Are we discussing me, or our perceptions of the video?
Street Harrassment.!!!
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I'm interested in why you would think that those guys were not harassing that girl.
Only thing I can come up with is that you think it's normal behaviour.
Well thats a whole different question than
Do you behave the same way as those guys isnt it?
What I said was I dont consider most of the stuff Harassment. And the stuff that I would question is marginal (within my self determined +/- error bar of bias).
Normal behavior... a cultural/regional/home/religious/societal/etc conditioning.
Yes, it does.sculptor said:
Depending on how it's distributed, of course. In this case, 100+ separate incidents in less than ten hours according to the comments here, which is about one for every five or six minutes evenly distributed.
If you found out that most of the women experiencing it did feel harassed, would that affect your considerations?milkweed said:
Is it possible in your view for the normal operation of a given "cultural/regional/home/religious/societal" setup to include harassment of some of its members, or is that impossible by definition?
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milkweed,
Let me suggest something to you. The equivalent experience for a man would be sitting on a train (say) and having some big guy start talking to you across the carriage, saying "What are you looking at?" when you're just doing what everybody does on a train.
Do you think that kind of behaviour would be harassing or intimidating at all?
See, for men the implied threat is usually violence. For women, it's sexual violence. Because men are the perpetrators in both cases, most of the time. The guy trying to pick a fight with you in a bar because you glanced at "his girl" is the male equivalent of some of the guys you're seeing in the video here.
So, a big guy just walking along beside you inside your personal space is not at all harassing, you say. But you're sending mixed messages. First you say that you would have felt uncomfortable if that happened to you. But then, all of a sudden, your own feelings don't count - it's all about whether third parties notice anything or react. It seems to me that you're trying to distance yourself from the woman's experience and to put yourself in the shoes of a distant observer. Why is that?
Did the guy offer protection? Why didn't he say "Hey there. Would you like me to walk alongside you in case some nasty men try to walk alongside you uninvited?" In fact, why didn't he say anything for the whole five minutes he was walking with her?
How would you feel if some guy started walking silently beside you, following your every move for five minutes? You'd be fine with it, would you? Not at all concerned about your wallet, or with moving away?
That's because you're part of the problem, it seems.
I notice how you avoided answering the direct question that was put to you. Do you greet women who are strangers on the street? Do you cat call? Do you walk silently beside women? And if not, why not? Don't you want to protect them?
If you're young and attractive you should be up for a bit of harassment. Right? You should see it as a good thing. It means somebody wants to rape you, which is better than people ignoring you.
Let me suggest something to you. The equivalent experience for a man would be sitting on a train (say) and having some big guy start talking to you across the carriage, saying "What are you looking at?" when you're just doing what everybody does on a train.
Do you think that kind of behaviour would be harassing or intimidating at all?
See, for men the implied threat is usually violence. For women, it's sexual violence. Because men are the perpetrators in both cases, most of the time. The guy trying to pick a fight with you in a bar because you glanced at "his girl" is the male equivalent of some of the guys you're seeing in the video here.
So, a big guy just walking along beside you inside your personal space is not at all harassing, you say. But you're sending mixed messages. First you say that you would have felt uncomfortable if that happened to you. But then, all of a sudden, your own feelings don't count - it's all about whether third parties notice anything or react. It seems to me that you're trying to distance yourself from the woman's experience and to put yourself in the shoes of a distant observer. Why is that?
Did the guy offer protection? Why didn't he say "Hey there. Would you like me to walk alongside you in case some nasty men try to walk alongside you uninvited?" In fact, why didn't he say anything for the whole five minutes he was walking with her?
How would you feel if some guy started walking silently beside you, following your every move for five minutes? You'd be fine with it, would you? Not at all concerned about your wallet, or with moving away?
That's because you're part of the problem, it seems.
I notice how you avoided answering the direct question that was put to you. Do you greet women who are strangers on the street? Do you cat call? Do you walk silently beside women? And if not, why not? Don't you want to protect them?
If you're young and attractive you should be up for a bit of harassment. Right? You should see it as a good thing. It means somebody wants to rape you, which is better than people ignoring you.
Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
I was watching when Gayle King said the following. I guess Bells can't speak for every woman, eh?
http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/9172-woman-gets-100-cat-calls-in-10-hours
The guy in the pic in the link I posted is wearing a cross. I wonder if he is the religious type, like this guy:
http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/9172-woman-gets-100-cat-calls-in-10-hours
The guy in the pic in the link I posted is wearing a cross. I wonder if he is the religious type, like this guy:
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Suggest all you want but its Not the same thing. Women were not subjecting this woman to "What are you looking at?" questions on a train/subway (though it happens).
Most men are not rapists and anyone who goes through life thinks such things is leaning a bit towards paranoid. And its unhealthy for a person to go though life fearing casual interaction.
Sorry but I see those casual comments in the video as Meant to Compliment. Things I heard that bordered on uncouth but not harassment.
Because I watched the video again and contemplated that maybe the mans motive WASNT nefarious because well... Most Men Are Not Rapists. And maybe I shouldnt assign negative behavior to everything I encounter when dealing with the multitude of personalities (mostly harmless) that exist in this world.
Well, maybe if she had said leave me alone when he first said Hey rather than ignore him he would not have Walked Alongside Her. And we dont know what he would have done if she would have clued him, you are making me uncomfortable because she remained silent.
And here we go. I am part of the problem because I see things from a different point of view. Because I dont feel threatened by the multitude of human interactions and I dont automatically assign wicked, evil, sinful, iniquitous, egregious, heinous, atrocious, vile, foul, abominable, odious, depraved, monstrous, fiendish, diabolical, unspeakable, despicable, sexually motivated attributes to people.
Are you so sure Your not part of the problem?
Being as you know pretty much Absolutely nothing about me, who are you to determine what I should see as a good/bad thing? You think its harassment. I dont.
That's a twirl and a "thank you" every five minutes, every time you walk down the street, every day all day for twenty years.motor daddy said:
Try it yourself.
Good thing these pretty girls have nothing better to do, isn't it.
Yep. A point of view that supports and excuses and defends street harassment of women is a large part of the problem.milkweed said:
No kidding. So subjecting a woman to abusive "casual" interactions every time she walks down the public sidewalk creates an unhealthy situation - right?milkweed said:
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Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
What street in Kansas are you referring to?
Are you suggesting that a lady walks 24/7/365/20??? If not, how many calls does she get per every 5 minutes when she's sleeping 8/7/365/20?
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No idea. You would know your neighborhood better than I - which streets should women avoid, in Kansas, if they don't want to have to twirl and say "thank you" to potentially dangerous creeps once a block or so?motor daddy said:
No. Is your attempt at deflection by playing stupid deliberate?motor daddy said:
btw: I know some women who are homely, not pretty. They get harassed also. "My dog looks better'n you on bike" from a passing car window, for example. Aside from the difficulty of twirling and saying "thank you" while riding a bicycle, carrying packages or briefcases, etc, how would you have them respond in general - a tactic they can prepare, keep in mind, and use every time they leave the house?
How would you respond the five hundredth time, the five thousandth, it happened to you?
Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
So you're saying women should avoid streets in Kansas, but you're not sure which streets those are? How do you differentiate the creep from the kind neighbor? If the kind neighbor says you look nice in that dress, do you turn to him and call him a harassing creep? If not, what is different about the guy on the street that tells you you look nice in that dress?
No, I'm trying to make heads or tails of your bizarre statements. Just how many times does a woman get harassed walking down Pennsylvania Ave for 10 hours? Then how do you equate those numbers to every 5 minutes for 20 years?? You make stupid statements I'll call you on them all day long! Stupid is stupid, period!
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Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
Maybe you could ask the Stars from Hollywood how they react to so much attention. Let's see, Kim, Lindsey, Amanda, Brittney, Madonna, Beyonce, Hanna Montana...
They hate it!
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Why yes - how am I supposed to know which are the bad streets in Kansas?motor daddy said:
If you guys in Kansas don't distinguish kind neighbors from harassing creeps, the women in Kansas have bigger problems than anyone knew.motor daddy said:
Nope.motor daddy said:
Uh, lessee: he's not your neighbor, he's not being kind, there are many guys like him pestering you whenever you walk down the street, they are acting like creeps, it's a pain in the neck to deal with him and a continual threat of escalation if you fail to deal with him, he's a stranger with no accountability to you or anyone, you have other things to do than twirl and say "thank you" to him or somebody like him every block of your daily travels,motor daddy said:
are these differences invisible to you? Are you honestly unable, yourself, to distinguish street harassment from neighborly friendliness ?
They hire bodyguards, hide their routes and dwellings and identities and phone numbers, send assistants to run their errands, and so forth. It's a continual problem and a serious threat, to them.motor daddy said:
So you are claiming honest inability to read with comprehension. That makes sense - I'll try to anticipate your special needs in the future.motor daddy said:
Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
So do you also recommend to other women to avoid walking down the street/streets the video was recorded, now that you know that this woman was harassed over 100 times in 10 hours? Do you have a list of all known dangerous streets for women? Did you add this street to the list? How many streets are dangerous in NY, CA, and MA, compared to Kansas, Texas, and Nebraska? Is there any correlation between red and blue states, where one or the other are more or less dangerous for women to walk down streets?
Are all neighbors guys now? Are all harassing creeps male?
Why not? He commented on your appearance, that's a no no, right? Or is the problem that too many compliments are a hassle for you to deal with?
Define neighbor (distance wise)?
They both said, "you look nice in that dress."
Now pestering is saying, "you look nice in that dress"? So the neighbor is pestering too, no? They said the same thing, so he/she is pestering too!
By saying "you look nice in that dress"?
Now it's a threat to tell someone they look nice in that dress?
So now he's a lawless son of a bitch if he tells you you look nice in that dress?
Sure, but does that make him a pestering, lawless, POS because you're in a hurry and he is the 59th person to tell you you look good in that dress?
No, I've outlined my comments on your comments about those differences.
Are you honestly unable to distinguish between a truck load of compliments, and harassment? Do you get confused when 104 neighbors tell you, nice dress? Is it all so overwhelming you just want to be able to walk down the street without anyone telling you, nice dress?
So people telling them they look great in that dress is seriously threatening?? Wow!! You have a warped sense of reality.
Comprehend what, how many times my mother (a woman) got cat called when she walked down Pennsylvania Ave for 20 years for 24/7/365 and counted the total calls? You're out of your mind!
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Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
I want to see the video of Hillary walking down Main Street Kansas, for 10 hours.
...and after that, Gayle King!
It's not me hiring the bodyguards, hiding my phone number, employing professionals to run my daily errands that require walking down the public street. It's those Hollywood stars you recommended I look to for examples of how to handle all this friendly neighborliness women find themselves immersed in while walking down the public sidewalk.motor daddy said:
That was your recommendation for examples. Are their methods your recommendations for how women should deal with this shit? Kind of expensive.
Not at all. Neither are most women - so when they tell you they are being harassed, you might want to pay attention. And when they post a simple little documentary video, it's especially easy for you - no reading comprehension issues.motor daddy said:
I want to see the video of how the bodyguards handle you when you follow Gayle King down the street telling her she looks nice in that dress.motor daddy said:
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Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
So they go to all that trouble because people tell them they look great? I think you're trying to roll up their total security requirements into the "nice dress" prevention security. Prove it! Prove that all they spend is to combat "nice dress."
So when I tell a woman, nice dress, and she tells me to get lost you loser lawless creep, I know I should never tell a woman that she looks great in that dress, ever! That would make me look like a loser lawless creep. On the other hand, if a woman tells a woman nice dress, well, what a loser lawless creep she is, indeed!
That woud make this type of "man" behavior selected by evolution... but as far as the poll goes:::
"What is the main reason you thank Men behave like they did in the OP video.???"
Of course its a combination... but i voted for nurture... because all those guys in the video woud have behaved more appropreately if they hadnt been raised in an invironment which promotes that type of behavior.!!!
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