The Big Bang Theory is the biggest lie in the western world

[Gravage]

May I use your words to counter folk who present things like intelligent design and god of the gaps argument in the future.
I bet you are tuff on those folk.
Alex

I don't like hypothesis of intelligent design or anything like it, mostly if I debate them it ends up in the war, rather than normal debate against believers in intellgent design, this is why I refuse to debate anymore, you cannot reason with these people, these people have too much fanatism and they are both irrational and subjective.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

these people have too much fanatism and they are both irrational and subjective.

Because I like you I will point out something.
You are coming across a little irrational and I think that is because you have so much to say on the op that we are getting many bursts at once.
I did suggest to talk about one issue at a time mainly so you could appear less excited.
Your stand on math really needs to be addressed.
Maths is a tool it is not evil or bad and your suggestions that it is only dealing with abstractions is only doing you harm.
Can you see no virtue or practical application of maths.
If you insist there is none I suggest you are not going to be regarded as realistic.
You have not provided your ideas on cosmology if we are to throw out the big bang.
I did ask but I presume you missed my post, that's OK I can see you have been busy, but if you can I would love to hear your idea about your alternative.
Do you have a new car for us or are we to walk?
Alex

 

[paddoboy]

First just because this is 21st century cosmology it doesn't mean it is correct everything we scientists say and "prove".
Second, how can you accept something like this if you cannot experimentally prove it, observationally prove it? Again that's not true science, that is faith.

All your flighty nonsense has been refuted many times, including your unrealistic, fabricated take on time dilation.
I havn't the time nor the inclination to continue refuting your crusade, other than to say the ignorance shown in your posts is outstanding, and playing excessively dumb by ignoring my points, just again paints you into a corner.
Science/astronomy and cosmology stand as is, and your ranting changes nothing...that most certainly is a proven fact!

I don't like hypothesis of intelligent design or anything like it, mostly if I debate them it ends up in the war, rather than normal debate against believers in intellgent design, this is why I refuse to debate anymore, you cannot reason with these people, these people have too much fanatism and they are both irrational and subjective.

Oh the irony of it all!!

 

[Gravage]

Because I like you I will point out something.
You are coming across a little irrational and I think that is because you have so much to say on the op that we are getting many bursts at once.
I did suggest to talk about one issue at a time mainly so you could appear less excited.
Your stand on math really needs to be addressed.
Maths is a tool it is not evil or bad and your suggestions that it is only dealing with abstractions is only doing you harm.
Can you see no virtue or practical application of maths.

And yes, you are 100% correct, math is excellent for new technologies and engineering and many many other things that we use in ever day life, but when math becomes religion that is not trying to use common sense and logic, rather than stupidity and abstract things to explain phenomenons, that is 100% wrong approach, my nephew works as static engineer where you actually need mathematics.

If you insist there is none I suggest you are not going to be regarded as realistic.
You have not provided your ideas on cosmology if we are to throw out the big bang.
I did ask but I presume you missed my post, that's OK I can see you have been busy, but if you can I would love to hear your idea about your alternative.
Do you have a new car for us or are we to walk?
Alex

The only thing I do know that Big Bang hypothesis and similar hypotheses, string/superstring hypotheses do not stand with such irrational and 100% impossible solutions that mathematics offers, because it is irrational and outside common sense and of course it is impossible (like dimensionless singularity, that does not expand into anything.
Like I said every time mathematics ended up with infinite values and zeroes it was proven to be wrong.

 

[Gravage]

All your flighty nonsense has been refuted many times, including your unrealistic, fabricated take on time dilation.
I havn't the time nor the inclination to continue refuting your crusade, other than to say the ignorance shown in your posts is outstanding, and playing excessively dumb by ignoring my points, just again paints you into a corner.
Science/astronomy and cosmology stand as is, and your ranting changes nothing...that most certainly is a proven fact!

No. it's not proven fact by long mile, it's merely speculations based on available data, but it is also so much misinterpreted-and these are all proven facts.

Oh the irony of it all!!

Read again this:

Overthrowing someone’s theory doesn’t automatically make that someone stupid. For example Ptolemy’s geocentric model of the Universe was thrown away later by better reasoning in the wake of newer information gained as part of the mankind’s ongoing quest to understand Nature. But that shouldn’t make Ptolemy and his followers any stupid, because the model was true and very much logical up to that point of time.

But that’s not the case with the theory of relativity. We don’t need any newer information or more sophisticated experiments to disprove the absurd theory which the modern physicists hail as the greatest scientific theory and whose principles they chant every day. Disproving relativity just involves exposing the relativists’ weird thinking and their stupid interpretation of the various experiments. So unlike the case with the Ptolemy’s Geocentric theory, disproving relativity also proves relativists as stupid.

The stupid thinkers claim that their weird theory has been proved beyond doubt by many experiments. Obviously no experiment straight away supports any theory but the data needs logical interpretation to arrive at correct conclusions. If some folk strongly believes that our world is fundamentally weird and hence declares that logic isn’t the best way of understanding nature, how can we expect such weird folk to draw logically valid conclusions out of any experimental data?

No doubt that, physicists are the most intelligent crowd amongst the humans and I agree that we all need to respect them for advancing our knowledge and technology. But what if they get affected by a mania and that mania masquerades as science? It will be a big shame not only to them but to all the humans. It will also be a shame to our Planet Earth if some aliens realize how stupid the most intelligent race on earth thinks! So to save science from weird theories and to save ourselves from the embarrassment, our physicists must be rescued from the relativity mania.

 

[danshawen]

This is why I can understand those who claim that global warming is not real, personally in my area nothing has changed that would prove that gw has shown its effects, as long as we can have winter in winter,

The Earth appears pretty flat where you are too, I bet.

the problem is there are too many statistical BS, and less real data to create any conclusions about any hypothesis.

Not in this case. When I was a kid in the 1950s, the world population was about 3 billion. Now it is over 9 billion with no end in sight. The desert area is growing. The icecaps are melting. There are too many human beings infesting this planet. This is not statistical BS. This is dangerous. When there isn't enough land to feed all of us, we will either have to become cannibals and/or starve to death. Does this seem like some kind of sick joke to you? I can assure you, it's not.

Of course, the climate is a self regulating system also. When enough people have died and no longer build or drive automobiles, and no longer demand coal or fossil fuel power generating facilities just to maintain life support, the climate should return to normal. Or our leaders could theoretically put policies into place to start turning the crisis around. If you don't want to believe that will be effective, you may be right, but don't blame the scientists who tried for all they are worth to warn you about what was happening and call them bad scientists for doing so, because that would make you a bad sort of world citizen. The kind that will be first on the menu with those kind of choices is my guess. And you will run out of ammo long before this planet runs out of hungry people eager to recycle your carcass.

 

[Gravage]

The Earth appears pretty flat where you are too, I bet.



Not in this case. When I was a kid in the 1950s, the world population was about 3 billion. Now it is over 9 billion with no end in sight. The desert area is growing. The icecaps are melting. There are too many human beings infesting this planet. This is not statistical BS. This is dangerous. When there isn't enough land to feed all of us, we will either have to become cannibals and/or starve to death. Does this seem like some kind of sick joke to you? I can assure you, it's not.

Of course, the climate is a self regulating system also. When enough people have died and no longer build or drive automobiles, and no longer demand coal or fossil fuel power generating facilities just to maintain life support, the climate should return to normal. Or our leaders could theoretically put policies into place to start turning the crisis around. If you don't want to believe that will be effective, you may be right, but don't blame the scientists who tried for all they are worth to warn you about what was happening and call them bad scientists for doing so, bad world citizen.

And I'm not denying these facts, but where is the catch? I don't believe that it can be predicted how exactly is going to be in the next 100 years from now, that's what I don't believe in, we will see, ok younger generations will see, but not me.
However, I don't believe that gw is so extreme, in my area we had extremes in the last 30 years, and this is nothing unusual, however if it happens that every single year we have extreme extremes and that there is no winter, than you can bet this is truly gw which is than out of control.
What I'm truly scared of, when it comes climate changes, are both food supplies and water supplies and agricultural issues because of weather extremes.

 

[danshawen]

What I'm truly scared of, when it comes climate changes, are both food supplies and water supplies and agriculture.

Everyone should be concerned as you are (I thought so). Me too. I usually vote according that concern as well, and wish more people did. There are actually people who didn't have health coverage until Obamacare, have vastly reduced medical expenses as a result, and yet voted for Trump and the party that plans to eliminate (they say 'replace') it. Why? With these kind of jokers running wild in politics, it will be at the expense of supporting Medicare or something else critical.

Religion is a poor substitute for solid science, and praying for divine intervention instead of making the right decisions based on the facts is an even worse substitute for sound politics, but the two seem to go hand in hand for some reason.

 

[paddoboy]

No. it's not proven fact by long mile, it's merely speculations based on available data, but it is also so much misinterpreted-and these are all proven facts.

Of course it stands as accepted by mainstream! That is a fact that your continued ranting on a remote science forum, from a position of ignorance, will never change..That indeed is a fact!

Read again this:

*yawn* Again, your nonsense rhetoric will change nothing. That is a fact.
If you had anything of any concrete nature then you would not be here..another fact!

 

[paddoboy]

And yes, you are 100% correct, math is excellent for new technologies and engineering and many many other things that we use in ever day life, but when math becomes religion that is not trying to use common sense and logic, rather than stupidity and abstract things to explain phenomenons, that is 100% wrong approach, my nephew works as static engineer where you actually need mathematics.

The only thing I do know that Big Bang hypothesis and similar hypotheses, string/superstring hypotheses do not stand with such irrational and 100% impossible solutions that mathematics offers, because it is irrational and outside common sense and of course it is impossible (like dimensionless singularity, that does not expand into anything.
Like I said every time mathematics ended up with infinite values and zeroes it was proven to be wrong.

Yes, I agree...you are being rather stupid, in the manner from a position of ignorance, of outright dismissing maths.
Oh, and to enlighten you further, not that it will do any good, a singularity simply shows where a particular theory is limited in what it will and can predict. GR certainly has that at the quantum/Planck level.

 

[paddoboy]

And I'm not denying these facts, but where is the catch? I don't believe that it can be predicted how exactly is going to be in the next 100 years from now, that's what I don't believe in,

How can you know? What instruments and satellites to you have access to?

we will see, ok younger generations will see, but not me.

Oh, now I see: This is a fuck you Jack, I'm alright type of attitude? Sad,

However, I don't believe that gw is so extreme, in my area we had extremes in the last 30 years, and this is nothing unusual, however if it happens that every single year we have extreme extremes and that there is no winter, than you can bet this is truly gw which is than out of control.
What I'm truly scared of, when it comes climate changes, are both food supplies and water supplies and agricultural issues because of weather extremes.

What you believe from a position of ignorance, is irrelevant for many reasons, some of which I and others have already stated.

 

[paddoboy]

I'm not in denial, all I'm saying that evidences that space and time vurve do not exist, and I'll explain why-both general relativity and special relativity are probably true, but it is clear that explanations that scientists have given us are 100% wrong/they suck, because they are misinterpreted/all of the interpretations of both special and general relativity are 100% wrong.

You are certainly in denial or just simply lying.
And of course your rambling rhetoric is not evidence that spacetime does not curve/warp/twist and wave.....
Re-stating a set of assertions as you continually do, isn't the solution to the lack of any theory or model that you don't have.
Any Tom, Dick, and Harry, as well as Gravage can make any assertion they wish. But this is science so you need to support your assertions with calculations showing that your ideas explain observations better than does the mainstream. So far you have failed miserably and just keep asserting, claiming and posturing with fabricated rhetoric that at best is contradictory and at worst just plain word salad.

 

[paddoboy]

Again there was no evidence of it, but like I said before they thought there is noway you can actually know what you have proven in the first place.

Yes there certainly was and evidenced twice. We already have threads with plenty of reputable links of confirmation, not withstanding your own unsupported anti science rhetoric.

It is based on facts, space and time are not made of anything, magnetic forces and electrical forces have physical influences on the physical environemt;

And so does spacetime. Again instead of cunningly ignoring my answers, tell me again what magnetic fields are made of...pretty please?

space and time are not some fields or forces anything like, you cannot physically influence something that is not made of anything physical-these are all facts, but scientists ignore them and they say its crackpotism, but the fact is they treat space and time like physical things-which they are not, completely wrong approach.

Wrong on all counts: spacetime is certainly real and its geometry has been measured in the presence of mass/energy. see GP-B and aLIGO.

Actually if you look at those evidence, it is the cosmic objects and itheir trajectories, not the space that curves, warps and twists, you simply do not see any space that gets curved, bended twisted, only the objects in space that gravity influences-that is what is observable and can be easily observed directly.

Yep, just as you don't see magnetic fields: The effects though of both magnetic fields and spacetime are measured and observationally verified. Gravitational lensing of course is just one aspect of warping/curving/twisting spacetime in the presence of mass.

Yes, they are facts, give me one single real evidence that is not like that, just one...

I've already given you two.....

Magnetic field and magnetic forces was proven before the mathematics described it-which was my point already in previous posts, it is real and it does exist, mathematics is here irrelevant, it's easy describe something that is actually real, than some dimensionless singularity that does not exist at all.
If we didn't have electric fields we would not be physical in the first place, basically wehn we touch the wall, we never ever touch really it is the electric fields of the wall and electric fields of ourselves that gets interacted.

Wow!! You are now going around in circles, and obfuscating as do most quacks, cranks and a general assorted variety of nuts.
Yes, magnetic fields are shown to exist by their effects and the fact that they can be measured and those effects seen.
Yes, likewise spacetime is shown to be real by its effects in the presence of mass, and the fact that such geometry has been measured.
And to go over again that which you have strangely ignored, the singularity, both BH's and the BB, are simply the parameters at which our laws of physics and GR fail.
This is well recognised in cosmology, and is the reason why the search for a validated QGT has been ongoing for many years.
Also the singularity need not be infinite, although it may lead to infinite quantities. eg: GR breaks down at the quantum/Planck level, that is 10-43 seconds from the actual BB dimensionless singularity you seem so obsessed with, and simarilly with BH singularities.
It would in my opinion be fruitful to this debate if you stopped playing so dumb, as in reality I don't believe you are at such a standard, simply your ploy to ignore the reputable logical answers to your fabricated nonsensical scenarios re 21st century cosmology that you seem in denial over.

 

[paddoboy]

But why the atomic clocks got affected as ‘exactly’ predicted by the mathematics of GR and SR? Well, they actually didn’t: https://debunkingrelativity.com/twin-flight-experiment/#comment-3383e can straight away discard the idea of constant speed of light using the same twin flight experiment. Imagine that a beam of light with velocity ‘C’ is shone towards the west. According to the law of constant speed of light, all the observers (the flights and the earth) must agree upon the speed of light as C. For the west bound flight in the above illustration to measure the light beam’s velocity as ‘C’, it will have to experience time dilation. Similarly for the east bound flight to measure the same light beam’s velocity as ‘C’ it will have to experience time contraction. But this is not what the clock readings from the twin flight experiment suggested.

Time dilation is a long verified fact, and your questionable quack links just expose you as another quack proponent.
The speed of light is and has always been constant and no fabricated nonsense you have shown can deny that.
Oh and for your information, again, not that it will do any good, the speed of light is denoted as "c" not C!
So much for your knowledge and common sense!

 

[Write4U]

You are 100% wrong.
The answer is yes Big bang is religion, but religion based on mathematics and statistics and not by the real evidence, electric universe model at least has real-world evidences that can be tested, Big Bang cannot, and if some model cannot be tested, it should be abandoned forever.
In science Mathematics is equal to what God is for religion-that's not science, it is faith in both mathematics and statsitics that they can solve everything, and yet the evidences they represent are not testable in a real world-they are all abstract, mathematical, statistical, but you cannot directly observe anything to directly prove or to directly disprove the Big Bang model, which is why the model is not scientific one, but religious.

Religions are belief systems without any proofs and can vary widely in philosophy. Science is a standardized accounting system and uses a standardized symbolic language (mathematics) to represent observed patterns and behaviors. Where proofs of these patterns and functions can be provided, the scientific community understands and accepts these proofs as true and constant.

You cannot compare these systems. Read the definitions of Religion and Science. Arguing that they are in any way comparable is misleading and wrong.

There is only one version of GR as a fundamental aspect of the mathematical nature of the universe. How many versions or interpretations are there for the equation E = Mc^2 ? This equation is a universal constant, and is accepted as true.

How many versions or interpretations of God = ??? (scripture) are there, and which is true?

 

[paddoboy]

Read again this:

Sorry, I'n not really into such amateurish denial nonsense such as you have shown for near all aspects of science.
I recollect you deny abiogenisis as impossible. Is that correct?
Then I see that you deny ID, is that also correct?
Then please tell me and this forum how life came to be if both ID and abiogenisis are wrong.
What I see here is another "closet god botherer" in a not so hidden disguise.
Trying to hide the rather obvious fact, that your general anti science rant, is governed by a motive that you are rather keen on hiding from the forum...that being your hidden religious convictions for the reasons that they are really so easy to dismiss, and the fact that science has pushed any need of any version of a magical spaghetti monster, into near oblivion.
Am I close to the mark?

 

[Write4U]

I just revisited the definition of *infidel* and it occurred to me that Theists are the real infidels.

From Webster:

Infidel
3 : a disbeliever in something specified or understood

Science is specific and understood. Anyone who rejects the scientific disciplines and acts on faith alone is the Infidel!

 

[Write4U]

The biggest mistake of laypeople/amateurs is to imagine the BB as some sort of explosion

Looking at it from the nano perspective (singularity) , it was the largest explosion (release of energy), creating a shockwave which can be observed as the Inflationary epoch, which appears to have exceeded SOL, for a single instant, before slowing down (cooling off) and pure energy becomes transformed into particles, etc.
IMO, it is an expression of the Exponential function as a fundamental mathematical equation.

p.s. I don't believe this argues against an eternal zero state Wholeness.

 

[Michael 345]

I already said the unprovable one that are so firmly believed to exist and to be proven-like the Big bang hypothesis.

OK. Lets go with the unprovable one The Big Bang (is it fine with you if we sort of include Big Expansion as some prefer that?)

I think of Big Bang blowing apart the Universe and the bits flying away and Big Expansion like a balloon inflating fast.

Either way you finish with a Universe with bits (galaxies) with space between.

Like a distinction without a difference.

But I digress.

I have not heard any scientist thundering from the pulpit if you don't believe in Big Bang you will go to Small Crunch and be flattened for eternity and never know the glory of forever getting bigger.

Don't see cosmologists selling balloons with dots, one marked with a arrow saying 'You live here'.

I've never been to a Big Bang party.

Have been to parties where I have got drunk and next day thought my head would explode.

None have been called Big Bang.

Don't see religion.

Humpty Dumpty with Poe getting drunk, looking for a bang. Need not be big.

 

[Gravage]

You are certainly in denial or just simply lying.
And of course your rambling rhetoric is not evidence that spacetime does not curve/warp/twist and wave.....
Re-stating a set of assertions as you continually do, isn't the solution to the lack of any theory or model that you don't have.
Any Tom, Dick, and Harry, as well as Gravage can make any assertion they wish. But this is science so you need to support your assertions with calculations showing that your ideas explain observations better than does the mainstream. So far you have failed miserably and just keep asserting, claiming and posturing with fabricated rhetoric that at best is contradictory and at worst just plain word salad.

I'm not in denial, you are, when the explanation is based on abstract and non-existent concepts, not based on logic and common sense and rationality-than it becomes exactly like Santa Claus pseudo-science or religion, the very fact you can trust so much nonsense about what scientists talk about proves my point, you should trust rationality and common sense, not irrationality and imaginary concepts that do not exist (matter that can affect abstract concepts like space and time ,singularity, dark matter, dark energy, inflation, string/superstring hypotheses and etc.), these all facts 100% prove how religious you have become when it comes to science-you have no right to talk about that I'm religious since I'm the one who is crtisizing and proving that science is wrong about some things like in this case Big bang-when you have a crititcal opinion and critical thinking-that's not religion, that's open mind-which you do not have, you are stuck with your Big Bang religion for entire eternity.
Explanations must be rational and logical, but mathematicians and physicists lost their logic in the Big bang model long time ago.
Explanations they offer is much like religious person says God created it all, and they are not based on reality, but on imagination that does not exist in the real world.

You are the one who repeating himself, again why do you trust explanations that do not have anything logical or with common sense, I have not failed miserably, you have, because you cannot answer questions that I have ask you mabout the universe: how can universe expand and not expand into anything, how can 3d universe exist and expand if its expands into nothingness that is dimensionless?
Answer those questions first, and stop attacking me like a true religious fanatic.