Suicides more likely to be atheists

Those poor kids. Someone should monitor their suicide levels/

Yeah.. someone better. At least less of them will be justifying their incorrect actions on a fairy tale. It would be great to have less religious homicidal maniacs and hopefully the world will see more honest people :D
 
Since they will also be killing themselves more frequently, I wonder what the moral imperative is here.
 
Since they will also be killing themselves more frequently, I wonder what the moral imperative is here.

Since its their own bodies they are welcome to prove natural selection right as much as they want to. The problem comes when they start stoning rape victims and such.. or effecting other peoples lives.
 
And natural selection so far has shown how successful atheism is as an ideology.

So yeah, let them go ahead and prove it. But to infect those poor kids with it to take them along. Its very sad.






WHO, Figures and facts about suicide, 1999
 
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Those poor kids. Someone should monitor their suicide levels/

What are you suggesting, that the absence of religion leads to increased suicide rates?

Heh, well, That's better than dooming millions to death through the indirect effects of religion..
 
Since they will also be killing themselves more frequently, I wonder what the moral imperative is here.

"The society does not consider itself to be a religious organisation and believes ethics have "no necessary connection with religion".
 
And natural selection so far has shown how successful atheism is as an ideology.

So yeah, let them go ahead and prove it. But to infect those poor kids with it to take them along. Its very sad.






WHO, Figures and facts about suicide, 1999


That doesn't count the suicide bombers amirite?? omfg lol
 
I don't think they would change the figures much, although one could argue that a martyr in the cause of freedom is not equivalent to disposing of your life from existential angst.
 
I don't think they would change the figures much, although one could argue that a martyr in the cause of freedom is not equivalent to disposing of your life from existential angst.

Funny, not so long ago you said that a monk sitting silent while his body burns down should be stopped, as any other suicidal person should.
Or the "one [who] could argue" just happens to not be you? :)
 
Of course they should, but killing yourself for a cause vs killing yourself because life is meaningless are opposite ends of the spectrum.

Would an atheist sacrifice his life for an idealogical cause, do you think?
 
I found SAMs graph on the correlation between suicide and religion interesting. Another article on this (more recent) is here:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108625/More-Religious-Countries-Lower-Suicide-Rates.aspx

Data from a 2005-6 Gallup poll bear outs SAM's data. But is religiosity the real factor? Findings:

1. Suicide rates are slightly higher in wealthier countries, but the correlation between religion and suicide is stronger than the correlation between wealth and suicide.

2. More religious countries may tend to underreport suicides. However, even when only less religious countries are counted, suicides tend to be higher in the less religious of those countries.

3. Greater social capital (community feeling etc.) could be hypothesised as responsible for lower suicide rates. However, if this was true, we might expect homicide rates to be lower in more religious countries. In fact, homicide rates tend to be higher in more religious countries.

4. Findings on a national level may not translate to a personal level. For example, in 2002, statistician Sterling Hilton and colleagues showed that among young men who were actively involved in the Mormon church, suicide rates were three to five times lower than those of either non-members or less active church members.

5. Religious people are much less likely than the general public to believe that suicide is "morally acceptable."

The article concludes that it is possible that religion serves as an antidote to the lack of purpose that can make a desperate act such as suicide seem appealing. Believing in something bigger than oneself may allow some people to hold onto life in a world where people without such a belief sometimes give up all hope. Another possibility is that some religious people may believe that committing suicide jeopardizes their security in an afterlife. Alternately, the human connections that people typically forge in religious groups may serve as a buffer against suicide. Whatever the reason for the religion-suicide link, these results suggest that leaders who wish to understand the well-being of a country must look beyond traditional economic indicators. When it comes to well-being, spiritual concerns may be at least as important as economic ones.

---

SAM's argument in this thread was that religious education is good because it reduces suicides, so children should be spared an evil "secular" education to protect them from suicide.

My argument, in reverse, could be that religious education is bad because it leads to an increased murder rate. Children should be spared evil religious education systems, because that way their chance of being murdered will be decreased.

What seems clear to me is that the kind of simplistic argument put forward by SAM needs a lot more research and support.
 
???

Who wants to be a computer? We're moving into a multicultural world, we in the west and east will be better served by teaching our children the archeological evidence for the basis of humanity's belief systems. We already do so for mostly dead beliefs like Greek and Egyptian Pantheons I think children are capable of understanding the same is true for Christianity and Judaism.

In essence it's giving children information.

Lastly, it's often been shown that people who are depressed score higher on these tests about the real world. As if most people are pre-programed to tell themselves little white lies to get by in life. It may be the such people come to the conclusion there is no God simply because they have a more realistic outlook. So that could be the correlation. So it's not atheism that causes suicide but people who are depressed are mire likely to see the world for what it truly is and thus more likely to be atheistic. That's the likely correlation. If we want to stop people from committing suicide then simply make it a major social stigma to do so. Run TV ad campaigns and offer serious support networks. Don't teach people they'll burn in hell if they do and it's better they live a depressed agonizing life but instead teach people they can and must get help and it's OK to do so.

Seems simple enough to me


If Athiests don't want to live, feel depressed then they should kill themselves - in large numbers. They don't believe in heaven or hell, when they die thats it, the end. Why should they have to live a sad depressed life for decades when they can end it in minutes and never have to feel pain or suffering?

For atheists, suicide should be encouraged. Why live a life of toil, breaking your back for others when it doesn't mean anything?
 
True, why get brainwashed into living by artificial external stigma?
 
How this has come to be a discussion of suicide rates is beyond me.. here's one attempt to bring it back to the subject matter of the OP.

What I would like to see is the students being given an opportunity to study all the religions and make up their own minds as to what they believe.

And they are. The courses are voluntary and no child is going to be forced into learning about religion or the lack of evidence of God. Parents can opt to have their children not sit those particular classes. Or the children can as well. So they can study all forms of religion or study none at all before they can make up their minds. But here's the thing that I don't seem to understand. You seem to think that they should only be taught religion but not the humanistic approach (eg. no evidence of God), which kind of goes against their being allowed to make up their own minds after seeing and learning about all sides.

To be allowed to make up one's own mind, one should be able to learn about all the sides of the equation, not just one side.

I personally think this is a good idea. Children can finally have a choice in their religious education and the same goes for parents as well.

I mean, you lack...empathy. Or rather fail to practise it. I put it down to a lack of imagination.
Funny. Maybe you should give Ghost the same little lecture about his lack of empathy when he advocated for the mass suicide of atheists. Oh wait, was this it?

True, why get brainwashed into living by artificial external stigma?

Amazing how you can lack what you accuse others of lacking if you happen to agree with it, eh Sam?:)
 
3. Greater social capital (community feeling etc.) could be hypothesised as responsible for lower suicide rates. However, if this was true, we might expect homicide rates to be lower in more religious countries. In fact, homicide rates tend to be higher in more religious countries.


Though the West leads the World in technological advances and scientific breakthroughs they have massive problems regarding social issues. There are massive issues with the family unit being eradicated, the concept of marriage no longer taken seriously, a ridiculously high divorce rate, children born out of wedlock, unstable upbringings. And no one cares, members of parliament, prime ministers, presidents, no one gives a shit! the people that run our countries do not even mention these issues. They pretend its not their business, there is no moral order, only chaos.

Now religion is more than just believing in God, it is a culture, a way of life. Religion is meeting up with family and friends, religion is going to weddings, get togethers, having people in the community meet up and discuss issues affecting them all (happens in Mosques, Churches etc). When you attack the whole concept of religion without any understanding you are at risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Religion can help tackle social issues.
 
Amazing how you can lack what you accuse others of lacking if you happen to agree with it, eh Sam?

Not at all, I am advocating pro-choice and critical thinking. Right to die and so on. Minus any social brainwashing on arbitrary concepts such as the value of life. Make suicide, drugs etc more socially acceptable instead of imposing religious notions of suicide as sin. Independent thinking. Maybe pharmacists could dispense potassium cyanide once the person has made an informed choice and so on. We can form a support group to help them through the process.:p
 
Those poor kids. Someone should monitor their suicide levels/

And natural selection so far has shown how successful atheism is as an ideology.

So yeah, let them go ahead and prove it. But to infect those poor kids with it to take them along. Its very sad.






WHO, Figures and facts about suicide, 1999

SAM,

Please cite the page number(s) on that publication from which you construct your graph. My contention is that this is contrived, if not invented, information and, thus, trolling.

If you are unable to find the page number(s) to provide a proper citation, please delete your posts or at least concede that you invented the information.
 
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