The Aim of Feminism

T

tillich

Registered Member
As regards the aim of feminism£¬many people believe it only advocate the equality between male and female. As a result, quite a few feminists only pay heed to the rights and power, which entitle them to the cosy and comfortable material life, and many females thought that if they can prove that they have capacities to do as well as males in the position that is respected by the modern value, it will be more likely to fulfill the aim of feminism. So nowadays women try their best to act as men act regardless of the character and essence of their own. For example, they protest that the female engineers, female scientists and female philosophers are so few that they reduce the cause of the phenomenon to the prejudice against the capacities of females. Another case is that female try to act casually and freely like males in the life, especially in the sexual affairs, which neglect all the criteria of the virtue.

All this is not sensible, when females try to gain the same power and so-called ¡°freedom¡± like males have, they will lose many precious virtues and characters which are distinguished from males. All these characters should be respected and adorned by the whole society because they constitute the essence of the females. If women are given the same rights and privileges only under the condition that they have the same, or even the better abilities which are valued by the principles of male virtue, I think women are only give the sufficient opportunity to accept the characters of men, regardless of good or bad in terms of morality and philosophy, and become the artificial ¡°men¡±. So it¡¯s necessary for women to reflect on the essences of her own and make them valued by the modern society. Only in this way cay feminism set the right goal and women can gain the real respect from the whole society.
 
So nowadays women try their best to act as men act regardless of the character and essence of their own.
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You've got half of it nailed right here... but it surprises you that this is how it is? Lots of feminists hate men, but end up just like 'em. The hippocracy is amazing...
 
The hippocracy is amazing...
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A government by hippos? Huh?

Tillich:
n. For example, they protest that the female engineers, female scientists and female philosophers are so few that they reduce the cause of the phenomenon to the prejudice against the capacities of females.
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Support this assertion.

Another case is that female try to act casually and freely like males in the life, especially in the sexual affairs, which neglect all the criteria of the virtue.
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Chastity is a virtue for slaves.

All this is not sensible, when females try to gain the same power and so-called ¡°freedom¡± like males have, they will lose many precious virtues and characters which are distinguished from males
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Why is it not sensible? What virtues? How do you define virtue?

So it¡¯s necessary for women to reflect on the essences of her own and make them valued by the modern society. Only in this way cay feminism set the right goal and women can gain the real respect from the whole society.
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Why should I, as a woman, want to be respected by this suck-ass society?
 
Chastity is a virtue for slaves.
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One would think a woman would be a lot more protective of her virginity than a man would be because she can get pregnant. :cool:
 
Gender roles are for simpletons, drop the act it's gone on long enough, let a man or a woman do what he or she chooses, nothing of value is lost by this, just a nonsensical status quo.

I've got a beef with women in the military, acctualy, not because I beleive that they are less capable, but because there are seperait standards for them, the fitness test to become a recruit for the marines, for example, is less than that of a male (I can't remember the acctual numbers, but it litteraly does come down to less situps less pushups and less chinups and all that in order for a woman to become a recruit). In a military organization who's philosophy is that every member, reguardless of his job, be he a mechanic, cook, or front line grunt, should be able to fight just as well as any other marine, I think that this takes away from the very heart of the marine core.

There should be equality, not special privalages. The lower standards for a female recruit are based on the idea that women are inherently weaker (In a physical sence) so does catering to physical weakness make for a stronger millitary? No, of course not, there should be one standard for a soldier, and all, reguardless of gender should be required to pass it to become a recruit, if this results in fewer females in the marine core, so be it, trying to counter act physical realities with political policies NEVER works.
 
Originally posted by Mystech
Gender roles are for simpletons...
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So you can simply dismiss all archaeological and anthropological evidence and theory as "for simpletons"? Wow. You're smart.
 
Xevious:

One gets pregnent because one is a stupid broad who doesn't use protection, not because one is a whore.

Adam:

If you'll read up successful civilizations, chastity is rarely considered one of the major virtues. If there is an ideal of chastity, it is usually an ideal only, not a reality.

Chastity is also useful for any slaveowning society because one sublimates all that energy that would be put into fucking into rowing boats, building things, or making Nikes.

Not to mention that for most people, their first real experience of power is through sex. If one wants docile slaves, obviously the sex drive has to be regulated.
 
That one Adam, pretty much sums up most of what I think of feminism. THere is flat out no way that the male and female genders can be made to conform to the same behaviors and to some of the same roles. We are each wired, and designed differntly.

I wish people would realize that a male and female which work interdependently can do a whole lot more than either can do alone.
 
Originally posted by Adam
So you can simply dismiss all archaeological and anthropological evidence and theory as "for simpletons"? Wow. You're smart.
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What are you talking about, evidence and theory of what? I'm not debating their existance, I'm debating their usefullness.
 
Debating the current usefulness of genders? Well, I can't have babies. Women can't naturally produce sperm. Male and female brains are different, allowing for each to be better or worse at different types of things. There's a rather nifty book a friend of mine has detailing all the differences between male and female brains, and the effects; I'll find out the title if you want.
 
I¡¯d like to clarify one vital question that is related to our discussion. ¡°Are there any substantial differences between male and female?¡± This question can be reduced to two questions:¡¡
First, besides the differences in physical appearance, are there other kinds of differences between male and females? For example, can we say women are inferior to men in the subject of Physics in the light of the female¡¯s performance on that subject? Can we say men are suitable to do some kind of work while women are suitable to others? Do some characters and personalities merely belong to men while others belong to women? Or the characters are more or less labeled by the traditional value of the society? If so, to what extent? As for me, I think the differences existed between male and female just like the differences between the old and the youth, bird and fish, tiger and lion, etc, In short, the differences between two categories. Yes, we can derive the rough differences from the induction of our life experiences. But all these are empirical judgment. In other words, the differences we attain can only apply to many men or women, but can¡¯t apply to one men or women. Because the characters of individual are more than those of the any categories that one belongs to. All we can say are no more than the possible characters one (female or male) has possessed. Generally speaking, men can run faster than women, but the winner of women marathon certainly can run faster than a male white collar. A girl with effective training of Physics can certainly do better than a boy who doesn¡¯t have such kind of training. And a girl who doesn¡¯t adept at philosophy can achieve international success with the diligent and attentive thinking. I think the characters and essence concerning the personality and ability of women are not the concepts that have the same and invariable meanings throughout the history of human beings. The characters and essence of female or male must be revealed and created by their respective actions. And during the course of the actions and friendly competitions between two genders, the prejudices of ¡°the essences and characters¡± between two genders will be discarded gradually.
Second, although many differences can be changed, but some are changed difficultly. Here I don¡¯t only refer to the physical function or the biographical characters in each genders ( such as the pregnancies and sperm), but also refer to the characters of male or female, such as tenderness, considerate, aggressive. No one can deny the fact that every culture advocates certain kinds of gender role models, even the content are quite different. In such a circumstances the individual can¡¯t absolutely escape the influences of the society. Even when we start to deny the model absolutely, we are only struggle against the principles established by the society and tradition previously. Only through the contract with the traditional value can we know what we can struggle against. So there is no point in disobeying the traditional morality just because it is traditional morality. That traditional morality exerts prejudice on women doesn¡¯t mean we the female have the right to reject the traditional morality absolutely on the ground of the prejudice we the female exert on the traditional morality. We should transvalue the content of the tradition ethic, find out the advantages and disadvantages of the traditional characters of male or female at modern times, finally decide the necessity and worth of changing.
On the ground of the argument above, I¡¯d like to ask some friends¡¯ questions.
Xevious:
I think you have most closely express what I want to express. But I think chastity can¡¯t be proved right and reasonable by you argumentation.
Adam:
I agree with you argument that there are differences between two genders, but only as the objective knowledge. And we couldn¡¯t neglect the fact that most differences associated with social attributes can be changed. When women realize this notion, I think it can be very stimulative, I think it can somewhat explain Mystech¡¯s opinions.
Xev:
Thanks for your three challenges, and I must admit that the third question is caused by my poorly expression. I only want to emphasize on the importance of reflections on the directions and goal of feminism. Only to claim rights of female regardless of cost of the achievements may do harm to women. Because rights go hand-in-hand with duties, if female aren¡¯t ready to take on the new duties, I think some ¡°virtues¡± which ensured her originality and freedom (another kind) previously will go to the end, but the new suitable values and principles are not established on time, it will give us a lot of difficulties when we deal with the life and make the vital choice at the fatal moment.
And I feel very surprised why you refer to chastity in this discussion; I don¡¯t know how you interpret the term ¡°chastity¡± and what reason makes you so sensitive with the word. Because I only find you conclusion and the argument based on the ambiguous interpretation of ¡°chastity¡±. Maybe it¡¯s popular that a feminist should show great fury at the word ¡°chastity¡±. So I hope you the mature feminist to clarify and teach me naïve feminist in this aspect of feminism.
OK! Sincerely await your criticism.
 
tillich:
Thanks for your three challenges, and I must admit that the third question is caused by my poorly expression. I only want to emphasize on the importance of reflections on the directions and goal of feminism. Only to claim rights of female regardless of cost of the achievements may do harm to women.
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Hmm, okay. It seems you don't believe that certain rights are inalienable and that every human deserves them?

Niether do I.

But I'm curious - what harm might seizing these rights do to women?

Because rights go hand-in-hand with duties, if female aren¡¯t ready to take on the new duties, I think some ¡°virtues¡± which ensured her originality and freedom (another kind) previously will go to the end, but the new suitable values and principles are not established on time, it will give us a lot of difficulties when we deal with the life and make the vital choice at the fatal moment.
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I'll disagree with you there. While it can be argued that rights and duties go hand in hand (the right to vote gives you the responsibility to put thought into your vote), I don't think that it can be proven that rights and duties go hand in hand.

You argue that the feminist movement requires that women adopt new values. I disagree and I agree.

I disagree because I think of feminism as simply a way of giving women the freedom to decide what they wish to do with their lives, not a way of imposing any new roles on women.

I agree because the existence of these new "rights" requires that women lose the ideal of passivity, for one.

So I hope you the mature feminist to clarify and teach me naïve feminist in this aspect of feminism.
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My apologies. I thought you were advocating a virtue of sexual "purity". I don't believe in it, but that's more of a personal thing than a feminist thing.
 
Originally posted by Adam
Debating the current usefulness of genders? Well, I can't have babies. Women can't naturally produce sperm. Male and female brains are different, allowing for each to be better or worse at different types of things. There's a rather nifty book a friend of mine has detailing all the differences between male and female brains, and the effects; I'll find out the title if you want.
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Aside from who sticks what where, there's really nothing to it.
 
Aside from who sticks what where, there's really nothing to it.
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Until you enter an american prison... they nobody sticks stuff in the right place.
 
Originally posted by Xev

Hmm, okay. It seems you don't believe that certain rights are inalienable and that every human deserves them?

Niether do I.

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How subversive! I'm telling Ashcroft!

Seriously, though, do you think that some people just inherently don't deserve certain liberties? I have to think I'm not thinking about this issue in the same way as you are. Mostly thinking along lines which exist in my own little world :p mostly about if it's moraly right to deny certain people certain liberties which you really don't have any stake in (For instances the government refusing to recognize gay marrigase and all that).
 
Originally posted by Xev
Hippocrasy
A government by hippos? Huh?
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*Falls out of chair and has a heart-attack at 16*
 
Originally posted by Adam
Support this assertion.
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HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*Has a stroke at 16*
 
Originally posted by Adam
So you can simply dismiss all archaeological and anthropological evidence and theory as "for simpletons"? Wow. You're smart.
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*INTESTINES RUPTURE AND BLOOD FLOWS UP DIGESTIVE TRACT AND OUT OF MOUTH*
 
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