The Aim of Feminism

Mystech:
all because she just really wants to be accepted by others and is looking for approval. . .
Click to expand...

How do you know why she does what she does? Did she walk up and say:

"Hi, Mystech. I have sex with oodles of attractive men, feeling unimaginable pleasure in the process, because I want approval"

what the hell else would you call it? If it isn't a poor self image, than what is it?
Click to expand...

Umm, okay. Pursuing pleasure is a sign of poor self image. Sure.

And who's jealous of what, I didn't quite understand what you're trying to get at, here.
Click to expand...

Jealous 'cause she can get laid. Jealous that she has so few inhibitions, that she's free.

Xevious:
I personally don't think much of girls who shag to their hearts content to begin with...
Click to expand...

That's good, for it's unlikely that any of them would want you anyways.

and I think they are just as slaved as a girl who has low self-esteem.
Click to expand...

I believe the word you are thinking of "enslaved". And while I did make the connection between promiscuity and masochism, I think it's best if you back up your statement anyways. :)

If she's just a nymfo and she enjoys sex, she is a slave to the impulses of her biology, and a slave to her own gluttony.
Click to expand...

While there is a strange validity in the concept of being "enslaved by one's freedom", it's mostly an inane concept.
 
And yet again, the double standard comes up. Xevious's comment about his dislike of promiscuis females carries no mention of males in that category.

I'm sure he'll turn around and say now that he doesn't like them either, but the original ommission has been noted.

And why is gratification so wrong? Where is the harm?
 
Kind of funny. The same guys that look down their noses at the ladies who enjoy a good roll in the hay are the same ones that are out there on Saturday night looking to find it.

If the ladies didn't enjoy it at all, where would you be? Out on Saturday night without...
 
Originally posted by tillich
All this is not sensible, when females try to gain the same power and so-called ¡°freedom¡± like males have, they will lose many precious virtues and characters which are distinguished from males. All these characters should be respected and adorned by the whole society because they constitute the essence of the females.
Click to expand...

All well said and thought, Tillich
 
What many people don't realize is that the destruction of the reciprocal roles of males and females has weirded society.
 
My omission had to do with the fact that it was only women being discussed up until this part in the discussion. Don't deal in double standards and false measures. Yes, as you would correctly predict, I don't think much of men who sleep around either, and it is not because of men versus women, it is because both parties are responsible for the societal consequences of loose lifestyles.

And why is gratification so wrong? Where is the harm?
Click to expand...
Gratification in itself doesn't really have anything wrong with it, unless the consequences of that gratification can be damaging to ones life and the community. In the case of sleeping around, the negative societal consequences include STD's, unwanted pregnancies... and when it comes to unwanted pregnancies, you often find that the woman and man involved are alienated by each other as a result.

Let me hand you the male perspective on, and I'm not even going to touch women on this one. Suppose I sleep around and end up knocking up a girl? Yeah she could have an abortion, but what if she decides to keep the child? The only recourse I get is a DNA test, and then I have to pay child support. Suppose the DNA test comes back that it isn't mine? The judge can order me to keep paying anyway, it's been known to happen. It is just stupid for men to sleep around. You can get stuck with someone elses kid, or you might end up with a lifetime of having to deal with someone who hates your guts, or you hate, or some of all of the above. For Pete's sake, just keep yourself out of the situation to begin with and you will spare yourself YEARS of hell. You might say that I'm just over-conservative, but I see this happening around me all the time. My older brother ended up knocking someone up. My best friend knocked someone up. I am one of only 3 males in my social circle who hasn't knocked someone up out of wedlock, or been accused of it.

...and I haven't even started on STD's yet.
 
Last edited:
Xevious:
Gratification in itself doesn't really have anything wrong with it, unless the consequences of that gratification can be damaging to ones life and the community. In the case of sleeping around, the negative societal consequences include STD's, unwanted pregnancies... and when it comes to unwanted pregnancies, you often find that the woman and man involved are alienated by each other as a result.
Click to expand...

I don't know what things are like in your trailer park, but where I live, there are these things called "condoms"....:rolleyes:

Unwanted pregnency? That's why there's abortion. Duh.
 
Yeah, and if you bothered looking at the numbers Xev, you would know that none of that is working. Even Planned Parenthood said that over 60% of all accidental pregnancies happened with condoms on. We have thousands upon thousands of abortions anually, and the number of accidental pregnancies has only shot up.

Back to reality... please. It is also rather curious how you ignored most of what I said about how women have all the power on this issue.
 
Originally posted by Xevious
Gratification in itself doesn't really have anything wrong with it, unless the consequences of that gratification can be damaging to ones life and the community. In the case of sleeping around, the negative societal consequences include STD's, unwanted pregnancies... and when it comes to unwanted pregnancies, you often find that the woman and man involved are alienated by each other as a result.

Everything there.. STD's, unwanted pregnancies.. is preventable. So in terms of pure philosphy, can you again tell me how seeking gratification in this way is wrong? Let's assume for the sake of this discussion that there will be no consequences of the above description.
 
Xevious:
Yeah, and if you bothered looking at the numbers Xev, you would know that none of that is working. Even Planned Parenthood said that over 60% of all accidental pregnancies happened with condoms on.
Click to expand...

Evidence?

We have thousands upon thousands of abortions anually, and the number of accidental pregnancies has only shot up.
Click to expand...

Like duh, because people figure they don't to be as careful, since abortion is an option.
Actually, can you prove that the number of accidental pregnencies has "shot up".

Back to reality... please. It is also rather curious how you ignored most of what I said about how women have all the power on this issue.
Click to expand...

Where'd you say this? I don't pay attention to everything, only that which interests me.
 
Originally posted by andeity
What many people don't realize is that the destruction of the reciprocal roles of males and females has weirded society.
Click to expand...

please explain what roles women should have then andiety? tell me how i should live my life because im a woman. explain why i am less than you because of that fact, because if you reffer to any time berfore feminist movements, then i would be stuck at home playing mommy to your fucking brats. unless you mean something else, and please do explain, i see this as meaning that that is the only thing women are suited to is bearing and raising children (which i have no intention of doing ever, i have not the patients or personality to raise children so i wont.)
 
Everything there.. STD's, unwanted pregnancies.. is preventable. So in terms of pure philosphy, can you again tell me how seeking gratification in this way is wrong? Let's assume for the sake of this discussion that there will be no consequences of the above description.
Click to expand...

No culture accept for the ultra-conservative made sexual gratification wrong. Even biblically, sex was to be treasured and enjoyed in a marrage. It was encouraged... and if you don't think so, there is a book in the bible called "The Song of Solomon" which is basically pornographic in nature. In fact, Jewish males aren't allowed to read it until they come of age. Of course, some copies of the bible omit this book. Then again, with lines in it like "He put his hands at my opening and I became excited" and "I wanted to open for my lover" I guess you can see how the ultra-conservative will ignore this book or remove it.

There is nothing wrong as I said, with sexuality in itself - it is the consequences of sex which are the issue. You state that pregnancy and STD's are preventable, but nothing is 100% preventable. Accidents happen.... and apparently they are happening a lot in this country. To be fair, lots of these accidents are stupid too.... people just aren't being careful, and this after all the Sex-Ed? In New Jersey they have sex ed since Kindergarden and all that happened with the number of pregnancies went up.

An element of personal responsibiliy and self-control is required for EITHER philosophy, be it safe sex OR celebacy to work. I argue for celebacy because it IS 100% effective. You don't get anyone pregnant or end up with an STD if you avoid the activity which causes those things to happen. Less self control is needed for a safe sex philosophy, perhaps that is why it is advocated so much. It is true that when you leave people alone for a while, all you have is a mob doing whatever it wants. Celebacy requires almost total control over ones sex drive, while safe sex requires only enough fore-thought to be careful.

Hey, I'm not a zealot here. I'm not saying that you HAVE to be celebate humans... but I am asserting my personal belief that celebacy is the best practiced philosophy. Sure I don't get any action with the ladies (I avoid casual sex), but I don't have to go through half the hell lots of people do either.
 
Last edited:
please explain what roles women should have then andiety? tell me how i should live my life because im a woman. explain why i am less than you because of that fact, because if you reffer to any time berfore feminist movements, then i would be stuck at home playing mommy to your fucking brats. unless you mean something else, and please do explain, i see this as meaning that that is the only thing women are suited to is bearing and raising children (which i have no intention of doing ever, i have not the patients or personality to raise children so i wont.)
Click to expand...

I'm going to take a stab a this and hope I don't get it wrong. I personally believe in mutual interdependence between men and women. Our species was specifically designed to work in a 2 gender system, each with respective strengths and weaknesses.

Early cultures went across the board to separate the roles of men and women in order to divide the labor according to strengths and weaknesses, but I personally take a much more individual approach to it. Each individual human of whatever gender, has their own unique strengths and weaknesses. When we seek a loving mate, it is entirely practical to seek someone who can augment your weaknesses with their strengths, and vice-versa. I don't subscribe to the idea that ALL women should be at home taking care of children - there are some men who would love that role and be very suscessful at it. But what I am offering is that a marrage should be an interdependent life partnership. If that isn't the point of it... then what is the point of marrage?
 
Xevious, thnx for your opinion. its too bad more people wont take that approach, personally i dont believe in any predefined roles, i prefer to think that each individual needs to choose their own path, and that in doing so our society is better because we dont tell anyone how to live. but the quote still bothers me. that somehow we need gender roles as a society. rules that say your a man this is what you do, and your a woman this is what you do. the other problem is i was angry when i posted and that quote set me off, so i was not at my logical best. but i would still apreciate an answer from andeity, how has society been weirded? and why does anyone, man or woman, have to conform to an out dated standard of what they are 'supposed to do' in a relationship or in society in general. what is you ideal society then andeity, and what roles do each gender conform to in it? give me something to go on, you made a general statement that makes it sound very much like you prefer the susy-home-maker, jonny-bread-winner version of life.
 
Deathrose

I believe in defined roles as set out by our biology. It's pretty simple. Beyond those roles, however, I really don't care who does what.
 
Originally posted by Xev
Mystech:


How do you know why she does what she does? Did she walk up and say:

"Hi, Mystech. I have sex with oodles of attractive men, feeling unimaginable pleasure in the process, because I want approval"
Click to expand...

Xev, the whole point was that she envys the girl who abstanes from sex, which shows that she isn't really happy with the way she is doing things. Besides its a hypothetical situation, and it was already stated that she does this from a desire to feel acceptance, I'm not pulling stuff out of my ass it's all right there already. Can you say reading comprehension?



Originally posted by Xev
Umm, okay. Pursuing pleasure is a sign of poor self image. Sure.
Click to expand...

But the thing is that she isn't getting the kind of pleasure she wants out of it, hence the envy for the girl who abstanes from sex.


Originally posted by Xev
Jealous 'cause she can get laid. Jealous that she has so few inhibitions, that she's free.
Click to expand...

What kind of cheap shot is that? Maybe I should send you some pictures of me and my boyfriend together, I get layed quite enough, thanks, and have a track record of being something of a slut myself (Though again, I was never looking at people who don't have a lot of sex, and wished I could be like them)

You seem to be projecting your own qualities onto this girl, no one ever said anything about her being perfectly happy with the way she goes about things, that's not the scenerio that was bought up. If she WAS quite happy with how many people she's sleeping with, then it's completely fine, but you can't just go changing the topic of the conversation like that without signaling.
 
Originally posted by andeity
What many people don't realize is that the destruction of the reciprocal roles of males and females has weirded society.
Click to expand...

Haha, yes and if there is something that the world needs it sure as hell isn't a weird society. Just imagine all of the peoples of the world waking up to a sort of silent akwardness and giving eachother sidelong glances and quickly looking away when they realize someone else is looking at them. The horror. . . the horror!
 
Originally posted by Xevious
An element of personal responsibiliy and self-control is required for EITHER philosophy, be it safe sex OR celebacy to work.
Click to expand...

Xevious is 100% right here, if anyone wants to be slutty they have to be aware of the risks that go along with it, and certainly take precautions to prevent possible unwanted consequences. In the end, if a person wants to be promiscuous, they have to be able to say that the pleasure they get out of it outweighs the risks in their own mind, and if something DOES happen, hey have to be ready to say that they haven't got anyone to blame but them self. I'd go into why that sort of weakens the "That's what abortion is for" argument, but I don't want to change the subject of this thread.

This rule goes for both men and women. If you catch something, it's your fault for sleeping with someone who was infected, and if the girl gets pregnant, the male is just as responsible, and should rightly catch as much of the blame.

On the flip side, if someone feels that they are smart enough to take precautions and have "safer" sex, and are willing to admit that there is still the possibility of something going wrong, but feels confident in their abilities to do everything in their power to prevent it (Without sacrificing their pleasurable pursuits) and feels ready to handle any of the passable consequences, well then more power to 'em, it's a lot of fun!
 
Thank you, Mystech. You have more or less summed up what I believe. The only thing about me really, is that when people live those said lifestyles, and then end up with the consequences for it, I have no problem saying "You were asking for it." This has to do with another philosophy I have.

I define freedom as not being held accountable for a given action., and this has been the best definition I have found so far. Think about it: When you take a walk down the street in this free country, no one is going to stop you and say what you are doing is wrong. That is freedom. By the same token, when you rob a bank and are stopped by cops, that is NOT freedom.

When I ask people bold-faced what IS freedom, no one really has a dictionary definition handy in their heads... most people understand freedom it seems in a much more instinctive mannor. Accountability for one's actions are important... and natural law is one of the biggest enforces of accountability. Natural Law, as defined by Rand basically goes like this: If I cut myself, I bleed. If I trip, I will fall. If I piss of my neighbor I might get shot.

I find it both funny and at the same time sad that intellectuals had to sit down and label and spell out how a bit of common sense works, but there you have it. The above are some of the most crucial elements of my sense of justice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top