The Building of the Pyramids

Moving big stones was an easy thing for ancient civilisations. Last year, whilst on holiday in Egypt, I visited a quarry at Aswan, where the majority of the stone for the pyramids was sourced. There was an unfinished megalith, a 'needle', hewn out of the rock, that they gave up on because it cracked at the top. It would have weighed nearly 1000 tons when complete.

They wouldn't have spent all that time and effort cutting out the shape if they were incapable of moving such stones.

So if you have doubt Ghost, go to Egypt, and see for yourself.
 
ghost7584 said:
What do you use to drag stones weighing many tons up to a plateau from a quarry at ground level?
Ropes and rollers.
ghost7584 said:
Would ropes made out of vines or lama hair accomplish that? No.
On the basis of what evidence do you say no? Have you tried? Vines are pretty damn strong.
ghost7584 said:
Eager or not, how do you move a 400 ton stone gate with anything they had?! Just what do you think 400 tons is?
Well, let's see. Based upon personal experiment I find that I can push half a ton, on rollers, over prepared ground quite easily.
From this I believe that the the 400 ton monoliths were moved by a team of eight hundred bald, pot-bellied, fifty six year old Scotsmen, with high blood pressure and a taste for Nuits St. George.
You may well challenge this on the basis that the Scots at this time were not renowned as sailors. I would respond that clearly they had been abducted and carried there by alien spacecraft which landed them at Nazca. [I shall take any challenge to this theory as a slight on the constructional abilities of the Scots.]
 
Ophiolite said:
Ropes and rollers.
And water. The ground there is of clay. Water it and any sledge slides good.
That was shown in that BBC Pyramid program I told a few pages ago.
 
Damn. You are quite correct Avatar. A wet clay lubricant would dramatically lower the coefficient of friction. We can probably half the number of Scots required for all these megalithic constructs!
 
There has never been a problem postulating a method to move multi-ton rock slabs
ON LEVEL GROUND. The problem is moving such objects up a steep incline, such as
the side of a mountain or the side of a growing pyramid. Transporting soil to lessen
the incline around a pyramid is often proposed as a means of reducing the work involved, but don't forget, you still have to have large enough of an area for those
Scots to stand and pull. What diameter and what length would those ropes have to
be to pull a 20 ton rock slab up the side of a mountain? Where would those Scots stand, on the side of the mountain with terraces built for secure footing, or on the
top of the mountain with VERY long ropes? The ropes would need to be of a small
enough diameter for those 'Scots' to grip. I am not stating it can't be done, as it obviously was done, but the mechanics required are not that simple.
 
If the ropes are made of very many little ropes twisted together they don't need to be very big in diameter in order to be strong.

Nobody said it was simple, but I don't really see a need for aliens.
We can only speculate on how the rocks were gotten up there, and there could be various methods applied, but none is a 100% sure till we find more evidence or it comes to the knowledge of the discussion particepants here.
Maybe we don't know something that is known among the local archeologists.

We still today (as humanity) like to explain things that we don't understand with some divine powers or the new religion of the 20th century - aliens and science as their miracle.
I think that in a few thousand years the people of the future will wonder and question whether we had an "outside help" to get to the Moon, because it "wouldn't have been possible with their archaic technology".

p.s. I've got news for you, ancient egyptians used a calendar more sophisticated, precise from the astronomical point of view and mathematically correct than the one we use today.
Little arrogant us thinking that THEN people must have been dumb. Maybe we are the dumb ones not able to grasp how the stones were moved? Today we don't have bigger brains than people had in those times.
 
Just to echo Avatar's points 2inquisitive. I certainly didn't mean to imply with my attempt at a humorous explanation that this was a simple task. It required an excellent understanding of material properties, mechanics, organisational skills, engineering, etc. These constructions were major achievements, equivalent to the moon landing in current terms. We should be proud of how much our early ancestors achieved.. (Especially if my hypothesis that they were all aided by Scots proves correct. :) )
 
ghost7584 said:
Eager or not, how do you move a 400 ton stone gate with anything they had?! Just what do you think 400 tons is?

Ghost,

The way you are wording this is making it sound like you think they are moving the entire 400 tons at once. Apply a little common sense please. They obviously moved all 400 tons little by little, probably over several years. Now multiply that be several multiple teams, and you can build stuff rather quickly.

EDIT: And like it was mentioned earlier, even moving 400 tons is nothing... (Need to read up before posting.... hehe)

Ditto's on the getting the refund on your degree bit.

Squeak
 
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ghost7584 said:
You avoided the question. [...] how do you move a 400 ton stone gate with anything they had?! Just what do you think 400 tons is?

So you accuse me of "avoiding the question," then when I give a direct answer that is critical, you avoid the answer? :cool:

Besides, the largest stones at Tiwanaku are 90 metric tons. There are no "400 ton" stones listed, not even the gate. The site isn't on a plataeu, there isn't a restricting path, and the grounds around the site are/were very fertile. Agriculture was a booming business for the people living there. Moreover, the site was occupied at around 400 BCE and monumental architecture was not new to pre-Columbian people by this time (not by any means).
 
ghost7584 said:
Slotty
Well on the original question of how the pyramids were built i will give you the true answer. They were built with whips.

In Tiauanacho, Bolivia, there is a stone structure on top of a plateau using a 400 ton stone. The air is so thin that a slave force couldn't do intensive labor up there and crops could not be grown to feed them up there. What primitive tool, no matter how many slaves and whips you have, could even move a 400 ton stone. - think about it - 400 tons.
There is also a stone structure on top of a plateau and the stone quarry is at ground level; it might be this site in Tiauanacho. There is only a step footpath to get up there and no way slaves could have moved the heavy stones up to plateau level.
There was an ancient building method of moving and setting large heavy stones that we cannot reproduce today. Leedskalnin may have re discovered this method, like he said.

Err.. i was joking dude. Actually i saw the BBC documentary about it, and the case they stated for the construction of the pyramids seemed to be the most viable one i have heard of .
 
quelquechosedautre said:
It is clearly utter nonsense to say that humans could not be responsible for the pyramids. Any decent group of engineering students, armed with a generator, a network of Pentium CAD/CAM systems and 50,000 Egyptian slaves could throw up the pyramids easily within a decade and with utterly perfect alignment using lasers.

Any Egyptian ruler with the wealth of his kingdom and the devotion of his people who believed him to be divine accomplished the same without computers, electricity, and slavery. The laborers that built the pyramids did so out of devotion for their gods, not because they were slaves.

quelquechosedautre said:
Likewise, the presence of cocaine and crack turning up in the mummies of ancient Egypt when that plant only grew in South America can only be explained in one way.

One must marval at the ignorance of the significance junkie. First, Balabanova (who ran the tests which found the traces of cocaine, cannabis, and nicotine) didn't find any evidence of the "crack" version of cocaine. Second, cocaine producing plants aren't native to only South America as there are cocaine producing Erythroxylum species, which are indigenous to regions of Africa, India and Asia.

The South American coca plant belongs to the genus Erythroxylon contains over 200 species distributed throughout the tropics including the Americas, Asia, South Africa, Madagascar and Australia. There are even descriptions of plants in Egyptian epigraphy that are currently extinct, at least one of which was a very important spice. Perhaps one of these was in the Erythroxylon genus.

There are also plants in Europe and the Middle East which contain trace bits of nicotine, such as Beladonna, which was often used by ancient herbalists, shamans, and priests.

The rest of the nonsense you posted wasn't even worth commenting on.
 
Skin walker, I heard that the pharohs didn't live all that long. that they woudl have had to start building those pyramids before they were born...maybe you could get us up to speed on all that ...... :)
 
SkinWalker said:
I think Ed Leedskalnin did know the secret of the Egyptians: hardwork, pullies, careful planning. There's nothing to indicate that he used anything extraordinary, supernatural, or beyond the current understanding of physics. His stone blocks have tool marks that match what he was known to have and, in 25 years, he could have moved about a ton a day on average and built the "castle."



Which scientists have said this?



Why not?



Where are these on record at? Besides, it was dark and he worked by lantern... people don't need much to perpetuate urban myths.



Later in this same post you state that you only did it once. Which is it? Perhaps you won't mind being more specific in your methodology as well, that way others can duplicate what you claim to have done. The description later in your post are a bit lacking: what type of scale did you use? What were the specific voltages you were getting from the car battery charger? etc., etc.



I assure you, it is improbable that either you or Leedskalnin created a magnetic monopole of south or even north vector. Monopoles do not exist in nature nor do equations bear out their possibility. But if you did, please, by all means, post the equations here. Hell, write them on a piece of paper and scan them as an image then post them, since I don't think Porfiry has a hack like LaTex installed for equation graphics. But what possible interaction could photons of sunlight have with a magnetic monopole (which does not exist)?



Quite an ignorant statement, if you don't mind me saying. These small ceramic jars had a couple of uses that were posssible: as a way for electroplating metals such as gold or elektrum; and for ritualistic use in some "magical" or sorcerer who used a weak acid in the vessel and attached it to metal statue touched by believers who would then feel a tingle, verifying his "power."

The former suggestion of electroplating has fallen out of favor, however, since gilding metal by fire using mercury is far more effective. Very little gilding was able to be procurred from models of the "batteries" which only produced a very weak current.

A hypothesis that I favor is that the small cylinders of clay were vessels for storing scrolls. The vessels were typically 5 inches long and contained a rolled up copper sheet and an iron rod. The ends were capped with asphalt plugs, which would have acted as insulators for any electrical use mentioned above. They would, however, have been very efficient at hermetically sealing papyrus and, since each of the "batteries" found to date have were found open to the environment while in situ, any papyrus inside would have long since deteriorated, leaving a slightly acidic residue.

They certainly weren't capable of powering any sort of devices, even if we were given to believe the poppycock about ancient astronauts and the wisdom of the ancients and their "wonderous technology" that some ignorant, but popular, authors would have us believe. Experimental archaeology has yielded about 25mW from one of these tested as a possible galvanic cell. A penlight requires about 1100mW.



Speaking of one of these dumbasses now. Von Däniken is a liar and a plagiarist. Much of his work in Chariots of the Gods? is directly attributable, almost word-for-word, to the works of H.P. Lovecraft. I would be skeptical even of the page numbers in his books, and count them myself if I needed one.



No they couldn't, and if you believe that, you are very ignorant about electrical theory and the nature of the artifacts themselves. See my paragraph above to educate yourself. In order to use this type of galvanic cell, you would need far larger cells and many more of them... certainly these would have survived a little better in the archaeological record. The fact of the matter is, the types of artifacts you are referring to were found in Mesopotamia in a strata dated to around 200 - 250 CE, not egypt in the period of the pyramids (2613 - 2551 BCE for Seneferu's pyramid).



Pure pseudosciece baloney, much like your "psychtronic energy." We're still waiting for that explanation, by the way. Its not coming... is it?



I'm having a real hard time believing that based on the nonsense you would have us believe. You mean, you've never studied the problems associated with magnetic monopoles? Hell, I'm an anthropology/archaeology major, and I picked that one up in a chem class (but then, after retiring from the military then going to college, I'm a bit more attentive than your average college student, too).

What Uni did you attend? What was your senior thesis on?



Its been done.

Hathaway, Cleveland & Bao (2003) attempted to duplicate Evgeny Podkletnov's experiments as he outlined in his unpublished paper and his published work in 1992 in Physica C and came to the following conclusions:
  1. No weight modification or gravity-like force has been detected to the 0.001% level.
  2. The method of detection of "Josephson junctions" internal to the superconducting disks needs to be clarified because the initial tests performed did not conclusively detect their existence.
  3. The ability to achieve true AC Meissner levitation at 100 kHz was not successful because of the large size and weight of the disks used in the
    experiments. Apparently, the magnetic field intensity of the solenoid assembly proved to be too weak. Therefore, either greater power levels are required (greater than 1 kW), or the coil design needs to be optimized.

Not only did they review his methodology in setting up their own experiment, they also consulted Podkletnov to design their own.

It would seem that Podkletnov was in err, considering the inability for his hypothesis to be replicated.

Reference:

Hathaway, G.; Cleveland, B.; and Bao, Y. (2003). Gravity modification experiment using a rotating superconducting disk and radio frequency fields. Physica C vol. 385 pp. 488-500

I think that contemporary astrology with all it's fuss and flavours, inhibits, supresses, and discriminates individuality. I said that you don't need anything else except yourself if you want to notice yourself, so chill out. :m: :bugeye: :m:
 
you had an interesting idea there, but then it exploded when you started going into the supernatural part. The magnetism idea is interesting, however that is a scientific result if it can be reproduced over adn over again with a common ground or way to show that X is why it happened. Ancient civilizations had a very fair knowledge of science etc. But grabbing into thin air for "Magic" etc is no way to make a suggestion.
 
I was just to ask the same question. He's a spammer or something like that. Look at other of his posts.
 
I think "Dean" is a robot with a couple of constructed sentences to make it look like a human entry.
 
Two photos gave away the method Ed used to move all his coral.

The slider beams on the tripods enabled "walking" the frame.

:D

Looks up at stryders post, hmmmmmm.
Looks down at stryders post,,, FOCLMFAO :bugeye:
 
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