)

The Craftsman to the Gods Kothar-wa-hasis speaking to the God Baal:
“Let me tell you, Prince Baal,
Let me repeat, Rider on the Clouds,
Behold! your enemy, Baal!
Behold! You will kill your enemy,
Behold! you will annihilate your foes,
You will take your eternal kingship,
Your dominion, forever and ever.”


Now look at some passages from Psalms:

“Sing to Yahweh, play music to his name,
Build a road for the, Rider of the Clouds.”
(psalms 68:4)

“Behold! your enemies, Yahweh!
Behold! your enemies have perished,
All evil doers have been scattered.”
(psalms 92:9)

“Your kingdom is an eternal kingdom
Your rule is forever and ever.”
(psalms 145.13)


If that isn't convincing enough, here are some more:

Summerian/Akkadian Text of Iraq (3000 b.c.)

Innana-the Queen of the Universe says of her King:
“He has brought me into his chambers,
To kiss me with the kisses of his mouth,
For his love is better than wine.”

Maidens to Inanna:
“We will exalt and rejoice! in you,
We will extol your lover more than wine.”


This became the Song of Soloman...

“Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth,
For thy love is better than wine,”
(Song of Solomon 1:2)

“Therefore do the virgins love thee,”
(Song of Solomon 1:3)

“We will be glad and rejoice! in thee,
We will remember thy love more than wine.”
(Song of Solomon 1:4)


The Ugarit Text of Canaan (Palestine, Lebanon, Syria) 3000 b.c.:

Aleyn: The son of the God Baal
Shaher: The Morning Star
Shalem: The Evening Star.

“How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel’s son, Shaher!
Thou didst say in the heart, I will ascend to heaven above the circumpolar stars.
I will raise my throne and I will dwell on the mount of the council in the back of the north.
I will mount on the back of a cloud. I will be like unto Aleyn.”


In the Bible, this passage is...

“How are you fallen from heaven, O’ Lucifer, son of the Morning Star!
How you are cut down to the ground, you who have weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest side of the north.”
(Isaiah 14:12-15)
“I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will be like the most high.”
(Jewish bible: Isaiah)


There are a couple more listed on this website, but not many of consequence. Here is the link: Disclosure of the Lie

Are your eyes opening yet, jcarl?

 

[420Joey]

The bible was forged I believe, but this does not outrule the possibility of god ; just that concept of god.

 

[Balerion]

jcarl,

This is going to sound simple-minded, but by faith we believe.

Of course it sounds simple-minded, becuase it is! Because there is no basis for the belief, you must take that leap of faith. The reason it's called a "leap of faith" is because you must jump the gap between reality and the ideal.

As Paul said in 2 Cor 11:3-"I pray that you are not corrupted by the simplicity that is in Christ." It takes child like faith to believe, which is simple

That is the sales pitch of every con man in history. "Please don't be swayed because it sounds too good to be true."

And it takes child-like faith to believe because you have to be unaware of the world around you, and see that world through the ignorant eyes of a child in order to believe. If Paul had said, "Go out and learn, study, and try to find alternatives to the Lord, and you will still see no other option but to believe." then maybe I'd be optimistic. But he doesn't say that. None of the authors do. They all preach ignorance and blind faith. They're coning you into this belief by telling you to ignore everything that offers evidence against the word of God.

You guys over complicate this in that,"Faith is the belief in evidence in things not seen."Heb. 11:1. Also ,"Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that comes to God must believe that he exists and is a rewarder of them who seek him."Heb. 11:6.

This is another way that the authors offer no alternative to God. They say "Well, you cannot please the lord without believing in him without evidence." It's a brainwashing tool, jcarl, why can't you see that? According to this guy, you cannot find God until AFTER you have decided to believe in him! "...for he that comes to God must believe that he exists..." it's right there in black and white!

This isn't overcomplicating; it's just taking the "Dumbass" helmet off and letting you run around the real world. Do you see how you run from things that argue against the validity of the Bible, and claim that we overcomplicate it? What is that? I'll tell you: It's the words of a man who is comfortable in his belief, and once he begins to see something ELSE that makes more sense, he curls up in the fetal position and cries.

you take it as faith, as said before. That's a fundamental platform of Christianity.

But how circular is the logic behind "Believe before you search?" See, before you can get on the platform, you have to buy into the idea, so if you already have the blinders on, the words in the book are going to fit perfectly. Do you see how backwards that is?

The sun did not have to have been created by any being or entity, but you miss that and say "It HAD to have been."

I find it hard to believe that it just popped into being.

It didn't.

After studying other stars, scientists believe that the sun started out as a large, collapsing cloud of gas inside an ancient interstellar cloud. Eventually, the cloud collapsed until it became a rotating disk with a large bulge in the center. Eventually, the planets would form from the disk, and from the center bulge where most of the mass was, the sun was formed. The bulge continued to collapse under it's own gravity until the core became so hot that deuterium atoms fused and gave off thermonuclear energy. Because of that, the collapse slowed, and led to a stage where hydrogen nuclei fused into helium, and thus began the sun's current evolutionary phase.

From the start of the collapse, until the dust settled, and there was a sun and a group of planets, 100 million years had gone by. Not a long time relatively, but it sure as hell wasn't "Just popping into being."

JD

 

[okinrus]

JDawg I'm not sure what your point is. Take any writings and you will find something in common. The song of songs isn't really an instructional piece and I wouldn't be suprised if the author used common idioms for poetic songs.

Here is some stuft from egyptian love songs
"If I see sugar cakes, [they are to me like] salt, sweet pomegranate wine in my mouth is bitter as the gall of birds. But your embraces alone give life to my heart; may Amun give me what I have found for all eternity"

"I embrace her, and her arms open wide, I am like a man in Punt, like someone overwhelmed with drugs. I kiss her, her lips open and I am drunk without a beer."

"Hearing your voice is pomegranate wine, for I live to hear it, and every glance which rests on me means more to me than eating and drinking"

Song of Songs "#)I would lead you, bring you in to the home of my mother. There you would teach me to give you spiced win4e to drink, and pomegrante juice. His left hand is under my head and his right arm embraces me.

"And your mouth like an excelent wine"

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by JDawg
jcarl,

After studying other stars, scientists believe that the sun started out as a large, collapsing cloud of gas inside an ancient interstellar cloud.

--SO your saying that the cloud of gas just poofed into existence?

Eventually, the cloud collapsed until it became a rotating disk with a large bulge in the center. Eventually, the planets would form from the disk, and from the center bulge where most of the mass was, the sun was formed. The bulge continued to collapse under it's own gravity until the core became so hot that deuterium atoms fused and gave off thermonuclear energy. Because of that, the collapse slowed, and led to a stage where hydrogen nuclei fused into helium, and thus began the sun's current evolutionary phase.

From the start of the collapse, until the dust settled, and there was a sun and a group of planets, 100 million years had gone by. Not a long time relatively, but it sure as hell wasn't "Just popping into being."

JD

Look, for the sake of argument, let's say that you're right meaning I am wrong. God doesn't exist or didn't create the world and everything else that you believe is true. Ok, what have you gained and what have I lost from that?

Now, also for the sake of argument, let's say that I'm right and you are wrong. Then everything I believe is true, if we follow the same pattern as you being right. Here's what I've gained(eternal life in Heaven with God) and you've lost,or more appropriately what you 've gained: eternal separtion from God, in Hell. That is what I believe

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by jcarl
Now, also for the sake of argument, let's say that I'm right and you are wrong. Then everything I believe is true, if we follow the same pattern as you being right. Here's what I've gained(eternal life in Heaven with God) and you've lost,or more appropriately what you 've gained: eternal separtion from God, in Hell. That is what I believe

... or, perhaps both are wrong:

• perhaps there is a God, but nothing like the vicious and vengeful caricature posed by jcarl, in which case nobody looses, or
• perhaps there is a God, but one contemptuous of those who rely upon fear and opportunism, in which case jcarl looses, or
• perhaps there is a vengeful God, but not the one jcarl guessed at, a God who hates those who worship others far more than those who worship nothing, in which case jcarl looses, or
• perhaps there is a pervasively viscious and vengeful God, but, again, not the one of jcarl's fantasies, in which case both loose, or
• perhaps there is a God, but one wholly indifferent to the trivial pursuits and petty myths of man, in which case jcarl looses,
• or, perhaps ...

That's one hell of an argument ya got there, jcarl.

 

[jcarl]

Explain to me how this description of God is vengeful: We[humans] disobey him, thus we fall short of the glory of God.{If the story had ended there, then you would have an argument that God is vengeful} But insted, he sends down not just a Redeemer, but his only son to die to cover our sins. He then gives all of us the opportunity to think freely(what you guys are all about) and decide for ourselves if we want to accept Jesus as our Savior. Those who accept Christ, when they die they will go to heaven. For those who don't accept Christ, God has to do the just thing and send them to Hell.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by jcarl
For those who don't accept Christ, God has to do the just thing and send them to Hell.

I sincerely hope that you're not a parent.

 

[SnakeLord]

JDawg I'm not sure what your point is. Take any writings and you will find something in common. The song of songs isn't really an instructional piece and I wouldn't be suprised if the author used common idioms for poetic songs.

Well maybe you overlooked my post. JDawg's examples were a good starting place but you seem to take that as being the 'only' time it happens and conclude that songs are not of any importance. This isn't just about songs- it's about the very core of your belief.

From the origins of man- through creation itself, noah, tower of babel, moses, abraham..... It goes on. Everyone you believe was a real historical follower of god is most likely just a fictional character based upon Sumerian stories. Sumerian artifacts remain showing evidence towards the existence of their historical people, (such as moses equivalent- Sargon) etc.. what do you have? Nada.

"... Harmony-tongued Sumer... To Enlil in one tongue gave speech...” a few lines later "... Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it, into the speech of man that had (until then) been one."

Any resemblence to gen 11:1?


"... My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river, which rose not (over) me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water lifted me out as he dipped his e[w]er. Akki the drawer of water, [took me] as his son (and) reared me."

"... so she took for him a wicker basket and smeared it with clay and pitch, she placed the child into it and placed it among the reeds at the bank of the river." Then Pharaoh's daughter saw the basket among the reeds. Later on the Bible says (Exodus 2:10), the boy grew up and she brought him to the daughter of Pharaoh and he was a son to her. She called his name Moses, as she said, " For I drew him from the water."

The first is the story of Sargon dated 2279-2334. The second is exodus dated 1250-1350. I simply ask you to study and research for yourself. Stating you know all the facts- end of case, is really naive.

Ask me if you would like further information.

Look, for the sake of argument, let's say that you're right meaning I am wrong. God doesn't exist or didn't create the world and everything else that you believe is true. Ok, what have you gained and what have I lost from that?

Lost? Is that how you view everything? As needing to win/lose? How about yourself... what does the person inside say? Happy to believe something merely because you're scared shitless to look at all other possibilities and the evidence? Scared that if you go against this possible god you'll burn in hell and be tortured for eternity? How shallow is that? I'm sure if gods there he will know EVERYTHING about you.... he'd probably be pissed if he found that you only believed in him to avoid "losing".

Now, also for the sake of argument, let's say that I'm right and you are wrong. Then everything I believe is true, if we follow the same pattern as you being right. Here's what I've gained(eternal life in Heaven with God) and you've lost,or more appropriately what you 've gained: eternal separtion from God, in Hell. That is what I believe

Well the pain will become irrelevant after the first few millennium :bugeye: I can't believe you actually buy any of that fire and brimstone crap.

 

[jcarl]

At 15, I also hope Im not a parent.

Don't you consider it the right thing to do that if someone does the wrong thing, that they be punished? And if they do the right thing, should they not be rewarded?

SnakeLord,
"And his mercy is on those who fear him."Luke 1:50
You look at my belief so pessimisticly. The whole afterlife thing, a main reason I believe regardless of whether it can be proven or not, is a two-edged sword. Indeed I am scared of the idea of being in eternal misery. Everybody should. But at the same time, I also love the idea of being in eternal bliss. What's wrong with me being concerned about my after life?

How will pain become irrelvant? You can't be numb to it; thats the entire point of Hell in my view.

 

[SnakeLord]

We[humans] disobey him

How so?? I haven't heard him tell me one thing yet. He has mentioned no rules to me whatsoever. In honesty there's nothing to disobey or obey because he hasn't let me know. Oh..... you mean from what's written in that old book that's mostly a copy of older Sumerian texts. Sorry- we can't buy copies of that here in the venezeulan jungle.

Let's say the bible is a 1st edition writing- no copies, no handed down stories. How is it shown to be authentic in any way shape or form?

Several thousand years ago people would have very little understanding about the world and events that took place. What credibility would you give to a person, (you dont even know who), who has extremely limited understanding of the world? If you say yes: Does the same apply for the ancient Sumerians? Are their beliefs instantly fact because they said so? The vikings? The Greeks? Did/does Medusa actually exist??? The minotaur?

Do we have any remaining medical records showing the states of mind of the particular individual/s who wrote the bible?

Can we even state for certainty who exactly wrote the bible?

Is any evidence important or should we just believe in a book 'cause we burn if we're wrong? That's certainly the attitude you give off, and frankly it makes me cringe. But, to do exactly the same as you do, i'm now going to state that i have the truth. {Insert old book name here} <----- That's now a fact. Anyone who doesn't believe in it gets eternity to {something bad}. Believe or perish!

but his only son to die to cover our sins

Several points:

Just for clarification because it's one of the most sordid affairs in the history of mankind.

Was jesus god, or god's one and only son? Is he like a "mini-god" or is he actually THE god disguising himself as his own son, even though he's still him, so not really a "son" of himself.....

Quick question: Is he dead? But... but.... you said he sent his son to die? Oh... you mean the 3 day fuck about where he stood up after and walked off? Oh.... Do dead people walk when they're dead? Oh.... so he wasn't dead? Oh... so it was just a quick show for the humans to make them feel bad about everything?

Pfft. You think you can wash away all of the hardships/the fear of mortality etc by believing in some dead hippy. It's sick.

 

[okinrus]

<i>From the origins of man- through creation itself, noah, tower of babel, moses, abraham..... It goes on. Everyone you believe was a real historical follower of god is most likely just a fictional character based upon Sumerian stories. Sumerian artifacts remain showing evidence towards the existence of their historical people, (such as moses equivalent- Sargon) etc.. what do you have? Nada.</i>
I find it hard to believe that some scribe could convince thousands of hebrews to celebrate Passover and circumsize themselves without this actually happening. Your story of Sargon is also not convincing because the hebrew word used for reeds and Moses is of egyptian origen.

 

[jcarl]

First off, if you don't want to believe that the Bible is from the inspiration of God, then there's not a whole lot I can do to make you believe. Nonetheless, come judgement day it will still apply to you.

Secondly, Jesus is one with God and the Holy Spirit. God is a Three in One to generalize it, just like I am a son, a nephew, a brother, and so on and so forth.


Oh yes: the quick question. I didn't feel it important to mention the Resurrection because my purpose in that was to show how merciful God is. That has nothing to do with the Resurrection or the virgin birth for that matter. Would it make you feel better if I went back through everything that I know Jesus has done?

Better to believe in Jesus than nothing at all.

 

[SnakeLord]

Don't you consider it the right thing to do that if someone does the wrong thing, that they be punished? And if they do the right thing, should they not be rewarded?

Personally i "reward" my daughter every day of the week simply because she's my child and i love her. Whatever wrongs she does happen- because humans "make mistakes". I never fault her for the 'bad' (<--- i hate the way people use that same word for every little thing on earth), things she does. However, i couldn't burn her for eternity because she didn't fear me, or didn't love me.

Maybe you could, maybe god could. But then neither of you would get any respect from me.

"And his mercy is on those who fear him."Luke 1:50

Ok, kindly please give me just ONE good reason why i should believe anything this 2000 year old person, apparently called luke, says? Sorry, is it customary for humans to just believe anyone and everyone? I must be a member of a different species. I fell into that trap once- a long time ago. Some guys i hung round with told me all black people stole wallets. The only way i could be safe was to not go near black folk. I see no difference here.

You look at my belief so pessimisticly.

Yeah, i feel sorrow. Ok, you're young and will most likely grow out of it when your teenage insecurities pass. Humans are funny creatures. There's no such thing as openness in the world. Here's an example.....

There are millions of things i can think of that give people reason to "hide away" fom reality. One guy's worried his nose is too large, one guy's worried his penis is too small, one woman is worried her breasts are too pointy, one person worries about their weight, their skin colour, their birth mark, they have acne, are going to fail their exams, are closet gay, closet paedophile.. etc etc etc yada yada yada Some people worry they've got brain tumours cause they get headaches, lung cancer because they coughed last night.

It's the way of humankind. Non stop panic, worry, confusion.

Tell me a nice simple way out of this mess..

Personal redemption. Personal escape. You will be saved because for all your failings, all your inner problems and fears and human weaknesses you believe in one guy who is there to wash it all away for you. You don't even have to do anything- which is the beautiful part. All you have to do is say "i believe", and that will suffice. Of course you don't want to slip back into a state of confusion and unknowing so the safety clause sticks up to protect you further: Anyone who doesn't believe burns in hell forever!

Now you are safe and happy hiding from your own shadow, with your own invisible protector.

I have never stated that searching for answers, (as opposed to looking for solution in one quick fix), was easy- but it's about being true to oneself. Ask what your inside feels.

 

[SnakeLord]

I find it hard to believe that some scribe could convince thousands of hebrews to celebrate Passover and circumsize themselves without this actually happening.

During the reign of King Josiah of Judah, (around 609 - 641 BCE) all the torah (Bible) scrolls were lost in Israel until the high priest discovered one. After King Josiah, a religious man heard the words, apparently for the first time; he ordered all the temples of false gods destroyed and the Passover to be observed (II Kings Chap 22 & 23). It says, "this is the first time the Passover was observed since the days of the Judges and all the days of the kings of Israel and Judah" (that is between 200 - 300 years). Now this is a time when there is a holy temple in Jerusalem and there is worship and sacrifices going on there. Yet there are sill temples to false gods in Judah and no one has celebrated Passover for generations.

Doesn't it seem a tad strange that the biggest holiday isn't even celebrated when the first holy temple is still in existence? People must forget really easy.

As for circumcision.... You can see it's a real issue with god, (he get's so pissed off at moses he's about to kill him for not being circumcised). Surely as it really boils his blood so bad god would have just made mankind foreskin-less? Or does he get off on watching people chop a bit of their willy off?

Your story of Sargon is also not convincing because the hebrew word used for reeds and Moses is of egyptian origen.

Sorry, could you repeat that in english plz? I fail to see the point- if there is one.

First off, if you don't want to believe that the Bible is from the inspiration of God

Ok ok ok i will i will, i'll believe it all. Wanna show me some proof first?

Nonetheless, come judgement day it will still apply to you.

*yawn*

just like I am a son, a nephew, a brother, and so on and so forth.

Wow, bizarre.... You're a son, nephew and brother.... to yourself?? Don't be silly. You're not your own father, you're not the son of yourself and you sure ain't your own nephew.

Oh yes: the quick question. I didn't feel it important to mention the Resurrection because my purpose in that was to show how merciful God is.

Sorry must have been snoozing.... Where did you show how merciful this god of yours is? And needless to say, of course you didn't find the ressurrection important. It's the easiest way to avoid answering a question.

Would it make you feel better if I went back through everything that I know Jesus has done?

Depends. What do you know and what are you assuming/guessing/being told by your parents/preacher?

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by SnakeLord
Personally i "reward" my daughter every day of the week simply because she's my child and i love her. Whatever wrongs she does happen- because humans "make mistakes".

So you NEVER punish her?

I never fault her for the 'bad' (<--- i hate the way people use that same word for every little thing on earth), things she does. However, i couldn't burn her for eternity because she didn't fear me, or didn't love me.

Maybe you could, maybe god could. But then neither of you would get any respect from me.



Ok, kindly please give me just ONE good reason why i should believe anything this 2000 year old person, apparently called luke, says?

God actually said it through Luke. Oh wait....I can't prove that so it's not good for you.

Sorry, is it customary for humans to just believe anyone and everyone? I must be a member of a different species. I fell into that trap once- a long time ago. Some guys i hung round with told me all black people stole wallets. The only way i could be safe was to not go near black folk. I see no difference here.

Remind me what racism had to do with anything.

Yeah, i feel sorrow. Ok, you're young and will most likely grow out of it when your teenage insecurities pass. Humans are funny creatures. There's no such thing as openness in the world. Here's an example.....

There are millions of things i can think of that give people reason to "hide away" fom reality. One guy's worried his nose is too large, one guy's worried his penis is too small, one woman is worried her breasts are too pointy, one person worries about their weight, their skin colour, their birth mark, they have acne, are going to fail their exams, are closet gay, closet paedophile.. etc etc etc yada yada yada Some people worry they've got brain tumours cause they get headaches, lung cancer because they coughed last night.

How is this relevant to anything?

It's the way of humankind. Non stop panic, worry, confusion.

Tell me a nice simple way out of this mess..

Personal redemption. Personal escape. You will be saved because for all your failings, all your inner problems and fears and human weaknesses you believe in one guy who is there to wash it all away for you. You don't even have to do anything-

It's amazing how overgeneralization leads to totally wrong thinking. James 2:17 "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." Also in Jude verse 4-"ungodly men who turn the grace of our God inoto lewdnessand deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." Works don't save you, but they build up for yourselves treasures in heaven and allow you a greater inheritance in Christ.

which is the beautiful part. All you have to do is say "i believe", and that will suffice. Of course you don't want to slip back into a state of confusion and unknowing so the safety clause sticks up to protect you further: Anyone who doesn't believe burns in hell forever!

Now you are safe and happy hiding from your own shadow, with your own invisible protector.

I have never stated that searching for answers, (as opposed to looking for solution in one quick fix), was easy- but it's about being true to oneself. Ask what your inside feels.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by okinrus
I find it hard to believe that some scribe could convince thousands of hebrews to celebrate Passover and circumsize themselves without this actually happening.

That is solely because you are committed to finding it hard to believe. The history of the species is a history of ritual and cultic rites based on accreted folklore and superstition.

Karni Mata Temple dedicated to Karni Mata, Legend goes that she foretold the victory and success of Rao Bika and the prophecy came true. Today along with her, thousands of rats are revered here. This strange mode of worship owes to the belief, that the souls of her devotees are housed in these rats, and consequently they must be protected and well fed. The intricate carvings on the main gate of the temple are worth watching.

The sole difference between your revelation and their silliness is your bias.

 

[spoilsport]

Here are a few examples (and a link) of some of the similarities between the Bible and older writings.

Pardon me if I'm a little slow, but how does showing that the Bible has similarities to Sumerian or Akkadian texts prove anything except the well known fact that Abraham (father of the Jews) was in fact a Sumerian. In fact, scholars believe Abraham was a speaker of Semitic Akkadian. The fact that Sumerians and Akkadians were speaking the same language at the time of Abraham's life makes it obvious that information was shared between the two societies. The fact that Abraham knew a mix of Sumerian and Akkadian poems and psalms (which he would have passed on to his children) seems to be a given.

My question is, why should any Christian be bothered by the fact that old testament poetry is similar to traditional middle eastern poetry? (and by the way, the site you link to calls it plagiarism, which is a ridiculous concept in a time where a hand-written copy is the only way to share information).

 

[jcarl]

[The sole difference between your revelation and their silliness is your bias. [/B][/QUOTE]

On this forum bias is the difference in all cases. I have bias, you have bias, we all have bias toward our own views.

 

[SnakeLord]

So you NEVER punish her?

Never. Give me an example of something that would require "punishment".

God actually said it through Luke. Oh wait....I can't prove that so it's not good for you.

What makes you believe that? Oh yes, because some old dood said some old dood wrote something because some invisible dood told him to. Ok, it's the only source of 'evidence' you have, but you can't use something within it to prove something within it. It requires a LOT more than that.

Upon Gilgamesh's journey he came across a place with half man/half scorpion creatures.

Because the text says he did, does that now make it a fact?

I guess it does.

Remind me what racism had to do with anything.

I could have used any scenario. However, re-read the post.

How is this relevant to anything?

Humans are not perfect by any means. Everyone has insecurities of some type- the list is endless. Everyone deals with this fact in their own way. Some commit suicide because they can't cope, some take prozac and see shrinks, some become religious. My insecurities are also there.... sitting in the background- raising their ugly heads once in a while. However i can't just wash it all away with pills, with a gun, or with god. The insecurities of life are still there- you just learn to ignore them better when you have a "quick fix solution".

It's amazing how overgeneralization leads to totally wrong thinking. James 2:17 "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

Well then, explain to me exactly what "works" is, in your opinion.

Works don't save you, but they build up for yourselves treasures in heaven and allow you a greater inheritance in Christ.

Oh cool a greater inheritance. So, is there like different levels of heaven? So like you have downtown slums for those who didn't build up these treasures and then you have like beverly hills for those who did amass a greater inheritance? There's something greater than eternal life? So it's like... the lowly inherited bunch can only drink on weekends but the rest get to drink daily or what?

Spoilsport:

Pardon me if I'm a little slow, but how does showing that the Bible has similarities to Sumerian or Akkadian texts prove anything

A) The biblical texts if based upon older writings will not be as accurate as the originals. (See Noah vs Ziusudra/Utnapishtim). IF this guy existed what was his name? What actually happened? Because someone's done their own version of someone elses story surely the original would have more merit? I could write a very good version of a stephen king novel but it's probably a better idea to read the original.

B) Would remove the notion that the bible is the inspired word of the jewish god. The original versions were not based upon this "being" jews/christians consider as truth. They were based upon a multitude of gods. Yes they even had a tree with the fruit of life and fruit of enlightenment- guarded by a serpent. However the serpent was a 'good guy' in essence which would deny the common bizarre belief that the serpent was a red dood with horns that burns people in hell. Look at your "starter of mankind"- Adam. His Sumerian counterpart: Adamu angered the gods and ended up not getting eternal life because of it. Sounds "slightly" similar? So now one must ask: Story a: written 4,000+ years ago and story b: written 2,000 or so years ago. Which one has more merit?

Did this Adam/u guy exist? Was he the first guy and what happened? Did he piss off multiple gods or did he piss off the one and only god who just so happens to talk in multiples in genesis- and just so happens to live in Eden which the bible puts as being in Sumeria between the Euphrates and the Tigris. Either story you read states the beginnings of mankind was in Sumeria- Wouldn't it seem somewhat pertinent to read ancient Sumerian seeings as they were- according to both stories- the origins of all life on the planet? Have you recently read the account of Adamu? But why ever not? He's the first of the human race and seeings as those texts vastly predate the biblical texts it would be closer to the truth/ a more accurate account. Ok, i understand it would pretty much denounce the christian version of one god/3 in 1, but i thought people cared about truth?

except the well known fact that Abraham (father of the Jews) was in fact a Sumerian.

(picture is from my own webspace- im not stealing bandwidth)

Found in Ur, Sumeria- home of Abraham. Here's some biblical text:

"And Abraham raised his eyes and saw -- behold, a ram! -- afterwards, caught in the thicket by its horns; so Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as an offering instead of his son."

So one must ask if this was an original story or an older one that Abraham played no part in whatsoever. As a child born in Ur, Abraham would know the stories, as you yourself have stated. He would share those stories, as you yourself have stated, but is there much reason to then think he was actually the participant in those stories? Had the story of the ram caught in the thicket been told years/centuries prior and Abraham was merely retelling an old Sumerian story? So now you believe god told Abraham not to kill his son- when in all likelihood the story entails some Sumerian dood doing the same thing with completely different gods.

This is NOT just "some old poetry" as you like to pass it off as. We are talking the core fundamentals of your belief- The countless people that tell me the importance of how god spared abrahams son yada yada when it might well be completely bogus. But yet, faced with the possibility/probability of falsehood you guys just shy away and state it's just "a few poems". How easy, how quick to just wash it aside when it pleases you.

So what do we have so far?

Adam/creation story
Noah
Abraham
Moses.....

wow.... just a few poems right? Of course we could go on, (and i will get to it at some stage), and talk of other demi-gods, story heroes etc that have ressurrected from the dead. 3 days in "stasis" and then buggered off somewhere else/another planet etc etc...

Add all the contradictions, the flagrant errors and fallasies and you dont have much left.

Add things like celebration of christmas/easter which are purely pagan in origin, again adding to just how "fraud" a religion christianity is and all you have left is this:

"just have faith."

That isn't much. Damn, that isn't anything.

My question is, why should any Christian be bothered by the fact that old testament poetry is similar to traditional middle eastern poetry?

Poetry?? Wake up.