Originally posted by Aut-postius
But, I still don't see anything more than material concerns listed.
and I can't see how these concerns could lead a rationally thinking person to God.
Yes, you are right, they are material concerns that binds us to this material plain.
What you need to understand is that we are not material by nature, we are spiritual, but somehow or other we have become controlled by material nature.
The rational thinking person thinks; “Why am I suffering in this way, is there a way to relieve this suffering once and for all.”
Then he begins to understand the cause of his suffering, he realises that all his suffering is in only in relation to the body through the agency of the mind, the centre of the senses. At this point he realises that he is not the body, but is the animator of the body, then he starts his spiritual journey. This journey leads to God.
Why not try to tackle these concerns on you own? You already are....you just THINK there's a magical being out there helping..
It is impossible, especially in this day and age, to overcome the forces of nature, materialistic desires and sense gratification, independently, so we require help from God, who is the eternal Spirit, who is not controlled by material nature but who controls nature, and who is beyond this material manifestation.
Originally posted by Counterbalance
And what about those who do not hanker or lament? These are emotional words that will usually evoke a particular response.
If there are people like that, then they are to be considered either perfect or on the path to perfection.
It is not abnormal for a human being to want to achieve; to want to grow, to do, or even to obtain more of that which will enrich their lives.
You’re right.
But how they go about achieving these attributes, is the real issue.
But this is only true for some.
This is where we disagree.
I would say it is true for most.
It is not correct, nor is it honest, to generalize too much. Jan, you continue to do us all--including yourself--a disservice with your broad assumptions.
From your perspective, I can understand what you mean and to some degree even agree, but I think the difference here, is our perspectives.
Lamenting? It is normal for humans to grieve or to have regrets over losing that which they have convinced themselves is valuable; that which is necessary to their happiness. Again, these values will not be the same for all.
But not normal for the soul, in his pure state, he knows that only the body dies and not the soul. It boils down to real knowledge.
In truth, nothing belongs to us, it is only a temporary arrangement, knowing this, the self realised sees no point in lamenting for something that unltimately does not belong to him.
Moreover, separation from God was part of what helped me to stop my own kind of futile hankering or lamenting. Admitting to myself that I didn’t have anything to fear (like a god-force entity/power) was one of the most liberating moments of my life.
In reality, only demons/demoniac have anything to fear from God, so you are on the right path.
I do not hanker or lament over anything.
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you.
Originally posted by xev
Look nitwit, don't attribute that quote to me. I have no problem with your pitiful attempts at 'flaming'.
Then why let the quote bother you so much.
Just chill Xev, I have no personal argument with you, you’ve just taken it upon yourself to be Ms. Nastypants to me. If you think I’m chatting nonsense, then argue the point.
Nelson, you sound like a newbie. So I'll explain:
I think Nelson has been here a lot longer than you.
Jan probably has no real outlet for agression in his real life. To compensate, he acts like a bit of a jerk online. You will find that most deeply religious netizens are like that.
I’m acting like a jerk!
Look at our posts and see for yourself who’s acting like a jerk.
And it is very difficult to hurt or offend me, so your concern, while touching, is misplaced.
You sound pretty pissed to me.
On to things of substance!
That isn't suffering. It's life.
Yes.
A life of suffering.
"For the road ahead is unknown and the journey never stops"
Good quote.
That is the materialistic philosophy on life.
There are those who enjoy the journey and there are those who try to find the end.
Can’t argue with that.
No, the ultimate suffering is listening to N*sync or country western music.
Can’t argue with that either.
Originally posted by Truthseeker
Who said love was only in the heavens?
Not me!
You wrote only one post before:
I still fail to see how you come that conclusion. I think you may have to spell that one out for me.
Not exactly... There is God, Christ and Holy Spirit... but they are not the same...
I think we are both right, this is the philosophy of ‘simultaneous oneness and difference’, this philosophy was expounded by God Himself, in the form of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in the 15th century. It is called ‘
achintya-bheda-bheda tatva. It explains how God is one, separate from His energies, but at the same time within, as everything is emanating from Him.
An English band, Kula-shaker, did a track some years back, by the same name.
By the way you speak with people... mainly the unbelievers...
I speak to everybody accordingly, just look through my posts and see for yourself.
Yeah... I know all those things... I've studied Hinduism too...
Its good to know, that as a Christian, you are not closed to other forms of religion. But I must say that the BG is not a hindu scripture, although it is obvious how you could come to that conclusion. Hinduism isn’t a religion, the religion expounded by God in the BG is Sanatana Dharma, the eternal occupation of the soul, the souls who adhere to this philosophy are called ‘vaishnavas’.
The term ‘HINDU’ was a term given to the people who lived by the river ‘SINDU’ during the mohamadan occupation of Alexander, it sounded like ‘HINDU’ because of the Arab pronunciation of the ‘S’ sounding like ‘H’, otherwise you will not find the term hindu in any of the vedic litereature.
Agree...
Let's forget our differences and start to understand better ourselves...
I’m up for that my friend.
Love.
Jan Ardena/
