Swine Flue Conspiracy

[Doreen]

Some. Yes. All. No.

But they are not all for the vaccines. Many are skeptical, especially when it concerns themselves and their children. And, of course, the thread started with reference to a doctor who is skeptical about the virus and the vaccines.

You're comparing apples to oranges. We're not dealing with some covert operation that has a small piece of information controlled by a select group of high-ranking government officials. We're talking about a virus that is currently being analyzed by thousands of individuals in hundreds of labs around the world. Furthermore, we're talking about a vaccine, which is produced the same way as all other flu vaccines have been produced over the past few decades. This vaccine can be analyzed by any number of laboratories and tested against placebos by literally HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of medical professionals around the world.

But the issue is not whether it exists, it is how dangerous it is, where it came from, the risk invovled in the vaccines, etc.

To follow YOUR analogy, the H1N1 virus would have to be totally secret and identifiable by a small group of government officials. It is not. The two situations do not even remotely compare.

Sure they do. AGain, the issue is not whether there is a virus - the parallel to the dictator Sadaam - the issue is whether he was a threat in the ways he was said to be. And a nice parallel to the most severe conspiracy theories is that Sadaam was in part a Western creation, armed with Western weapons.

I think it is a nice analogy.

Analysis of the threat = estimates of danger of virus + estimates of danger of SH
Dangers of suggested response = dangers of the vaccine + dangers of enacting a war

I think both responses will in the long run be seen to cause much more suffering and death than the original threat.

You are making the issue the existence of the virus. I have no doubt it exists. As I said earlier, I am pretty sure I had it. I never get headaches, but I had a viral something - clear snot, wooziness - with a serious headache - a tell tale symptom I am told of the swine flu virus. However I do not believe it is as dangerous as they say. I do not think the vaccines are safe and I think this is known by the manufacturers and obviously the German government who ordered a clean version. I do wonder if the virus was created by Baxter Ltd, an act that would be financially incredibly lucrative.

For more see my response to REad-Only above. The long one with links.

As far as doctors and the vaccine

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/aug/24/doctors-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/s...-of-swine-flu-vaccine-among-health-staff.html

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldne...sing-h1n1-vaccine-over-fears-its-too-new.html

Nurses sued in Albany and won against being pressured to take the vaccine

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/nyregion/17vaccine.html

I found these links in just a couple of minutes of searching.

And consider how dangerous it might be both professionally and financially to come out against the vaccine, especially in the US with its litigation laws. To come out for the vaccine incurs very little risk. To speak out against is very risky since if someone listens to the doctor and does not vaccinate their child and the child dies....bang. But doctors and nurses are voting by not getting vaccinated and many, on You tube for example, are taking the risk and going public with their concerns about the vaccine.

 

[John99]

The flu has been around for centuries, maybe since the beginning of mankind. It does kill many people, no reason for crazy conspiracies.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

Some more diseases:

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diseases

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
All conspericy nuts see dismissal of ther pet conspericy as irrational ”

Origionaly posted by Dorene
You noticed my post and see it as irrational and me as a nut. How is it you missed the irrationality of Acid Cowboys argument?

The mos irrational thang Acid Cowboy did was to present "any" argument to a conspericy nut... because "they" have the luxury of makin up any bs necesary to suport ther "theory".!!!

A lot of people thank its "posin" but im gettin my h1n1 shot tomorow... are you gonna get you'rs.??? ”

Nope. I also got swine flu.

Me, I'll keep my immune system healthy. Let's talk again 5 years down the road when the vaccine has had time to work on your immune system.

Well i had flue in 1978 an for a day or so i didnt have strength to even walk... sinse then ive had 31 flue vaccunatons but no mor flue... an if im killin my immune system so be it... but so far i ant herd good enuff evidence to keep me from gettin the shots.!!!

Do you thank "Aids" was created by man/goverment to harm certan people... do you thank man didnt actualy walk on the moon... ect... ect.. or is "swine flue" the only conspericy theroy you thank is true.???

 

[Doreen]

The mos irrational thang Acid Cowboy did was to present "any" argument to a conspericy nut... because "they" have the luxury of makin up any bs necesary to suport ther "theory".!!!

Um, I didn't make up bs, I linked to articles in respected newspapers and journals.

A lot of people thank its "posin" but im gettin my h1n1 shot tomorow... are you gonna get you'rs.??? ”

Answered this.

Do you thank "Aids" was created by man/goverment to harm certan people... do you thank man didnt actualy walk on the moon... ect... ect.. or is "swine flue" the only conspericy theroy you thank is true.???

So you couldn't deal with the arguments - see posts 13 and 21 - I presented on this issue and you are trying to find some other issue we should talk about....or?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Um, I didn't make up bs, I linked to articles in respected newspapers and journals.

Then it mus be true :shrug: ???
-----------------------------

Do you thank "Aids" was created by man/goverment to harm certan people... do you thank man didnt actualy walk on the moon... ect... ect.. or is "swine flue" the only conspericy theroy you thank is true.???

So you couldn't deal with the arguments - see posts 13 and 21 - I presented on this issue...

I didnt pay any attenton to the "arguments".!!!
---------------

and you are trying to find some other issue we should talk about....or?

No i have no desire to argue the moon or Aids conspericy theories ether... i jus wanted to juge you'r credibility by findin out whether you'r big into conspericy theories or not... but its up to you whether to answr or not.!!!

You mite be rite about "h1n1"... an mayb man didnt walk on the moon... an mayb the Aids virus is man-made to harm particular people... but i'll wate for verifiable evidence befor i do anythang mor than raize a eyebrow at such speculaton.!!!

 

[Doreen]

Then it mus be true :shrug: ???

OK. You are being disrespectful. I did not assert that they must be true and you know this. I clearly was responding to what I quoted, you saying we just make this stuff up. I can see you are incapable of discussing this in an honest, respectful manner. I will ignore you from here on out.

Do you thank "Aids" was created by man/goverment to harm certan people... do you thank man didnt actualy walk on the moon... ect... ect.. or is "swine flue" the only conspericy theroy you thank is true.???

I didnt pay any attenton to the "arguments".!!!

I guess that approach might lead to knowledge randomly. And clearly a sign of more lack of respect.

You mite be rite about "h1n1"... an mayb man didnt walk on the moon... an mayb the Aids virus is man-made to harm particular people... but i'll wate for verifiable evidence befor i do anythang mor than raize a eyebrow at such speculaton.!!!

Um, you moron. You did not read my arguments, yet somehow you know they are mere speculation. The strange thing is I have seen you be rational and respectful elsewhere. Maybe it's a bad day. But consider this. If you don't want to read posts in a thread, maybe you could consider not participating in the thread. Reading one sentence in one of my posts and then hallucinating is rude and, well, stupid. And it's hardly good role modeling for people you think are irrational, eh?

I'll be ignoring your rude self from here on out. Bye.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

you are being disrespectful.

...you moron.

Thanks for the laff

I remenber seein a pitcher in a paper of a little boy who had the head of a fish... i didnt take that story serously an i dout you woud ether... you see... we all have our own personal "BS"meters... an you'rs seems to be oK wit conspericy theories an mine dont :shrug:

 

[John99]

This is why the ancients did not educate the masses.

 

[John99]

And frankly, i agree with that.

 

[matthew809]

... but i'll wate for verifiable evidence befor i do anythang mor than raize a eyebrow at such speculaton.!!!

This statement summarizes the hopelessly passive approach that all anti-conspiracy nut jobs take, and exactly why government-sponsered conspirators are able to blatantly get away with any crime.

You all keep waiting for that evidence from your official media sources...

 

[Syzygys]

while getting rid of large amount of population all around the world.

Must be a misstranslation. Not getting ride of POPULATION but getting ride of STOCKPILE of vaccination.

Duh!

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
... but i'll wate for verifiable evidence befor i do anythang mor than raize a eyebrow at such speculaton.!!!

This statement summarizes the hopelessly passive approach that all anti-conspiracy nut jobs take, and exactly why government-sponsered conspirators are able to blatantly get away with any crime.

You all keep waiting for that evidence from your official media sources...

How do you deside when to take a rumer serously.???

 

[Read-Only]

This statement summarizes the hopelessly passive approach that all anti-conspiracy nut jobs take, and exactly why government-sponsered conspirators are able to blatantly get away with any crime.

You all keep waiting for that evidence from your official media sources...

It really wouldn't matter if someone intelligent DID convince you what a scam your conspiracy theory is - you'd just jump on another one and believe it just as easily. (In fact, you probably already have several favorites right now.) :shrug:

 

[matthew809]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
How do you deside when to take a rumer serously.???

Well it doesn't start at the rumor. It starts way before that. Your mind must be open and unbiased.

To an unbiased, scientific mind, "rumor" and "conspiracy" (and other such subjective distractions of evidence) are irrelevant.

All evidence should of course be taken seriously.

 

[matthew809]

It really wouldn't matter if someone intelligent DID convince you what a scam your conspiracy theory is - you'd just jump on another one and believe it just as easily. (In fact, you probably already have several favorites right now.) :shrug:

This previous statement is an example of a "subjective distraction of evidence"- in this case, specifically- ad hominem.

 

[Read-Only]

Well it doesn't start at the rumor. It starts way before that. Your mind must be open and unbiased.

To an unbiased, scientific mind, "rumor" and "conspiracy" (and other such subjective distractions of evidence) are irrelevant.

All evidence should of course be taken seriously.

Now THAT I'll buy.

So, in keeping with your final statement above, please show us "all evidence" you have that supports your junk theory. And absolutely NO personal blogs or wacko web sites!!!

 

[Read-Only]

This previous statement is an example of a "subjective distraction of evidence"- in this case, specifically- ad hominem.

No, it's not - it's valid observation of pretty much ALL conspiracy junkies. And I'm waiting for the evidence I asked for in my previous post.

 

[nietzschefan]

There is no conspiracy-secret they are making billions off it. Killing people, not so much...

 

[matthew809]

Now THAT I'll buy.

So, in keeping with your final statement above, please show us "all evidence" you have that supports your junk theory. And absolutely NO personal blogs or wacko web sites!!!

It's a complicated issue, not only in terms of the availability of relevant evidence, but in my ability to present that evidence to you in any compelling way. Frankly I'm not up for that impossible challenge.

There is a tangled web of information out there that should be actively scanned and processed by curious, open minds.

The best approach is to seek that information out yourself, not to wait for someone to change your mind for you.

 

[Read-Only]

It's a complicated issue, not only in terms of the availability of relevant evidence, but in my ability to present that evidence to you in any compelling way. Frankly I'm not up for that impossible challenge.

There is a tangled web of information out there that should be actively scanned and processed by curious, open minds.

The best approach is to seek that information out yourself, not to wait for someone to change your mind for you.

Nope, I have NO interest in lilting at ghost windmills. (And frankly, I didn't expect you to provide any solid information - typical !!)