The Collapce of the theory of evolution in 20 questions

[charles cure]

You know my absolute favourite question is the one shown a couple of books above:

"How is it that this Earth is such a fit and sheltering place for us to live in?"

But it needs a slight addition:

"..unless you happen to live by a volcano, in a tornado zone, on a fault line, in the North/South Pole, in the majority of Africa, in a desert, or on the 2/3rds of this planet that happens to be water".

you know that is the key question where it all falls apart. the earth isnt such a fit place for us to live, it just happens to be a place where it is possible for us to survive. if it were a really great place that wasmeant specifically for humans, we wouldnt need to build shelter or wear clothing or do anything except lounge around and breathe and breed. did this person think before writing these books or was it done with his/her head up her ass the entire time?

 

[Cris]

esperanza,

Welcome to sciforums.

An interesting thread. Can we assume you agree with the views presented by these publications?

You might like to know that we have discussed issues of evolution many times here over the past 6 years, and although these references give a slightly different perspective they do seem significantly naive and ill-informed. And I am basing that opinion on just the few opening paragraphs of each document, i.e. they can be discredited before reading any further.

 

[The Devil Inside]

is it fair to completely discredit something based on a few paragraphs though?
if that were true, i wouldnt have continued reading your posts, cris. if that hadnt happened, i would have thought you were a narrow minded flat earther. i have since learned that that isnt true.
*shrug*

 

[(Q)]

is it fair to completely discredit something based on a few paragraphs though?

If the opening paragraphs demand you believe in Allah and then spread lies that science has disproved evolution, how is possible to proceed any further?

 

[scorpius]

..
we're not animals because we're too much different from them (although some people are like animals). we have free will and great intelligence. saying that we're animals is like saying that animals are plants.

different huh,so how come we share 95% of our DNA with apes?
and what makes you think animals dont have free will and arent inteligent also,with the way they adapt and survive everywhere on this earth.

 

[scorpius]

THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION has been around for 150 years, and has had a great influence on the way people look at the world. It proposes the lie that they came into this world as the result of chance and that they are a "species of animal." Furthermore, it teaches them that the only law in life is a selfish struggle for survival and to stay alive. The effects of this idea can be clearly seen in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries: people's increasing selfishness, the moral degeneration in society, the rapid spread of self-interest, ruthlessness, and violence, the development of totalitarian and bloody ideologies such as fascism and communism, social and individual crises as people grow distant from the morality of religion

hmm I thought comunism was inteneded to be a system where everyone was EQUAL and had ALL they needed to live well,but then there never was a TRUE comunism ever was it?

later..

 

[Cris]

the devil,

is it fair to completely discredit something based on a few paragraphs though?

If the opening premise of an argument is invalid then the whole argument is invalid.

 

[SnakeLord]

did this person think before writing these books or was it done with his/her head up her ass the entire time?

I know where my money's at

 

[wesmorris]

You actually believe that humans are not animals?
We may be more intelligent (the way we have defined intelligence), but we are just animals. In fact intelligence is the only separating factor between us and other animals.

Not to contradict you in any way, but I just wanted to note how interesting I find it that it's this very "intelligence" that allows us the phenomenon of "belief" in which we can pretend... very convincing that we are NOT animals - even though it's rather obvious that we are. Regardless, belief - as demonstrated by anyone who will contradict you - can make it subjectively not so. IMO, that's freakin wild and kind of cool in sort of a tragic, rebellious way. "screw reality".

Even more interesting to me is that IMO, religion is a meme-type coaxed from the abstract to aid survival via tribal bonding. Humanity does not do well on its own. Cooperation is imperative to the survival of the species. The set of beliefs associated with a particular reliigon serve to give the tribe a reason to work together, and a code of conduct by which the overall group is served. All of this by serving pure abstracts, which are only indirectly reasonable. Consider how the tool of religion has aided the species in this manner, and of course when tribes clash, aided the sorting out of the weak and strong - with the notions implanted by their particular memes propping up their conviction to gain maximal performance.

It fascinates me.

 

[scorpius]

Hello everybody

THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION has been around for 150 years, and has had a great influence on the way people look at the world. It proposes the lie that they came into this world as the result of chance and that they are a "species of animal."

evolution is a FACT how it happens is a theory
here some edu for ya
www.talkorigins.org

for origins of life search for ABIOGENESIS

Materialism maintains that there is nothing but the matter and that matter is the essence of everything, be it organic or inorganic

and since this matter cannot be created or destroyed only changed it must have always existed in some forn or shape =the universe is eternal
so theres no need to posit some divine being creator ,is there?

Starting out from this premise, it denies the existence of a divine Creator, that is, Allah.

so what else is there besides matter and energy?

and what is this Allah thingamajic made off???

Reducing everything to the level of matter, this notion transforms man into a creature that heeds only matter and turns away from moral values of whatever kind. This is the beginning of big disasters that will befall a man's life.

and the moral values of your Allah ,quran is???

to kill all who believe otherwise right?

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
no thnx

 

[duendy]

evolution is a FACT how it happens is a theory
here some edu for ya
www.talkorigins.org

for origins of life search for ABIOGENESIS


and since this matter cannot be created or destroyed only changed it must have always existed in some forn or shape =the universe is eternal
so theres no need to posit some divine being creator ,is there?

me))))))what about consciousness. eternal consciousness ANDeternal matter-energy?

so what else is there besides matter and energy?

me)))))Consciousness!

and what is this Allah thingamajic made off???

me)))))it's been tought of and imagified by consciousness and matter-energy

and the moral values of your Allah ,quran is???

me)))))for a form of social control. for if you can convince people of the glorification of some abstract, you've got em!..theythen become the SUBJTECTSS of it.

to kill all who believe otherwise right?

mePPPYes, that's part of it. create an 'enemy' to further blind that controlled mindset

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
no thnx

((() ))) ())))))))

 

[c7ityi_]

me)))))obviously i know we differ. but hey....dosn't a giraffe differ from a mouse?...orhow about a Dolphin from a hyena, orrrrr...?

Obviously, everything differs. It's like a large color wheel. The colors are infinite and there is no specific line between them, but you can still categorize them. It becomes confusing if you take all, so lifeforms should be divided into 4 main categories: matter, plants, animals and humans.

me)))dontplants consume 'animal matter'?

Yes.

mePPPwhy do you assume YOUR dream of 'spiritual perfection' is shared by ALL humans??

It is not enough for humans to eat, reproduce and sleep. They can't live like animals. We're constantly evolving and going towards some goal. We create technology and evolve spiritually. We want to know things. Animals don't evolve, they are what they are, they do what nature programmed them to do.

me))))))how do you knooooow this thing you know?

One theory says that man is a neoteny and is no longer able to evolve.
If this is true, then what an absurd creature man has evolved into.
Not knowing what drives them, they keep their bodies merely to satisfy the desires of the flesh.
They're all worthless, don't you think? That's what all mankind is.

But it is no longer necessary to remain a wretched human being.

'animal' 'humans' 'plants'----such a limited theory you got their gal

What do you mean limited? I know... humans define themselves as animals because most of them are still very animal.

In fact intelligence is the only separating factor between us and other animals.

Hence, we're not animals.

If you were serious in the theory upon the other thread, then I must say this:
You have everything in you... You are the animals... You just see them different from you... Because you haven't realized you are the same...

Of course. The same "self" is within humans as within animals, as within plants, as within matter.

different huh,so how come we share 95% of our DNA with apes?

There's nothing strange about that. All life is pretty similar, yet things can seem different.

and what makes you think animals dont have free will and arent inteligent also,with the way they adapt and survive everywhere on this earth.

Because they don't do things that humans do. They don't "sin". If they were "intelligent" like we are, they wouldn't be as perfect as they are. They would do many stupid things just like we do. They would wear clothes to cover their "nakedness"

 

[The Devil Inside]

the devil,

If the opening premise of an argument is invalid then the whole argument is invalid.

invalid according to scientific standards?
if so, then the ball is still in the air, as science has yet to debunk G-d.
what do you think?

 

[The Devil Inside]

as a side note, i also disagree with "quick creation" stories.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

invalid according to scientific standards?
if so, then the ball is still in the air, as science has yet to debunk G-d.
what do you think?

It's not the job of science to debunk crackpot theories.

 

[James R]

Esperanza:

I doubt you'll be back, since I assume you only signed up here to advertise your books. But, in case I'm wrong, I have a few comments, which may help to clear up some of your misconceptions about evolution.

THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION ... teaches them that the only law in life is a selfish struggle for survival and to stay alive.

That's not true. The theory of evolution is morally neutral. It espouses no moral theory at all, although some people have tried, incorrectly, to add a moral message to the theory. That is called "social Darwinism", and goes against everything that Darwin actually wrote.

That philosophy is "materialism", which holds a number of bogus views about why and how we came into being. Materialism maintains that there is nothing but the matter and that matter is the essence of everything, be it organic or inorganic.

Matter and energy.

Starting out from this premise, it denies the existence of a divine Creator, that is, Allah. Reducing everything to the level of matter, this notion transforms man into a creature that heeds only matter and turns away from moral values of whatever kind.

Not at all. It just says morality is not handed down from on high by a god. Morality is developed by human societies.

The theory of evolution was proposed in its present form in the mid-19th century by Charles Darwin and at that time provided enormous support for materialism.

That is incorrect. The present form of the theory of evolution is a synthesis of Darwin's ideas and modern findings such as the discovery of genetics and DNA. The theory has developed since Darwin first suggested it. His focus was almost solely on natural selection.

Materialism is a most dangerous philosophy, which denies the existence of God, religion and the spiritual life and which regards matter as the only absolute and supports a selfish world view

I am interested in how you arrive at the conclusion of selfishness. Can you expand on that?

The conclusion reached by scientists and philosophers searching for answers with their intellects and common sense is that the design and order of this universe are evidence of the existence of a supreme Creator ruling over the whole universe.

Many scientists hold the view that a supreme Creator is unnecessary.

---

Your major theme seems to be that materialism means immorality. Maybe we can discuss whether that is true or not.

 

[The Devil Inside]

It's not the job of science to debunk crackpot theories.

if science is used as a verbal weapon against such "crackpot theories", then science should be the tool used to prove the "crackpottiness" of the theory.

thats fair isnt it?
i see alot of "this is incorrect because science says so" on this forum, but i never see anyone ever admit the falsehoods that science has put forth in the past. im talking about absolute statements like "creation is false."

let me remind you, that i am on your side of this argument. i would like to see however, scientific mindedness, if "science" is quoted.

seems objective enough.
*shrug*

 

[Thomas]

i am also with q, and my response to this is a little late in the debate,but it is funny to me that evolution seems to scare most (if not all)Christians so they attack it and call it a lie, but evolution has more evidence right now then christianity (or any other religion) will ever have.


Thomas- not my name it's a song i like

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

to many books.. by to many Morons...

some maybe good and worth reading... but how can we know?

we'd have to read mountains of crap to find one good book.

that pisses me off.

-MT
(thats why i only read.. scripture and technical books... most everything else.. is biased stupid crap.)

 

[Godless]

I smell a drive by fundi! Doubt that we'll see this one back to debate with us. She's adverstising folkes.