Ten reasons that I am an atheist

A

Alien Cockroach

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Banned
I posted this on another thread to replace an inferior post, but I decided that it would function well as its own thread. Here are ten perfectly honest reasons that I am an atheist and likely to remain one.

Reason #1: I am perfectly content with being an atheist. I keep running into people who somehow have a problem with this, and they have reliably been the biggest dickheads I have ever seen. Atheism is my comfort zone. I feel secure there.

Reason #2: I am not overwhelmingly impressed with the apologetics I have seen for Christianity.

Reason #3: If you see "Reason #2" and you think, "I am defending theism, not Christianity," go and burn in Hell because you are a piece of shit.

Reason #4: I don't feel like I need to be "saved." I actually have very low stress levels.

Reason #5: For some strange reason, I am not really bothered by the belief that I am not going to get to have an afterlife. Frankly, I prefer to stay that way.

Reason #6: I have read the Bible, and it really is a vexing thing to read. You have to do a lot of back-referencing to understand some of it. Well, I managed to get through it, and it looks pretty man-made to me. If you read it and feel differently, that is up to you.

Reason #7: I have a cautious, conservative personality, and the idea of "blind faith" doesn't sit very well with me. It goes in the same category as body modification.

Reason #8: Atheists have the same bets as anyone else on having the special favor a mysterious, immortal being. If you ask me, you have be a really bigoted asshole to not be able to see this, and I am being very harsh and judgmental here. My "bets" are just as good as anyone elses.

Reason #9: So-called "religious experiences" sound like a mild seizure to me. When I tell people this, they try to claim that I don't understand what it is, and they try to claim that it is something special and different. Well, it is one thing to claim this, and it is something completely different to get someone like me to believe it. I am a stodgy kind of guy, so I am not very easy to persuade when it comes to this out-there stuff.

Reason #10: If you tell me that I have to believe in your religion to get my proof for it, thank you: suddenly I know that I should never trust you under any circumstances. I should never lend you money because you won't pay it back. I should never sign a contract with you because you would violate it and ignore the court summons. I tend to avoid dealings with the kinds of people who employ bullshit arguments in the name of their beliefs. There is usually something deeply wrong with their morals.
 
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Reason #8: Atheists have the same bets as anyone else on having the special favor a mysterious, immortal being.
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Could not work this one out? Could you try and expand on it, cause i got no idea what you are saying here.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Could not work this one out? Could you try and expand on it, cause i got no idea what you are saying here.
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It's a reference to "Pascal's Wager." It only works if you assume in the first place, "no supreme being would ever LIKE an atheist." It's nothing else in the world except a colossal insult against atheists. In fact, the real flaw in "Pascal's Wager" is that atheists have the same bets as black people, all things considered. Under "Pascal's Wager," you might as well substitute a race or a favorite color. Most people who respond to it on these premises point out, "well, it could be some other god," but that's too narrow. It could be whether or not you eat your hot dogs properly and on the correct day of the week, just as easily. "Pascal's Wager" is simply a crock of shit. So is any variant thereof.
 
All your list tells me is why you are not a theist.

Why are you an atheist?
 
so to summarize you could have just said "i'm an atheist because it makes me feel good."
 
Lori_7 said:
so to summarize you could have just said "i'm an atheist because it makes me feel good."
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Not really. I think it would help you if you tried modifying the assumptions that you tend to make about atheists in general. If you do not feel ready to do that, then I will not try to pressure you to do so. It really is a lot easier to deal with the world if we feel like we are in a permanent, secure position, so a lot of us tend to feel very uneasy about reconsidering our assumptions about the world or about human nature. I don't mean to be chauvinistic, but I also understand that very religious people can have a little more trouble than others at changing their attitudes. That is not always a bad thing, but really, take your time.

When I was a younger man (I am still a young man now, technically), I was one of those guys who were very moralistic about being open and ready for change. It is really a very noble view for a young man to take. They are young, and they are inexperienced. They have not had the time to find a strategy toward living that really works for them, and it would be a mistake in their case to become set in their ways.

I spent a long time trying to "debate" against Christians and Creationists. They really can be frustrating, but the more of life I get to experience, the more I realize that I am tilting at windmills, for the most part. It's not what people believe that counts, in the end. What really matters in people is their values.

At that point, I started trying to examine people's values instead of what they claimed to believe, and I was hit with a pretty shocking revelation: with the exception of one group of people, the quality of values that people use to approach life and decision-making seem to be scattered, surprisingly randomly, across the religious map. There are some interesting trends in there, with certain values being more prevalent Here than There, but that is purely academic! I realized that, when I evaluated people based on their values and tried to ignore their views, I came up with a fairly mixed catch. The outlier, by the way, is that group of people who self-identify as "theists." They really are garbage.

By now, I am really not as keen as I used to be on trying to get people to stop believing in Salvation through Jesus Christ. It really does seem to make some people happy, and the truth is that I am glad for them. I hope that you and other Christians find your experiences with spirituality to be fulfilling. I don't seriously want to turn you away from it anymore. I do not see it as a threat to anything. I really just want you to be happy.

The reason I did not come to this conclusion a lot earlier was that I always had the assumption that there was a direct correlation between religious fervor and the negativity of a person's views toward atheists. It was a simple mistake in thinking, and I apologize for it. I was going through life under the impression that it was people's religious beliefs that I had to defend myself against. I behaved accordingly, and I made a right ass of myself over it.

Eventually, I realized that some people are just bullies, and bullies always gravitate toward the easiest ground to attack people from. That is usually going to be whatever point of view is considered to be mainstream. They are not attracted to the touchy-feely aspects of Christianity, and I would not say they tend to be Christians at all. They are really just bullies who think they've found a comfortable position from which to attack other people. They do not always call themselves "theists" or "monotheists," but you never hear them talking about Jesus Christ or anything that Christianity really stands for. What makes them different is a complete lack of values, Christian or otherwise.

In any case, I hope that you will reconsider your assumptions about atheists, and I hope to have many productive conversations with you in the future. Take care, now.
 
Alien Cockroach said:
The outlier, by the way, is that group of people who self-identify as "theists." They really are garbage.
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That's me!! Theist to the core! :D

Why? I didn't like much of what I found in church. I notice you didn't either (#1,2,5,6,7 & 8). So I am defending theism not mainstream Christianity! (LOL, I'll obviously burn in your atheist hell). Here's 10 reasons why:

Ten Reasons I am a Theist:

#1 I am most content going my own way, as a theist, without subscribing to any single religious or secular doctrine.

#2 I am not overly impressed by atheism OR by most religions. Atheists seem as fundamentalist as many evangelicals. They have a lot in common!

#3 My project is to find the synthesis between moderate atheism and theism. Much of it is just semantics. We all have values for what is good, of what we admire etc. If we take God as the deepest part of ourselves (e.g. our most profound values), moderate atheists and theists probably agree on much.

#4 I do want a spirituality that is a path towards greater depth of life, greater appreciation, greater connection, that 'cleanses the doors of perception'.

#5 When I'm dead, my identity, memories and personality will rot with my brain. How could it be otherwise? However, (my) consciousness is eternal and in everyone (animals too). I will experience being you, and you me, and perhaps the whole ocean of consciousness. It will be an adventure!

#6 The Bible and other sacred texts are the ancient maps left by those who have travelled this way before. Here be spiritual treasure (if you look in the right places)!!

#7 Faith is essential to build trust in any relationship. Faith in God is no different.

#8 Research shows that theists are happier, healthier and live longer than atheists. I want to build me 'the good life'.

#9 People of every age and culture have had experiences of the numinous, often transforming their lives for the better (See James, W., "Varieties of Religious Experience"). I haven't, but I believe their accounts point to something real.

#10 The only way to find out some things, is to experience them yourself. So, I made a leap of faith in order to test out the hypothesis. It's still not proven, and the experiment continues, but I see many prayers answered, and I feel ever more strongly the presence of something of beauty in my life. I feel I'm coming home.


Alien Cockroach said:
I just gave you ten reasons why I am an atheist. I think that what you want to hear are reasons that you should be an atheist. Why do you want them?
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Lots of people are turning to atheism, often with very good reasons.
However, atheism is a reaction AGAINST a belief system. You must have some other (more positive) source for your values etc... e.g. humanism?

I'd have liked to see some of those in your list AC. It's easier to be against something, than to find a positive worldview to replace it.
 
Alien Cockroach said:
Not really. I think it would help you if you tried modifying the assumptions that you tend to make about atheists in general. If you do not feel ready to do that, then I will not try to pressure you to do so. It really is a lot easier to deal with the world if we feel like we are in a permanent, secure position, so a lot of us tend to feel very uneasy about reconsidering our assumptions about the world or about human nature. I don't mean to be chauvinistic, but I also understand that very religious people can have a little more trouble than others at changing their attitudes. That is not always a bad thing, but really, take your time.

When I was a younger man (I am still a young man now, technically), I was one of those guys who were very moralistic about being open and ready for change. It is really a very noble view for a young man to take. They are young, and they are inexperienced. They have not had the time to find a strategy toward living that really works for them, and it would be a mistake in their case to become set in their ways.

I spent a long time trying to "debate" against Christians and Creationists. They really can be frustrating, but the more of life I get to experience, the more I realize that I am tilting at windmills, for the most part. It's not what people believe that counts, in the end. What really matters in people is their values.

At that point, I started trying to examine people's values instead of what they claimed to believe, and I was hit with a pretty shocking revelation: with the exception of one group of people, the quality of values that people use to approach life and decision-making seem to be scattered, surprisingly randomly, across the religious map. There are some interesting trends in there, with certain values being more prevalent Here than There, but that is purely academic! I realized that, when I evaluated people based on their values and tried to ignore their views, I came up with a fairly mixed catch. The outlier, by the way, is that group of people who self-identify as "theists." They really are garbage.

By now, I am really not as keen as I used to be on trying to get people to stop believing in Salvation through Jesus Christ. It really does seem to make some people happy, and the truth is that I am glad for them. I hope that you and other Christians find your experiences with spirituality to be fulfilling. I don't seriously want to turn you away from it anymore. I do not see it as a threat to anything. I really just want you to be happy.

The reason I did not come to this conclusion a lot earlier was that I always had the assumption that there was a direct correlation between religious fervor and the negativity of a person's views toward atheists. It was a simple mistake in thinking, and I apologize for it. I was going through life under the impression that it was people's religious beliefs that I had to defend myself against. I behaved accordingly, and I made a right ass of myself over it.

Eventually, I realized that some people are just bullies, and bullies always gravitate toward the easiest ground to attack people from. That is usually going to be whatever point of view is considered to be mainstream. They are not attracted to the touchy-feely aspects of Christianity, and I would not say they tend to be Christians at all. They are really just bullies who think they've found a comfortable position from which to attack other people. They do not always call themselves "theists" or "monotheists," but you never hear them talking about Jesus Christ or anything that Christianity really stands for. What makes them different is a complete lack of values, Christian or otherwise.

In any case, I hope that you will reconsider your assumptions about atheists, and I hope to have many productive conversations with you in the future. Take care, now.
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i'm not sure that i do make assumptions about atheists in general. shit, here we have a sticky just to try to define what one is. i think people can have a very different motivation for believing the exact same things. from what you said in the OP, it just seemed to me that was your motivation in particular. i however do not believe in god because it makes me happy. that's irrelevant.
 
What about not believing in god because there is no evidence to justify a belief in god? Before you go on to state your experience of god remember that this is not reasonable evidence for others to believe in a god or gods or what have you.

His reasons are his reasons and they seem to me no less valid than the reasons you or sam would use to justify your beliefs. The whole notion that there is something 'religious' about atheism is some flappy jingoism drummed up by theists to try and 'nullify' the effects of atheism as individuals tend to grow and become in a secular society. The religious have to think about their god they have to ritualize their beliefs and keep 'it' in mind. Atheism does not require such activity nor immersion.
 
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Lucysnow said:
...Before you go on to state your experience of god remember that this is not reasonable evidence for others to believe in a god or gods or what have you...
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It is not even reasonable evidence for the person experiencing it.
 
You're sweet but gullible. There is no good reason to trust your perceptions implicitly. We are subject to all sorts of illusions- optical illusions, magic tricks, altered states of mind, delusions, insanity, mass hysteria, hallucinations. If you cannot cross check your hypothesis in some other way, you should not trust it.
 
spidergoat said:
You're sweet but gullible. There is no good reason to trust your perceptions implicitly. We are subject to all sorts of illusions- optical illusions, magic tricks, altered states of mind, delusions, insanity, mass hysteria, hallucinations. If you cannot cross check your hypothesis in some other way, you should not trust it.
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it's cross-checked. and if you have no reason to trust your perceptions implicitly, then why are you so sure of your own?
 
S.A.M. said:
All your list tells me is why you are not a theist.

Why are you an atheist?
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I have to agree with this, to a point. The list sounds more like why you are NOT a Christian vs why you are an Atheist.

I've never heard Muslims, Jews, Sikhs...talk about being saved, or trying to convert me, bug me on my day off, harass me for not following their beliefs...

You've read the Bible, the Christian holy book. Have you read the "bible" of any other religions?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Christian. I don't belong to any organized religion. The personality tests that are supposed to peg your religion to your belief structure always put Atheist for me at #3. Nos. 1 & 2 jump around, but that 3rd one is always the same.
 
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