Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran

[Proud_Syrian]

Dr.Tarig Al Swaidan discovered some verses in the Holy Qur'an that mention one thing is equal to another, i.e. men are equal to women.

Although this makes sense grammatically, the astonishing fact is that the number of times the word man appears in the Qur'an is 24 and number of times the word woman appears is also 24, therefore not only is this phrase correct in the grammatical sense but also true mathematically, i.e. 24 = 24.

Upon further analysis of various verses, he discovered that this is consistent throughout the whole Qur'an, where it says one thing is like another. See below for astonishing result of the words mentioned number of times in Arabic Qur'an: Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran

Al-Dunya (This world) 115
Al-Akhira (The hereafter) 115
Al-Mala'ikah (Angles) 88
Al-Shayateen (Satan) 88
Al-Hayat (Life) 145
Al-Maout (Death) 145
Al-Rajul (Man) 24
Al-Mar'ha (Women) 24
Benefi't 50
Corrupt 50
People 50 .. Messengers 50
Eblees (king of devils) 11 . Seek refuge from Eblees 11
Museebah (calamity) 75 . Thanks 75
Spending (Sadaqah) 73 . Satisfaction 73
People who are mislead 17 . Dead people 17
Muslimeen 41 . Jihad 41
Magic 60 . Fitnah (dissuasion, misleading) 60
Zakat (Taxes Muslims pay to the poor) 32 . Barakah (Increasing or blessings of wealth) 32
Mind 49 . Noor 49
Tongue 25 . Sermon 25
Speaking publicly 18 . Publicising 18
Hardship 114 .... Patience 114

Al-Yahom (Day) mentioned 365

Al-bahar (Sea) 32
Al-bar (Land) 13

If we add up the total words of both "sea" and "land" we get 45. Now if we do a simple calculation:
32/45 X 100% = 71.11111111%
13/45 X 100% = 28.88888888%

Above is what we know today, the percentages of Water (Sea) and Land in the world. Yet another miracle in the Quran.

The Miracles of the Quran will never end. There will never be a time where mankind can fully take in the knowledge that is in this holy book. It is a miracle to all mankind, the word of God. There is no value that one can set to the words of the Creator. It is a treasure of which guides those that want to succeed in this life and the hereafter.

To read the English translation of the Noble Quran, please click here, this site is the best site on the net regarding the Noble Quran:

http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/naeindex.htm

 

[Judas]

Quran......Noble?


First of all there are also Jewish groupings that claim the can
use numbers from the Tora, and make formulas to predict the
future, and confirm events that has allready happened.
If you are here to convert people then you are in the wrong
place. Your "Noble" quran is just a rip-off of the Holy Bible.

 

[Tiassa]

Yeah, Judas, but ....

Yes, Judas, but those Jewish mystics can't even accomplish this simple miracle of correspondence.

Walk into the Louvre. Look at the paintings. Turn to the first Frenchman you see and say, "You know, my child can use colored paints to make pictures."

It's the same thing, isn't it? Two-bit Jewish-mystic hacks versus an alleged single author who happens to pull off some rather subtle correspondences?

Right, Judas. It's remotely the same thing.

:m:,
Tiassa

 

[Judas]

Im not Jewish(not that theres anything wrong with beeing
Jewish) but i ment that all sortsa people can come up with
all kinds of propaganda non-sense

 

[Ren]

I just ate PORK, hmm delicious you should try it some time...

 

[Tiassa]

Judas

Fair 'nuff.

I just think they're separate enough ideas to note a difference.

:m:,
Tiassa

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Judas
Quran......Noble?


First of all there are also Jewish groupings that claim the can
use numbers from the Tora, and make formulas to predict the
future, and confirm events that has allready happened.
If you are here to convert people then you are in the wrong
place. Your "Noble" quran is just a rip-off of the Holy Bible.

I dont need to comment on your nonesense.....LOL

 

[Raithere]

The only astonishing figure is that the land:sea word ratio is very close to Earth's actual land:sea ratio. The rest can easily be accomplished by any talented writer with the desire and patience to do so. Numerological tricks, while a fascinating exploration of the intricacies of mathematics, really are not particularly impressive in regards to meaning or content.

Whether we're dealing with the various Bible or Shakespearean 'codes' or the statistical 'miracles' of the Quran the 'decoding' of such works is meaningless. Given that there is no set key for decoding these works a key is invented. The problem is that one might invent a key to decode a text into any other text redering any particular key meaningless. As an aside, whenever 'guessing' ratios it is never a bad idea to stick around 80:20. Any typical bell curve distribution will make it likely for you to be close to the mark.

Not that I'm saying that the Quran is not a sublime piece of literature. I don't read Arabic and have no basis for individual judgment but I respect the opinions of the experts who regard it highly. Still, seeing as that only one of the number sets discovered would have been beyond the ken of man at the time I find 'miraculous' to be a bit of a push.

~Raithere

P.S. Thanks for the link. I've read most of the Quran in bits and pieces and it'll be nice to have a solid reference.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Ren
I just ate PORK, hmm delicious you should try it some time...

Good for you, you should also realize that scientists discovered a possible linke between SARS and PIGS:

http://www.sarsandpigs.blogspot.com/

http://www.hhv6.freeservers.com/PigsandSARS.htm

The more I read scinece, the more Muslim I become, this great Book, the noble quran is amazing scientific miracle.

http://www.it-is-truth.org

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Raithere
The only astonishing figure is that the land:sea word ratio is very close to Earth's actual land:sea ratio. The rest can easily be accomplished by any talented writer with the desire and patience to do so.

Raithere,
I had the same feeling about the Quran, but the question in mind that still couldn't be answered is:
***How could the Quran be such a consistent mathematically and grammatically perfect piece of work while it was not even written down as it was revealed to the Prophet. The whole Quran was memorized by the prophet and his friends before it was written down. What type of writing goes a similar development, where the text is completely memorized and formulated before it's written. I can just assume that Shakespeare thought of his ideas, wrote them down, crossed them, corrected them, formed drafts, then finalized them. Great classical musicians did similar things of writing drafts, correcting them, then coming up with final scripts. How can a writer have a final copy of something of this magnitude in his head and immediately puts it down on paper and never correct it and yet it remains as we see it today perfect.???? How??? On top of this equation , consider the fact that Prophet Muhammed was illiterate and unknowledgable in the ABC of arabic not to consider the complex arabic rules and grammer.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Flores
I had the same feeling about the Quran, but the question in mind that still couldn't be answered is: ***How could the Quran be such a consistent mathematically and grammatically perfect piece of work while it was not even written down as it was revealed to the Prophet.
...
What type of writing goes a similar development, where the text is completely memorized and formulated before it's written.

Not to ding Mohammed because I believe he was a great man, but there is the possibility that there was some editing during the writing process. But that's not even really necessary:

Many of the ancient 'writers' relied primarily upon mnemonic devices and were quite capable of creating, memorizing and revising great tracts of "literature" solely from memory. Writing was a fairly rare technical skill generally left to scribes; the actual creation of a work was very often performed mentally long before commitment to paper. Think of the powerful orators throughout history who stepped up on stage with a single note-card or only a glass of water. Think of the powerful Greek and Roman plays, performed by illiterate actors.

This is not really so unusual even today except that since writing and reading are so prevalent we rarely memorize whole texts. But if you think towards your occupation and the massive amounts of information you carry in your memory and are able to actively modify and work with... it's pretty much the same thing. I've been in my industry for about 15 years (not counting school) and very little of what I use is relegated to paper. I make daily revisions to that information, deleting, modifying, correcting, and adding, all without use of pen and paper. I'm betting you do too. It's just not in the form of a work of literature.

Great classical musicians did similar things of writing drafts, correcting them, then coming up with final scripts.

Actually, some of the most highly regarded ones didn't. Mozart is said to have never made revisions... perfect works of art born directly from his mind, never mind simple songs but entire concerts and operas with parts for hundreds of voices and instruments. Ditto with J.S. Bach who not only could write without corrections but could turn a simple musical phrase into a complete work on the fly never having to write any of it down at all, simply playing it as he created it.

How?

Human genius. It happens.

On top of this equation , consider the fact that Prophet Muhammed was illiterate and unknowledgable in the ABC of arabic not to consider the complex arabic rules and grammer.

Obviously not. He may have been illiterate in that he could not read and write but he was obviously a genius as far as spoken Arabic which would indicate that he had an excellent understanding of Arabic syntax and grammar. Leave it to the scribes to record it for us.

~Raithere

 

[Flores]

This takes us to my second question

Originally posted by Raithere
Human genius. It happens.

I agree that Human genius happens, but I believe that genius findings were all true findings based on solid foundations. Mozart was not a fraud, he didn't steal a bunch of ideas from another to represent as his, and if he did, the test of time would have shown it clearly.

Raithere, when I was a first year college student, I learned that lies and deceit don't have legs, I learned that if I memorize without understanding my calculus and end up passing with a B, I'll flunk my fluid mechanics later. So how did Muhammed develope a master piece based on false and decietfull theory, what is the difference between Muhammed and all other theists that couldn't produce one chapter as consistent and convincing as he did? And if Muhammed is indeed our Mozart in the area of religion and philosophy, then how could we be willing to attest that Prophet Muhammed was a genius in his views and his writing abilities while we can not even begin to believe his basic message. Did Muhammed lie about the message of god? Did Muhammed lie when he said that these words are not my words but only revealed to me by god thru an archangle mediator of god? If Muhammed indeed wrote a great book like that that moved billions, why didn't he take the credit and make a god of himself, specially if he knew that god had no hand in his alleged inginuity?

Raithere, evaluating Muhammed as a genius or expert without attesting that he is true is a circular reasoning and unfair evaluation that is not working well for me, and I don't have the heart to discount a miracle of writing and ideologies that I have before me in the name of a decietful genious who was able to trick humanity. A decietfull person would not produce but a series of deciets that my heart can detect quickly. This is like doing an evalution of a PhD dissertation, acepting it as an excellent piece of work, yet not believing in it's validity and thus defualting the author as the biggest scam in history and misguiding others about it.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Flores
So how did Muhammed develope a master piece based on false and decietfull theory, what is the difference between Muhammed and all other theists that couldn't produce one chapter as consistent and convincing as he did?

That there is a difference between Muhammad and "all other theists that couldn't produce..." is arguable and essentially a subjective opinion. However, the reason is that religion is an expression of the human experience, not about God. The 'lie' comes in when people insist upon concrete literalist interpretations.

we can not even begin to believe his basic message.

Again, it depends upon how one decides to interpret what that message is. As I view it, most religions can be boiled down into certain essential elements that run true throughout human experience.

Raithere, evaluating Muhammed as a genius or expert without attesting that he is true is a circular reasoning and unfair evaluation that is not working well for me, and I don't have the heart to discount a miracle of writing and ideologies that I have before me in the name of a decietful genious who was able to trick humanity.

When did I accuse him of being deceitful? If I respect him for anything, I respect him for the truth contained in his work. But you need to look deeper than the words themselves. Take a look at any great work of literature and ask yourself, "What makes this great?" Greatness lies only partly within the words themselves for no matter how well written it would be valueless without the underlying truth within the work. It doesn't matter if the story is literal fiction or non-fiction without truth it's nothing.

A decietfull person would not produce but a series of deciets that my heart can detect quickly. This is like doing an evalution of a PhD dissertation, acepting it as an excellent piece of work, yet not believing in it's validity and thus defualting the author as the biggest scam in history and misguiding others about it.

When a child comes to you and tells a tall tale do you accuse them of deceit or do you look to the truth the child beholds in their story? How does the mind of man compare with (or even conceive of) God/Unity/Reality (whatever you wish to call it)? Every word spoken or written about God must by necessity be infinitely less than the reality of God, how then can anything said of him be anything but a distant metaphor?

~Raithere

 

[the sage]

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian


The more I read scinece, the more Muslim I become

it's called confirmation bias

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Raithere
That there is a difference between Muhammad and "all other theists that couldn't produce..." is arguable and essentially a subjective opinion. However, the reason is that religion is an expression of the human experience, not about God. The 'lie' comes in when people insist upon concrete literalist interpretations.

Raithere, I'm afraid that I see it clearly that your are ten steps ahead of me in this discussion, and It makes me smile to affirm the initial idea in my head that you are a one wise man/woman, the quality of a mentor. I would love to get into more depth with you about your own personal interpretation of the Quran, but as my daddy used to tell me, "if your friend is made of honey, don't lick it all in one sitting".

Originally posted by Raithere
Again, it depends upon how one decides to interpret what that message is. As I view it, most religions can be boiled down into certain essential elements that run true throughout human experience.

Except that most religions at least in my opinion delivers news or gospels of the dimension unknown to man in his life. Gospels relating to the purpose of life, the meaning of death, personal accountability, and final mass balance judgement. These things are not experieces, they are clearly exterior information extrapolated from the future, that is meant to shed light on our current experience, but not really information stemming from our everyday lifes. A lot of people veiw the past as their guide and compass, while I think the future is what is guiding us and not the past...The past is gone and done with. God has revealed to us the future for guidance, but we somehow insist on looking at the past for answers.

Originally posted by Raithere
When did I accuse him of being deceitful?

You didn't, my bad, and I get three bads per post. And really who cares Raithere. If I ever get a letter from you, does it have any bearing if I or you accuse the mail man of being decietfull. Don't I have eyes good enough to recognize Raithere logic and writing anywhere. The mail man could try to sabotage the message, but a trained eye can't be fool by that.

Originally posted by Raithere
If I respect him for anything, I respect him for the truth contained in his work.

And as you said, your appreciation and understanding of the book is different than mine and it might be similar, who knows, and it seems that the Quran stresses this aspect in the use of the sentence "For those who understand" in every other verse.

Originally posted by Raithere
But you need to look deeper than the words themselves. Take a look at any great work of literature and ask yourself, "What makes this great?" Greatness lies only partly within the words themselves for no matter how well written it would be valueless without the underlying truth within the work. It doesn't matter if the story is literal fiction or non-fiction without truth it's nothing.

Amen to that, and it's that deeper look that is getting us lost.....The Quran challenges us to look at our universe for understanding, yet it tells us that everytime we look, our eyes will come back hurt and burdened. To what extent do we need to look, specially that we were told that our eyes is not designed to handle entirely what we are trying to look at.

Originally posted by Raithere
When a child comes to you and tells a tall tale do you accuse them of deceit or do you look to the truth the child beholds in their story? How does the mind of man compare with (or even conceive of) God/Unity/Reality (whatever you wish to call it)? Every word spoken or written about God must by necessity be infinitely less than the reality of God, how then can anything said of him be anything but a distant metaphor?

I like to look at the truth, but I hate using the example of a child or anything dear to me. It just brings back bad memories of why christianity have deteriorate so much. Muhammed is not my child, nor is he my fellow countryman, or anyother metaphor. Muhammed is a human being vulnerable to make all the mistakes that I can make, but he was strengthened with a miracle that enabeled him to deliver the emminent load to humanity. The load he delivered is not his, nor is he more insightfull than you and me. He was just a chosen vehicle, and god have the right and insight to chose whomever he wants, that being a truthfull man or a criminal, and the proof is in the pudding of the message, not in the character and attributes of the deliverer of the message.

 

[James R]

<i>If we add up the total words of both "sea" and "land" we get 45. Now if we do a simple calculation:
32/45 X 100% = 71.11111111%
13/45 X 100% = 28.88888888%

Above is what we know today, the percentages of Water (Sea) and Land in the world. Yet another miracle in the Quran.</i>

...or proof that you can always find "amazing" coincidences in any document if you spend enough time playing around with its contents.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Flores
I would love to get into more depth with you about your own personal interpretation of the Quran, but as my daddy used to tell me, "if your friend is made of honey, don't lick it all in one sitting".

You can lick me all you want. But honestly you are much more conversant with the Quran than I am; I really have only a superficial understanding of the text itself. Many of the underlying concepts, however, are universal IMO.

Gospels relating to the purpose of life, the meaning of death, personal accountability, and final mass balance judgement. These things are not experieces, they are clearly exterior information extrapolated from the future, that is meant to shed light on our current experience, but not really information stemming from our everyday lifes

It's not about the past or the future; it's about the now. Think about what 'final judgment' means. It means that no act is insignificant. It means that every detail of our lives is important in regards to the ultimate reality, our final arbiter. Most religions extol the value of compassion, the importance of our deeds, our words, even our thoughts and emotions. All religions tell us that we are not insignificant but that we are important, primarily to each other.

If I ever get a letter from you, does it have any bearing if I or you accuse the mail man of being decietfull.

An important thought... I'll get to it below.

And as you said, your appreciation and understanding of the book is different than mine and it might be similar, who knows, and it seems that the Quran stresses this aspect in the use of the sentence "For those who understand" in every other verse.

Which is a call to look deeper, to question further. It indicates that the truth is not superficial to the work but lies within.

Matthew 13:13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

[39.18] Those who listen to the Word and follow the best thereof, those are (the ones) whom Allâh has guided and those are men of understanding.

To what extent do we need to look, specially that we were told that our eyes is not designed to handle entirely what we are trying to look at.

My tendency is to interpret such a statement as indicating that we cannot know absolutely but that it is important to 'look' and to try and understand. But I'm not familiar with the reference.

Muhammed is a human being vulnerable to make all the mistakes that I can make, but he was strengthened with a miracle that enabeled him to deliver the emminent load to humanity.

Try to get past the literal interpretation, it's not important. Consider a question I once posed to a Christian, "If I could build a time machine, take you back and prove definitively that Jesus did not perform any miracles or come back from the dead, would you still believe what you believe." His answer was, "No." But the truth is truth no matter what the source is so why should it matter? He had placed the status of the messenger above that of the message.

But what if we consider the messengers to be purely human and the message, whatever the true source, to have been verbalized by human minds and spoken in a human voice. Context (cultural, historical, political, etc.) then becomes significantly more important because it gives us a better understanding of what the message really is. It helps us to perceive the message more clearly if we have at least some clue of where the messenger was in relation to these things when the message was delivered. The 'deterioration' of certain sects of Christianity are in many ways a result of ignoring this but it also happens within certain Islamic traditions as well. Noting where derivations of religions seem to have lost the message ask yourself how and why.

~Raithere

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by James R
<i>If we add up the total words of both "sea" and "land" we get 45. Now if we do a simple calculation:
32/45 X 100% = 71.11111111%
13/45 X 100% = 28.88888888%

Above is what we know today, the percentages of Water (Sea) and Land in the world. Yet another miracle in the Quran.</i>

...or proof that you can always find "amazing" coincidences in any document if you spend enough time playing around with its contents.

Coincidences ???? Coincidences can happen onece or twice not hundered of times in ONE BOOK!!!

I did not ''play'' around with its contents, remember we are dealing with a book that is considered the constitution of 2 billion muslim around the world....we are dealing with the true uncorrupted word of Allah Almighty.

http://www.it-is-truth.org

 

[James R]

<i>Coincidences can happen onece or twice not hundered of times in ONE BOOK!!!</i>

Sure they can - and the longer the book the more "hidden messages" you can create from its contents. That's why the bible and the Qu'ran are so popular with "code" nutters.

<i>we are dealing with the true uncorrupted word of Allah Almighty.</i>

Oh? How do you know?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Dr.Tarig Al Swaidan discovered some verses in the Holy Qur'an that mention one thing is equal to another, i.e. men are equal to women.

Comments on the assertion that there are
“Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran”

First of all, the Quran was put together after Mohammad’s death by an early caliph
Second, it was not put in chronological order, as given, but from longest to shortest suras
Third, there is no telling how much of the original was saved after the deaths of some of
those entrusted with it to memory or palm frond
Fourth, the fact that only the so-called original Arabic Quran is correct, implies to me that
it is an Arabic tool for conquest, which by the subsequent actions of its followers proves
me right, they didn’t send missionaries first, they sent conquerors to all ends of the earth
Fifth, any god that can only ‘speak’ Arabic, must be Arabic (as in a tribal god)
Sixth, if there is no compulsion in religion, why can’t people leave islam without repercussion?
Seven, if islam says that it is more correct than Judaism or Christianity because it came after
to correct them, then all later revelations can be the last, so that mormonism would be more
correct that islam? Since it is after?

Check these sites out:
http://www.carm.org/islam/koran.htm
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99jan/koran.htm
http://debate.org.uk/topics/books/origins-koran.html