The Confused Athiest

[S.A.M.]

But do they really have all these properties?

Do those properties exist outside our representation?

 

[spidergoat]

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Gustav]

Hmm so theoretically there is no difference between me and a rock.

red herring
perhaps willful ignorance

the whole is greater than the sum of its parts
organic vs inorganic

So you mean at the atomic level, none of us are alive?

alive? as in conscious or self aware? who knows. perhaps at a rudimentary level. a memory of a prior state or position.

 

[S.A.M.]

red herring
perhaps willful ignorance

the whole is greater than the sum of its parts
organic vs inorganic



alive? as in conscious or self aware? who knows. perhaps at a rudimentary level. a memory of a prior state or position.

Pooh, I see your subjective representation and raise you a pet rock.

 

[iceaura]

Hmm so theoretically there is no difference between me and a rock.

If you have no theory of anything above the atomic level, no.

Others can provide you with higher level theory, if you are worried about being bereft. But you don't seem to be:

After all, my being a live person is merely a representation of macrolevel atomic structure as interpreted by me.

It's not macrolevel atomic structure, of course (contradiction in terms) and the word "merely" betrays considerable arrogance (I find the complexity of the outer, larger, higher, or more inclusive levels of theory challenge the limits of my comprehension, anyway ), but something like that, yeah.

 

[S.A.M.]

If you have no theory of anything above the atomic level, no.

Others can provide you with higher level theory, if you are worried about being bereft. But you don't seem to be: It's not macrolevel atomic structure, of course (contradiction in terms) and the word "merely" betrays considerable arrogance (I find the complexity of the outer, larger, higher, or more inclusive levels of theory challenge the limits of my comprehension, anyway ), but something like that, yeah.

Lots of people agree with you.

Here is a nice rock with some exceptional human representation.

 

[spidergoat]

If that is marble, then it contains calcium atoms just like our bones.

 

[Gustav]

Pooh, I see your subjective representation and raise you a pet rock.

i can get considerably nastier than anyone here in sci
a frikkin relentless troll

you have been warned

/smile

 

[S.A.M.]

i can get considerably nastier than anyone here in sci
a frikkin relentless troll

you have been warned

/smile

You're just a bunch of fricking atoms with Parkinsons.

 

[iceaura]

Lots of people agree with you.

Here is a nice rock with some exceptional human representation.

Comprehension has to precede agreement. Anyone who uses the word "merely" to describe the difference between atomic level theory and personality is a ways from comprehension.

 

[spidergoat]

There is no such thing as "just a bunch of atoms".

29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit,
it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the
body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this
great wealth has made its home in this poverty."

Gospel of Thomas

 

[Raithere]

Hmm so theoretically there is no difference between me and a rock.

Life is a process, not a force imbued into the constituent parts of that process. Nothing is removed when a living creature dies, all it's components remain. What has happened is that the process of life has stopped.

~Raithere

 

[Gustav]

Lots of people agree with you.

Here is a nice rock with some exceptional human representation.

you lie, distort and misrepresent, what iceaura said, in order to ridicule

You're just a bunch of fricking atoms with Parkinsons

scandalous!
i like that tho.
you appear to get traumatized
at a microscopic level, you sam, are really nothing special

 

[S.A.M.]

Life is a process, not a force imbued into the constituent parts of that process. Nothing is removed when a living creature dies, all it's components remain. What has happened is that the process of life has stopped.

~Raithere

You mean its energy transformed.

 

[spidergoat]

The reference to life is not even necessary, look at how different matter and energy can act. It can be a black hole, where a teaspoon of it has more mass than the sun, or it can be the sunlight refracting off the morning dew of a flower.

 

[Gustav]

Life is a process, not a force imbued into the constituent parts of that process. Nothing is removed when a living creature dies, all it's components remain. What has happened is that the process of life has stopped.

~Raithere

does this "life" equate "consciousness"?

 

[Raithere]

You mean its energy transformed.

No. Actually what happens is that energy stops being transformed. Dead cells no longer metabolize.

~Raithere

 

[Gustav]

You mean its energy transformed.

energy?
as in caloric?

/snigger

 

[Raithere]

does this "life" equate "consciousness"?

A rather deep discussion in itself. My opinion is that it does not. Consciousness, IMO, is a product (or perhaps a byproduct) of an advanced neural network. Life which does not have such a neural network doesn't appear to have any more consciousness than a flame. Of course, there are philosophical pov which disagree.

~Raithere

 

[spidergoat]

Consciousness is a complex information monitoring, modeling, and feedback mechanism.