Ten reasons that I am an atheist

[parmalee]

Originally Posted by Lori_7
wow, that's cool.

i love music. my brother's a musician. and an atheist. when i told him about the writing, and that i felt i was channeling something, he said that musicians often feel that way too.

anything i could listen too?

Lots, but PM me if you are actually interested. That's what I was getting at with the occupational import of, well, the irrational (not exactly, but for want of a better term) to me. And the matter of untapped creativity and imagination.

Do you ever document dreams? Can you lucid dream? I think you'll find that you do in fact possess such creative and imaginative capabilities, you just can't necessarily exercise such consciously or willfully. I mean, as per dreams, YOU came up with the material and with lucid dreaming you have some measure of control over it.

Keep in mind that I am in no way disputing your claim to the experience(s) (though I think you already know this, but just to be clear), nor am I questioning the "meaning" which you ascribe, but rather just your interpretation of the underlying cause. Would it diminish the meaningfulness of the experience were you to attribute it to something biological, say?

Justification sometimes cheapens.

And I've already exceeded my one minute "rule."

 

[Alien Cockroach]

By the way, one of the more peculiar aspects of my life is that I do clearly have dreams, and they are very vivid. However, they very very rarely have coherent plots of any variety whatsoever, no matter how clearly I recall them. The only exception to this is under the circumstances of suffering from chronic stress, and I am often suffering from seasonal affective disorder at the time. I tend to be very prone to suggestion in general under these particular circumstances. Otherwise, I do have dreaming states, but I don't have anything readily identifiable as dreams.

They are more akin to the phantasmagoria that I get during those minor convulsions that I have prior to falling asleep. Unlike the "dreaming" I experience, I am perfectly aware during the evolution of these phantasmagoria from rudimentary cycling of my internal thoughts to more elaborate, ornate constructs. I construct them deliberately as a means of inducing sleep. No, it is not "just" my imagination being active. Prior to becoming aware that I am suffering a convulsion, I find that they are extraordinarily vivid. When the convulsion has passed, I am simply incapable of returning to that state of mind, but I do feel incredibly refreshed. In fact, I find them so rejuvenating that sometimes I can't actually fall to sleep again for a few hours.

The only manner in which my "dreaming" is different is that it's nowhere near as pleasant as these little phantasmagoria. While my little constructs are usually based on happy reflection, speculation, and daydreaming, the "dreaming" is often associated with an uncomfortable sense of urgency.

 

[Adstar]

Well, let's take this and put it in a different perspective. Let's say that you are a Christian, and you have had a lot of bad luck at getting atheists to take an interest in Christianity.

Funny that. I have never really gone out doing my best to get athiests interested in Christianity. It's athiests that come in like a flood, there are so many athiests interested in Christianity i am often run off my feet trying to handle all the interest. Of course most of the interest is negative interest. A lot of athiest want to shake their fist at Christianity and they seek for and love the opertunity to have a Christian in frount of them to rant at. Why do you think this section is so popular?

For me any interest is good interest, even if the other person is only interested in biting my head off. because it gives me a chance to express my beliefs to others.

If you knew that a lot of atheists. my young self being one of them, had the perception that Christianity demands some kind of spiritual uniform, how could you use this information? How could you use this to make your apologetics more appealing and less offensive to the young atheist?

Well not sure if i could. Suffice to say that the true "spiritual Uniform" comes from God, not from man. You mention the catholic uniform and the protestant uniform, maybe the offence comes from a belief that the uniform is one imposed by other men on man. If one believed that the uniform was from a perfect God then the uniform would be seen as a warm coat in a cold and harsh world. not as a straight jacket in a mental asylum

In any case, I guess that the purpose of the OP was to explore the different things that motivate me to be an atheist. I think that is a very interesting subject in itself, and I hoped that it could generate some very valuable discussion on what makes us tick. It was really all about insight.

I read your questions. Apart from that one i inquired about, i saw them as a kind of rant from a person that was not really interested in discussing things at all. To me it looks like someone shaking their fist at God. Maybe with a view to provoke a response? Personally i like dealing with specifics. A lot of your statements where not that specific and where not written in a way that would invite discussion. They read like stark, take it or leave it statements.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[swarm]

Wow! What a bucnh of atheists!

 

[S.A.M.]

To a very large extent, yes. This is one of the reasons that I personally am an atheist, so it would be perfectly accurate to accuse me of having an "emotional" investment in remaining an atheist. It is very much my comfort zone. If you were a Christian or affiliated with a different religion from Christianity, you would start convincing me to change my opinions by trying to interest me in venturing outside my comfort zone.

In a way, this list can function as an instruction manual for a religious person who wants to affect a change in my beliefs without the discussion resulting in hurt feelings or ill-will on either side. I do not not mind people who are interested in persuading me to convert to their religious beliefs. In fact, I find it flattering in a way. When I meet one of those Christians who really mean well for me, I may not change the way I believe, but I almost always feel good about my experience with that person. If that kind of person came back to me the next day and said, "hey, why don't you visit my church with me next morning?" I have to admit, based on many proofs of this theory, that I would be very tempted to go along. If there were more Christians in the world who made that kind of impression on me, we would not be having this conversation. I would probably be attending Church every Sunday, and I would have better things to do than muck around on these forums. The list isn't intended to persuade anybody. It's intended to represent ME.

If I started quoting philosophers and trying to concoct persuasive arguments, I would be lying to myself and about myself, and that goes strongly against my values.

Arguably, yes. The majority of atheists, in the United States of America, I suspect that most people who identify as "atheist" are effectively "aChristian." I do not interact with Hindus, for example, nearly often enough that I can say, in all due honesty, that I have unequivocally concluded that Hinduism is a false religion. It is not really to my credit that I do not know more about it.

This was not intended as an argument. It was intended to represent my reasons for being an atheist. Part of the reason that I am so adamant in being an atheist is due to my encounters with "theists," most of which have been remarkably unpleasant. I find them to be a highly revolting group of people, and I feel that these are people who are simply born morally defective. Their very existence is an argument for abortion because theists, my friend, have gone quite a long way in challenging my faith in humanity. Interacting with a self-described "theist" can even result in me suffering from thoughts of suicide. I honestly hate them, and my hatred for people who fit into this category is one of my motivations for being an atheist. Christianity and other religions are going to continue to shrink until these asinine people simply shut the fuck up.

Indeed. Many religious people report that religious observation results in a reduction in their stress levels, and many people worldwide value spirituality and their interactions with their faith community for controlling their day-to-day stress. Because my stress levels are naturally a lot lower than those of most people, this is not something that would motivate me to assume an interest in religion or spirituality.

And I am afraid that I have never had any such experiences, and I am not really sure how far to trust other people's interpretations of their own experiences.

Well, it's about time somebody recognized it! It's an answer to the so-called "Pascal's Wager" that most people don't actually think of. Most people don't really have the imagination to contemplate a hypothetical deity that considers atheists to be his Elect.

Precisely. When I state my incredulity when someone says, "I had a religious experience," I am not trying to deride that person's judgement or honesty. Not intentionally, anyway. I am simply familiar with a number of alternative explanations for them that fit more neatly into my simple, limited understanding of the world around me.


I know. I really just wanted to make it a round number, and it kind of flopped. However, I do tend to find it very suspicious when a religious person says, "Well, you have to take the leap of faith first, and then you'll get your proof." At that point, they sound a lot like a drug-pusher.

Well, if I don't feel like I'm dealing with pusher scum, I tend to find their concern for me to be very charming.

One of the reasons that I don't discuss my atheism much anymore is that, lately, I find myself getting along very well with religious people, and I tend to be a lot more sporting than I used to be.

May I shake your hand? Its a pleasure to meet an atheist I can agree with.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

One of the reasons that I don't discuss my atheism much anymore is that, lately, I find myself getting along very well with religious people, and I tend to be a lot more sporting than I used to be.

Believe it or not I am more or less the same. I save my alter ego persona for this forum. I actually am very professional in my dealings within the real world and I get along with a great many people, plus I can't even think of an enemy I may have.

The point is, I don't think there is a theist on this forum who would recognize me as an atheist if they happened to encounter me somewhere along their journey. Not only do I not talk atheism, I don't talk about anything religious when amongst others. I deflect it or casually show indifference, non-committal is another way to drive a theist nuts but they soon get the message that you don't want to be part of a religious discussion. They seem to be ok with that.

It wasn't always that way but I learned my lesson many years ago as a young man.....if you want friends then stay away from openly discussing religion. I don't preach atheism in public and I don't belong to any organized atheist groups.

There are ways to identify a religious person and much of it has to do with what they wear and how they talk. Religious paraphrenalia and body markings the most obvious. When I observe two women walking up my driveway, both with skirts down to their ankles, it's easy to imagine them as religious peddlers(they were). Atheists are usually devoid of such things, maybe that's why I get asked about my religious leanings. I find some theists generally speak a different dialect, a slightly more cleaner lingo(less profanity) without directing uncomplimentary remarks towards deities. I think most atheists will agree that a lot of religious folk have a certain look about them. I can't explain it but it is definitely there.

Anyway what I'm really saying is that on the street I am nothing like I am here. In public, you wouldn't know I was an atheist if it hit you in the head. Perhaps I'm being over confident and to be fair I'll ask just how do atheists give themselves away in public without actually professing their religiosity?

 

[(Q)]

#4 I do want a spirituality...

This is probably the only thing you said that had value, the rest was a load of horsepucky. And, it pretty much sums up your reasoning for being a theist.

Lots of people are turning to atheism, often with very good reasons.
However, atheism is a reaction AGAINST a belief system. You must have some other (more positive) source for your values etc... e.g. humanism?

You must first demonstrate that whatever values your theism purports is any different from the values derived through evolution long before your belief system existed.