The Aim of Feminism
- Thread starter tillich
- Start date
Well, with all due respect, though, people don't need someone running around doleing out "I told you so"s, I think the point is made well enough if they screw up on their own.
Despite our mild agreement here, I'm going to have to shudder at the thought that you are talking about my precious Ayn Rand, I dislike you enough that this shared interest causes me pain! I wants her, she's mine, My own preccccioussss! *clutches a copy of Atlas Shrugged in his boney fingers and clutches it against his witherd frame.
Zero:
How so and who cares what you think? Xevious just capitulated.
Pay attention.
They're called "condoms". Say it. C'mon, we know you can.
Meh, neither of you losers can get laid. Sour grapes.
Mystech:
So you proved a point with an argument by hypothetical example?
Do you have the slightest clue how fallacious that is?
I'm sorry, but if you're not getting pleasure from sex there is something seriously wrong with you.
Hmm, sounds like I hit a nerve, given the emotional response...
Was there a point to any of that gibberish?
Xevious:
Thank you for agreeing with me. Finally.
How so and who cares what you think? Xevious just capitulated.
Pay attention.
They're called "condoms". Say it. C'mon, we know you can.
Meh, neither of you losers can get laid. Sour grapes.
Mystech:
So you proved a point with an argument by hypothetical example?
Do you have the slightest clue how fallacious that is?
I'm sorry, but if you're not getting pleasure from sex there is something seriously wrong with you.
Hmm, sounds like I hit a nerve, given the emotional response...
Was there a point to any of that gibberish?
Xevious:
Thank you for agreeing with me. Finally.
Xev, that quote you attributed to me wasn't mine.
Mystech, I'll hand you that a lack of sympathy and empathy isn't particularly nice, but no one has to be sympathetic when you screw up. I had to find that out the hard way. Of course that doesn't mean their should not be compassion. Yes, we all screw up and heaven knows I've screwed up rather badly in my own right. Certanly there is room for compassion, but it shouldn't come at the expense of accountability.
Mystech, I'll hand you that a lack of sympathy and empathy isn't particularly nice, but no one has to be sympathetic when you screw up. I had to find that out the hard way. Of course that doesn't mean their should not be compassion. Yes, we all screw up and heaven knows I've screwed up rather badly in my own right. Certanly there is room for compassion, but it shouldn't come at the expense of accountability.
Yeah, that's right, I did. And it wasn't my hypothetical example, and it wasn't MY argument, I was just participating. The hypothetical situation is what we were arguing, try to stay on the same page as everyone else, Xev.
Speaking of fallacys, how about Argumentum Ad Hominum? Xev, what's going on, I don't understand why you're being so catty.
That was my own opinion independent from any other point you have made, I wasn't agreeing to anything you said. Which isn't to say that I don't agree with anything you say, that's just simply not an issue here.
I usually think of feminism as a bad thing, but I might have a slightly skewed definition, perhaps. Feminism is the advocation of womans rights, whether or not they surpass men's. Equality is a great thing, but one must descriminate somehow. If everyone WAS "equal", then fireing someone would be illegal, refusing hiring would be illegal, discriminating against people that break the law would be illegal, punishing would be a form of discrimination and therefore be illegal (not that they could punish a breach...).
That would be insane, so people should try to understand what they really mean when they say equality.
By no means should one descriminate by gender, but feminism sometimes goes too far. That millitary thing someone mentioned is a good example. "woman can't get into the millitary, thats descrimination". So lets LOWER the standards ONLY for WOMEN. Equality prevails?.....
I think descriminination should be based on ONLY and ONLY ONLY skills and utility. A retard should not get mainstreamed into normal school classes. A person with no teaching skills should not become a teacher. A driver must pass a test. A fat person (of a high enough caliber) should NOT be allowed to sit in a small seat next to other airplane passangers (I know it seems harsh but that is the "utility" part of what I said, since being fat isn't a skill per se). ET CETRA. Age descrimination seems great to old people, but it is shortsighted. In my state, I can't drive other people if I am under 16 1/2, why? Because 30 odd percent of my AGE GROUP has accedents WITH OR WITHOUT PASSANGERS. They don't have harder tests, noooooooooooo they just up the age limit. That really pisses me off and it gives insight as to what started feminism. Angry females, frustrated that they are descriminated against only because of their peers and petty differeneces from males.
Women have their rights, feminism should be dead.
That would be insane, so people should try to understand what they really mean when they say equality.
By no means should one descriminate by gender, but feminism sometimes goes too far. That millitary thing someone mentioned is a good example. "woman can't get into the millitary, thats descrimination". So lets LOWER the standards ONLY for WOMEN. Equality prevails?.....
I think descriminination should be based on ONLY and ONLY ONLY skills and utility. A retard should not get mainstreamed into normal school classes. A person with no teaching skills should not become a teacher. A driver must pass a test. A fat person (of a high enough caliber) should NOT be allowed to sit in a small seat next to other airplane passangers (I know it seems harsh but that is the "utility" part of what I said, since being fat isn't a skill per se). ET CETRA. Age descrimination seems great to old people, but it is shortsighted. In my state, I can't drive other people if I am under 16 1/2, why? Because 30 odd percent of my AGE GROUP has accedents WITH OR WITHOUT PASSANGERS. They don't have harder tests, noooooooooooo they just up the age limit. That really pisses me off and it gives insight as to what started feminism. Angry females, frustrated that they are descriminated against only because of their peers and petty differeneces from males.
Women have their rights, feminism should be dead.
feminism isnt just gettin women rights, and look how long that took. its making sure everyone is given the same opportunity. the same chances. NO ONE should be denied the chance to try something simply because of their age/race/sex. and i believe that we need to be more objective in our legal system too, we need to be allowed to pick the best people without beign sued for discrimination, but we cant take one look at the person who walks through the door and say 'sorry cant hire you your not a white man." (i know htats the extreame example) and my only other problem with what you said was the military thing. go to any military processing and see how many people in general pass the physical. ive been up 3 times, i passed on the first time through, i was one of 3 out of a group of 20 (and the only female) who made it in. it still isnt that easy.
Frencheneesz, that is a very good point. I feel like that a lot too. Some say that feminism is to advocate everyone's rights. And yet the same movement of people who says in our daily language we discriminate against women discriminate against men in the title of it's own movement? FEMINISM is a female reference by definition. Feels to me like the pot calling the kettle black.
Seriously, I think that anyone SHOULD be able to discriminate as they please as long as it is in accordance with other laws (for example public disturbance). If you are being publically harrased, that isn't discrimination, thats harassment and thus illegal by public disturbance and .. harrasment.., not discrimination.
If someone rejects a job applicant by his color, why do we have to impose our ideas of equality on such a private place as a business. it is strictly their loss. We may regulate government enterprises and other such governmentally run places, but in all sincerety, one should have the right to refuse hiring to anyone they please, for any reason they please. Isn't it discrimination to charge people who have those different ideals as a federal offense?
Whos ever heard of Masculinism?
If someone rejects a job applicant by his color, why do we have to impose our ideas of equality on such a private place as a business. it is strictly their loss. We may regulate government enterprises and other such governmentally run places, but in all sincerety, one should have the right to refuse hiring to anyone they please, for any reason they please. Isn't it discrimination to charge people who have those different ideals as a federal offense?
Whos ever heard of Masculinism?
jayterrier
Registered Member
AMEN!
I couldn't have said it better. And though I can't speak for you, I love women for what they are and have all the respect in the world for the truly strong women in my life. Their stength was not a masculine strength, not trying to emulate a man in any way.(Usually not understanding why men do the things we do any more than we have to understand them.)
I couldn't have said it better. And though I can't speak for you, I love women for what they are and have all the respect in the world for the truly strong women in my life. Their stength was not a masculine strength, not trying to emulate a man in any way.(Usually not understanding why men do the things we do any more than we have to understand them.)
alright im going to give this one last shot. no matter how masculine a woman may appear, be it in her physical appearance, actions, or manerisms, i doubt its because she is trying to be a 'man'. im going to use myself as an example, simply because i know men more feminine than me. i am always more comfortable in my jeans than a dress or skirt, i never wear make-up, i have broad shoulders, i even hunt and fish (and i despise the color pink ). and none of this is because im trying to be a man. i am simply being who i am. doing the things i enjoy. and most of them are things i would not have been allowed to do 50 years ago just because im female. im not trying to be anything but myself, and modern opportunities allow me to do so. im tired of stereotypes that say this is what a person is supposed to be. no one has ever heard of masculinism because when was the last time you had a hard time doing something you enjoyed or getting what you wanted because your a man? i dont fall into neat and tidy groups that can be classified and shelved accordingly, and i certainly hope no one else does. feminism, and all forms of 'rights advocation' would be dead if we could look at each person as an individual rather than a set of outdated stereotypes. just because a woman seems masculine to you deosnt mean she acts that way, perhaps she is being who she is.
). and none of this is because im trying to be a man. i am simply being who i am. doing the things i enjoy. and most of them are things i would not have been allowed to do 50 years ago just because im female. im not trying to be anything but myself, and modern opportunities allow me to do so. im tired of stereotypes that say this is what a person is supposed to be. no one has ever heard of masculinism because when was the last time you had a hard time doing something you enjoyed or getting what you wanted because your a man? i dont fall into neat and tidy groups that can be classified and shelved accordingly, and i certainly hope no one else does. feminism, and all forms of 'rights advocation' would be dead if we could look at each person as an individual rather than a set of outdated stereotypes. just because a woman seems masculine to you deosnt mean she acts that way, perhaps she is being who she is."i am always more comfortable in my jeans than a dress or skirt, i never wear make-up, i have broad shoulders, i even hunt and fish (and i despise the color pink ). and none of this is because im trying to be a man."
That has nothing at all to do with feminism NOW, its now called life. You're right, 50 years ago you might have been shunned or.. whatever. Personally I don't like girls that wear makeup, I never see girls in dresses except on formal occations, and I think the color pink is cute, but usually, then, it wouldn't matter what color girls wear .
However when you ask "when was the last time you had a hard time doing something you enjoyed or getting what you wanted because your a man?" you fully demonstrate that you have no simpathy for the different status of a man. The bout of feminism has dropped mans status to that of a woman. Men have always had the social obligation to "protect" and give "courtesies" to women; of course I am disregarding the fact that they were in social slavery until recently. But the point is that NOW there is no social slavery for women, but men still have that social obligation to "be nice" to girls.
Even so, THAT is even a moot point when considering all the things men would get shunned for in the same way a women would get shunned back in the 1850's. Women can act pretty much how they want, do what they want, etc. If a man is gay, they ARE descriminated against, if they act gay or "girlish" same thing. Men don't wear dresses. Men have a much tougher time in social situations. And, once again, men usually have to submit to a womens wish (as long as it is not above a large favor).
I think you might see what I mean. In many families, the girls are highly favored and boys don't get the attention they deserve, no doubt causing vauge family issues and obviously affecting the subjects life.
Please do not think that social constraints have only been the burden of the women; it is only she who complained (not to conote that she didn't do rightly so).
That has nothing at all to do with feminism NOW, its now called life. You're right, 50 years ago you might have been shunned or.. whatever. Personally I don't like girls that wear makeup, I never see girls in dresses except on formal occations, and I think the color pink is cute, but usually, then, it wouldn't matter what color girls wear
. However when you ask "when was the last time you had a hard time doing something you enjoyed or getting what you wanted because your a man?" you fully demonstrate that you have no simpathy for the different status of a man. The bout of feminism has dropped mans status to that of a woman. Men have always had the social obligation to "protect" and give "courtesies" to women; of course I am disregarding the fact that they were in social slavery until recently. But the point is that NOW there is no social slavery for women, but men still have that social obligation to "be nice" to girls.
Even so, THAT is even a moot point when considering all the things men would get shunned for in the same way a women would get shunned back in the 1850's. Women can act pretty much how they want, do what they want, etc. If a man is gay, they ARE descriminated against, if they act gay or "girlish" same thing. Men don't wear dresses. Men have a much tougher time in social situations. And, once again, men usually have to submit to a womens wish (as long as it is not above a large favor).
I think you might see what I mean. In many families, the girls are highly favored and boys don't get the attention they deserve, no doubt causing vauge family issues and obviously affecting the subjects life.
Please do not think that social constraints have only been the burden of the women; it is only she who complained (not to conote that she didn't do rightly so).