The Boston Marathon Bombing

spidergoat said:
Bebe, you are the bomb.
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Now they are dealing with Dzjochar according to Swedish newspapers:
"- If you tell us everything you will not get a death penalty."

It's perhaps a bit early to make such statements, or what do you think? But of course, it's a good thing that they are considering ruling out the death penalty to begin with. The government should not kill people imo. War is also wrong. Only I should have such powers. :D
 
Bells said:
I believe all this started when I provided information which stated that there are more terrorists plots and attacks in the US from right wing/radical/white supremacist/black supremacists/Jewish terrorist groups/animal rights activists/etc combined than there are from Muslim extremists in the US.
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Yup. That may or may not be a correct figure.

I then gave a list of non-Muslim terrorist plots from an article which was not apparently exhaustive or complete or very detailed. It then linked the article where Johnson is cited as saying that the US, at least, is so concerned with Muslim terrorists that they are disregarding home grown non-Muslim terrorists and also linked and quoted how radical and extremists groups are on the rise in the US and also in the US military. Johnson's predictions in his report, which saw him resign in disgust from DHS when Conservatives rejected it and demanded DHS cease and desist as they saw it as an attack on their supposed freedoms, were not that far off the reality of today.
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No, no: I got your point there. However, Johnson's article just describes intentions and suppositions. He doesn't give any figures regarding the number of attacks these nationalist/racist extremist groups have committed - he does mention a few incidents - and does not correlate evidence of such intentions with results. It's very difficult to gauge whether or not his argument is supported or not from the report itself; I don't know where your list came from and I don't know whether or not he relates to it. That was my point and I think it was quite clear.

Further, I have no idea if or why he resigned from DHS, and I had never heard of him until this thread. With the greatest trepidation at potentially diverting this discussion - and just really for the sake of personal interest - I suppose I am curious to know which supposed freedoms of these Conservatives he was attacking, or how an attack on such nationalists was interpreted as an offensive against such supposed freedoms. But that is neither here nor there, I guess.

Now I don't know what the hell you're on about.. You seem to have taken it and run in a direction known only to you.
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Actually it's really very straightforward: we don't agree on Johnson's interpretation. I don't think the list of attacks you presented was very complete, and I think that the incredibly high number of attacks (a third at least, and very probably more) coming from Islamists despite the tiny population base of Muslims in the US indicates a problem that is proportionally far more serious. Such is my estimation. I don't think the SPLC/Johnson hypothesis is any more likely simply because they happen to be NGOs or ex-DHS officers; and their list, which I think is a serious underestimate, suggests that I'm right. So it isn't a direction known only to me: I simply refute your position. That's it.
 
Bells said:
Oh for goodness sake. Not this conspiracy theory stuff again.
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Actually, I think I just said it was pretty damn unlikely. "I don't believe in coincidences, but..." If I'd just said "I don't believe in coincidences", then than would mean I was suggesting that some cooperation was in fact going on.

You've got to cool down on jumping on this perception of conspiracy issues on SF there, chief. Not everyone is trying to drop a floater in the public pool. Eeeasy now.
 
Bebelina said:
So what were the Tsarnajev brothers, homemade bomb fetischists? The muslim way of life.
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No, from what I can gather, they took exception at serial US atrocities in Iraq & Afghanistan, et all... and sought a measure of revenge. Clearly, their indiscriminate act is equally as inappropriate as indiscriminate US bombings in Muslim lands.

Just wondering when the American perps will be prosecuted.
 
I don't know if the intention of the US bombings could be said to be indiscriminate... but the results can be, and have been, and are.
 
The most pressing issue is to find out why the bros were radicalized to prevent such incidents from happening again. And also to track down the people they were connected with.
 
eram said:
The most pressing issue is to find out why the bros were radicalized to prevent such incidents from happening again. And also to track down the people they were connected with.
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Have you seen their mother? Just love this woman. completely nuts. A parody of all muslim women. There you have your answer. Mamas boy with mamas genes, the younger I believe is not suffering from the same insanity, perhaps taken after his father more, but felt he should support his brother no matter what and in this day and age young people have lost their belief in this reality as real. That's my theory.

We can never stop this from ever happening again. Mindcontrol of the entire population? Masshypnosis through media? Wait, we're already there...:eek: Some oversensitive people misinterpret the soothing signals from burger commercials and flip instead. A more human and just planet is the solution. More happy people makes a more peaceful world.
As long as people are straving to death on one side of the planet and others are bying diamonds for fun on the other side, things like this will continue to happen.
 
Let's face it, Baghdad has more death and injury on a bad weekend than the US has had since 9/11.
Either the US does not have a serious terrorist problem,
or the DHS are very good at their job.
 
It can be both. How many attacks take place in Iraq over the course of a year?
 
Bebelina said:
Now they are dealing with Dzjochar according to Swedish newspapers:
"- If you tell us everything you will not get a death penalty."

It's perhaps a bit early to make such statements, or what do you think? But of course, it's a good thing that they are considering ruling out the death penalty to begin with. The government should not kill people imo. :D
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So when your own family is murdered you wouldn't want those responsible to face execution for their cold blooded murdering of your family? You should think more about the suffering society has to endure keeping cold blooded killers alive in prisons where they can and do live long lives are fed well and are treated very humanely. To allow murderers to escape what they are due, being executed, then we will spend millions of taxpayers money keeping them alive for no reasons at all for the end result will be them dying in prison anyway.
 
Bebelina said:
Now they are dealing with Dzjochar according to Swedish newspapers:
"- If you tell us everything you will not get a death penalty."

It's perhaps a bit early to make such statements, or what do you think? But of course, it's a good thing that they are considering ruling out the death penalty to begin with. The government should not kill people imo. War is also wrong. Only I should have such powers. :D
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I don't agree with a death penalty either, but war can be necessary as a last resort. I don't really blame any Chechen for fighting against Russia. Putin is a thug and probably guilty of everything people accuse him of.
 
Buddha12 said:
So when your own family is murdered you wouldn't want those responsible to face execution for their cold blooded murdering of your family?
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I would, but at a higher level I would prefer the law be used rather than hate and anger when deciding what to do with criminals.

You should think more about the suffering society has to endure keeping cold blooded killers alive in prisons where they can and do live long lives are fed well and are treated very humanely.
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At that point they have given up their right to live in society permanently. The only remaining question is - "what's the cheapest way to deal with them?" And life in prison is cheaper than execution. I prefer the cheaper route.

for the end result will be them dying in prison anyway.
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Good.
 
Buddha12 said:
So when your own family is murdered you wouldn't want those responsible to face execution for their cold blooded murdering of your family? You should think more about the suffering society has to endure keeping cold blooded killers alive in prisons where they can and do live long lives are fed well and are treated very humanely. To allow murderers to escape what they are due, being executed, then we will spend millions of taxpayers money keeping them alive for no reasons at all for the end result will be them dying in prison anyway.
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It sends out the wrong signals to people having a government that performs legitimate murders to revenge the victims. Double standards, hypocrisy, not walking the talk etc. " We want a peaceful society, let's go out and kill some people!" Errrhhh..
So WHEN? someone will murder my family I would take it personally and hunt you down for even suggesting it. You should not imagine that you have the right to tell me what I should think more about, it's not good for your health. Society is an abstract term, society is a group of individuals, society does not suffer. I have never heard of such prisons you talk about. People in prisons get raped, tortured, are being isolated from the outside world and get to eat shit from the floor, but I don't know, maybe that sounds like paradise to you?
 
spidergoat said:
I don't agree with a death penalty either, but war can be necessary as a last resort. I don't really blame any Chechen for fighting against Russia. Putin is a thug and probably guilty of everything people accuse him of.
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It really is a last resort and creates more problems than there were to begin with. There is always a peaceful solution, unfortunately intelligence has not evolved enough within humanity to access that possibility,
 
Bebelina said:
It really is a last resort and creates more problems than there were to begin with. There is always a peaceful solution, unfortunately intelligence has not evolved enough within humanity to access that possibility,
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That peaceful solution is often unacceptable, like surrendering freedom or being a slave.
 
spidergoat said:
That peaceful solution is often unacceptable, like surrendering freedom or being a slave.
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Yes, often, but that is also something that can change. Peaceful solutions with acceptable and desirable outcomes for all parties involved.
 
Buddha12 said:
So when your own family is murdered you wouldn't want those responsible to face execution for their cold blooded murdering of your family? You should think more about the suffering society has to endure keeping cold blooded killers alive in prisons where they can and do live long lives are fed well and are treated very humanely. To allow murderers to escape what they are due, being executed, then we will spend millions of taxpayers money keeping them alive for no reasons at all for the end result will be them dying in prison anyway.
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I think we should put him in jail for life right next to former Vice President Cheney or Rush Limbaugh. I cannot think of a more hideous punishment.
 
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