is Gods love conditional?
I would say no but I think most religions would say yes.
What say you?
I would say no but I think most religions would say yes.
What say you?
The conditionality of Gods Love
- Thread starter Quantum Quack
- Start date
First i would question your premise--"God"
what do you MEAN when you use that term? an old due with a long white beard in the sky---a force, what?
and then what does unconditional love mean? that anything is forgiven. that we are all loved unconditionally. what about the children now getting abused by adults? their parents? are they being loved unconditionally by "God"? if so, why woldn'y 'he' put a stop to it, Or not have let such evil happen inthe first place?
so, what i'm saying is, there is something wrong with the question/premise--for me anyhow. it doesn't seem right. it presumes straight off
We are responsible for OUR actions. when we abuse others, WE are doing it.
let me explain it this way. in our past, A masculinized he-god oppressed the understanding of a goddess. With her, there was no 'problm of good and evil. everything was inclusive within her. death was accepted as being natrual consequence. this was represented in her triple aspect--symbolized by the moon's phases, of Maiden, Mother, Crone. The dark moon is Crone, which includes DEATH...
the patriarchs demonized the Goddess, but ESPECIALLY here Crone aspect, becauwe they sought to escape death--eventually
whats all this to do with your question? well, love would INCLUDE love of Nature, which we have lost due to patriarchal dogma. yet with Nature you have all manners of events, including death. that is love. that things die and their death gives life.
not accepting this we have created an ugle environemt with losts of damaged minds and evil. that aint love. that's confusion. the losing of the source of Love
what do you MEAN when you use that term? an old due with a long white beard in the sky---a force, what?
and then what does unconditional love mean? that anything is forgiven. that we are all loved unconditionally. what about the children now getting abused by adults? their parents? are they being loved unconditionally by "God"? if so, why woldn'y 'he' put a stop to it, Or not have let such evil happen inthe first place?
so, what i'm saying is, there is something wrong with the question/premise--for me anyhow. it doesn't seem right. it presumes straight off
We are responsible for OUR actions. when we abuse others, WE are doing it.
let me explain it this way. in our past, A masculinized he-god oppressed the understanding of a goddess. With her, there was no 'problm of good and evil. everything was inclusive within her. death was accepted as being natrual consequence. this was represented in her triple aspect--symbolized by the moon's phases, of Maiden, Mother, Crone. The dark moon is Crone, which includes DEATH...
the patriarchs demonized the Goddess, but ESPECIALLY here Crone aspect, becauwe they sought to escape death--eventually
whats all this to do with your question? well, love would INCLUDE love of Nature, which we have lost due to patriarchal dogma. yet with Nature you have all manners of events, including death. that is love. that things die and their death gives life.
not accepting this we have created an ugle environemt with losts of damaged minds and evil. that aint love. that's confusion. the losing of the source of Love
it is true that I make the presumption of the existence of God. It is also true that I personally do not belive in the existence of a typical God or should I say a God as described by most religions.
When younger it was part of religious indoctrination to accept that to have Gods love one must Love him. i found this reprehensible that I should some how construct a love for something demanding it.
To get to heaven one must believe and love God....to me this is fully conditional and a fraud, the belief is itself demeaning the object of that belief.
Suffice to say that if god exists his love woudl be immaculate and not dependent on or conditional to being loved in return.
When younger it was part of religious indoctrination to accept that to have Gods love one must Love him. i found this reprehensible that I should some how construct a love for something demanding it.
To get to heaven one must believe and love God....to me this is fully conditional and a fraud, the belief is itself demeaning the object of that belief.
Suffice to say that if god exists his love woudl be immaculate and not dependent on or conditional to being loved in return.
edit: as people who know me have come to realise I often take all sorts of perpectives in my threads and responses.....
and THAt is why i want to know what you mean by "God"....IF it is what has been handed down to us since kids, that 'God' is this all-loving father-figure, then i can understand yours and others total confusion
not only is his so-calle all-loving-ness called in question the Bible, with its zillion contradictions....culminating in the New Testament where on one hand we are to 'love our enimies' and 'neighbours' yet on the other are killin all the 'heretics' 'witches' ANY one who dont agree...more like the fukin mafia
but IF you throw out THAt made-up-by-authoritarian-males god. does that mean you've thrown away the original FEELING of awesome deep felt power
let me briefly explain what i mean this way
there has been a development over the centuries. AWAY from Nature, and ecstatioc communal ritual in Nature inspired with all forms of ecstatic ritual, especially with hallucinogens....TO, dry meaningless authoritarian dogma. dogma which has led to our feeling split from Nature, form our bodies, and from each other. THAT, not "God" has caused the abuse
not only is his so-calle all-loving-ness called in question the Bible, with its zillion contradictions....culminating in the New Testament where on one hand we are to 'love our enimies' and 'neighbours' yet on the other are killin all the 'heretics' 'witches' ANY one who dont agree...more like the fukin mafia
but IF you throw out THAt made-up-by-authoritarian-males god. does that mean you've thrown away the original FEELING of awesome deep felt power
let me briefly explain what i mean this way
there has been a development over the centuries. AWAY from Nature, and ecstatioc communal ritual in Nature inspired with all forms of ecstatic ritual, especially with hallucinogens....TO, dry meaningless authoritarian dogma. dogma which has led to our feeling split from Nature, form our bodies, and from each other. THAT, not "God" has caused the abuse
a perspective that some will take is that "God's" love allows us to fix our own mistakes and problems. As any good parent allows his children to find their own way in life.
A good parent doesnot demand the love of his children but earns it without condition. it is unfortunate and not to be unexpected that some fail to see the simplicity and integrity of unconditionality. not unexpected because most religious doctrine and ideology allows for no such unconditionality.
A good parent doesnot demand the love of his children but earns it without condition. it is unfortunate and not to be unexpected that some fail to see the simplicity and integrity of unconditionality. not unexpected because most religious doctrine and ideology allows for no such unconditionality.
I think that God´s love is conditional, at least if this is the christian or muslim god. For both have a "distaste" for unbelievers. God only seems to love those that love him. But perhaps god is not loving at all, since he is perfect he may know that love is not good, or at least not reliable.
Anyway, if God´love would be unconditional, there would be no hell and all that negative stuff like Sodom and Gomorrha or the flood.
Anyway, if God´love would be unconditional, there would be no hell and all that negative stuff like Sodom and Gomorrha or the flood.
Say we take another perspective.....
God the creator has like alot of artists created something. Sure it's pretty big, prety complex and pretty awsome in so many ways.
the universe, life and everything else.
if he was truelly unconditional, what sort of score would you give him out of ten for his artistry and creativity?
do you love his creation and if so are you oblidged to do so?
(maybe we should run a pole)
God the creator has like alot of artists created something. Sure it's pretty big, prety complex and pretty awsome in so many ways.
the universe, life and everything else.
if he was truelly unconditional, what sort of score would you give him out of ten for his artistry and creativity?
do you love his creation and if so are you oblidged to do so?
(maybe we should run a pole)
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ahhh and here in lies the problem......."love is by definition a set of boundaries'
thus love is conditional according to those boundaries.....yes?
Unconditional love is simply love with out condition.......something very foriegn to most people......for reasons stated earlier.
So if someone decides to love goats and people, that's a more noble kind of love than someone who loves only people? But it's perfectly possible to love your pets - on the the condition that it's not sexual. See the problem?
I really think you should reconsider whether even unconditinal love has no conditions. If something can be defined, it has conditions.
I really think you should reconsider whether even unconditinal love has no conditions. If something can be defined, it has conditions.
I am puzzled.....why is sexual love deemed to be automatically conditional.
By using the word unconditional before the word love does this not qualify the definition of love as unconditional.
Maybe unconditionality is a really difficult concept.....hmmmmm....more so than I thought.
By using the word unconditional before the word love does this not qualify the definition of love as unconditional.
Maybe unconditionality is a really difficult concept.....hmmmmm....more so than I thought.
maybe unconditional acceptance is a starting point........
duendy: First i would question your premise--"God"
what do you MEAN when you use that term? an old due with a long white beard in the sky---a force, what?
and then what does unconditional love mean? that anything is forgiven. that we are all loved unconditionally. what about the children now getting abused by adults? their parents? are they being loved unconditionally by "God"? if so, why woldn'y 'he' put a stop to it, Or not have let such evil happen inthe first place?
so, what i'm saying is, there is something wrong with the question/premise--for me anyhow. it doesn't seem right. it presumes straight off
We are responsible for OUR actions. when we abuse others, WE are doing it.
let me explain it this way. in our past, A masculinized he-god oppressed the understanding of a goddess. With her, there was no 'problm of good and evil. everything was inclusive within her. death was accepted as being natrual consequence. this was represented in her triple aspect--symbolized by the moon's phases, of Maiden, Mother, Crone. The dark moon is Crone, which includes DEATH...
the patriarchs demonized the Goddess, but ESPECIALLY here Crone aspect, becauwe they sought to escape death--eventually
whats all this to do with your question? well, love would INCLUDE love of Nature, which we have lost due to patriarchal dogma. yet with Nature you have all manners of events, including death. that is love. that things die and their death gives life.
not accepting this we have created an ugle environemt with losts of damaged minds and evil. that aint love. that's confusion. the losing of the source of Love
*************
M*W: Bravo!
what do you MEAN when you use that term? an old due with a long white beard in the sky---a force, what?
and then what does unconditional love mean? that anything is forgiven. that we are all loved unconditionally. what about the children now getting abused by adults? their parents? are they being loved unconditionally by "God"? if so, why woldn'y 'he' put a stop to it, Or not have let such evil happen inthe first place?
so, what i'm saying is, there is something wrong with the question/premise--for me anyhow. it doesn't seem right. it presumes straight off
We are responsible for OUR actions. when we abuse others, WE are doing it.
let me explain it this way. in our past, A masculinized he-god oppressed the understanding of a goddess. With her, there was no 'problm of good and evil. everything was inclusive within her. death was accepted as being natrual consequence. this was represented in her triple aspect--symbolized by the moon's phases, of Maiden, Mother, Crone. The dark moon is Crone, which includes DEATH...
the patriarchs demonized the Goddess, but ESPECIALLY here Crone aspect, becauwe they sought to escape death--eventually
whats all this to do with your question? well, love would INCLUDE love of Nature, which we have lost due to patriarchal dogma. yet with Nature you have all manners of events, including death. that is love. that things die and their death gives life.
not accepting this we have created an ugle environemt with losts of damaged minds and evil. that aint love. that's confusion. the losing of the source of Love
*************
M*W: Bravo!
Quantum Quack: It is also true that I personally do not belive in the existence of a typical God or should I say a God as described by most religions.
*************
M*W: This is the problem. In their desperate need to conquer death, human beings have created the image of God. In doing so, they have disempowered the God that dwells within. Then what happens? Societies crumble.
*************
Quantum Quack: Suffice to say that if god exists his love woudl be immaculate and not dependent on or conditional to being loved in return.
*************
M*W: The god humans have created doesn't exist. It's the overall image they wish for in a father figure. But, god as I understand it may have been the dynamic force that created the universe, but it's not a being that loves or feels any kind of emotion, and certainly a force that doesn't judge us humans!
*************
M*W: This is the problem. In their desperate need to conquer death, human beings have created the image of God. In doing so, they have disempowered the God that dwells within. Then what happens? Societies crumble.
*************
Quantum Quack: Suffice to say that if god exists his love woudl be immaculate and not dependent on or conditional to being loved in return.
*************
M*W: The god humans have created doesn't exist. It's the overall image they wish for in a father figure. But, god as I understand it may have been the dynamic force that created the universe, but it's not a being that loves or feels any kind of emotion, and certainly a force that doesn't judge us humans!