Spirituality in Atheism

[S.A.M.]

How is it not? Where did the universe come from? God. How does consciousness arise? God. How should we act? God tells us. It's very simplistic.

Ah yes of course.

 

[Pete]

Like a methane bog, you mean?

No... like patterns, organisation and complex behaviour emerge from simple interactions.

Hmm an interesting notion. Does it?

I don't know. Does it matter? Should we not value spirituality for what it is, rather than where it comes from?

 

[S.A.M.]

No... like patterns, organisation and complex behaviour emerge from simple interactions.

I don't know. Does it matter? Should we not value spirituality for what it is, rather than where it comes from?

You're the one who is arguing origin, why ask me?:shrug:

 

[Pete]

You're the one who is arguing origin, why ask me?:shrug:

I'm not arguing origin, I'm posing a question about whether origin affects the value of spirituality.

I'm asking whether you think it would make a difference if the thing that people refer to as spirituality were something that arose from our biology and chemistry, rather than something separate.

 

[Pete]

In this cartoon, for example, spirituality is what prompts the man to question the purpose of himself and the world.

Do you think that it matters whether or not the origin of his spirituality is biochemical?

 

[S.A.M.]

In this cartoon, for example, spirituality is what prompts the man to question the purpose of himself and the world.

Do you think that it matters whether or not the origin of his spirituality is biochemical?

It matters to him, does it not?

 

[Enmos]

If biochemistry is the origin of spirituality, why call it spirituality ?

 

[Pete]

It matters to him, does it not?

Does it?
The man's spirituality is valuable in and of itself, is it not?
Does its value depend on whether it is material in origin or not?

 

[Pete]

If biochemistry is the origin of spirituality, why call it spirituality ?

Why not? Why be reductionist about it?

 

[Enmos]

Does it?
The man's spirituality is valuable in and of itself, is it not?
Does its value depend on whether it is material in origin or not?

To theists the soul is something divine, it's not of material origin according to them so it must be from God.
If it would ever be proven that there is no such thing as a soul, it would be devastating to theists..

 

[Enmos]

Why not? Why be reductionist about it?

Reductionist ?
If it's of biological origin, the word 'spirituality' does quite fit.
'Spirituality' means: of incorporeal or immaterial nature.

Also:

spir·it
–noun
1. the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
2. the incorporeal part of humans: present in spirit though absent in body.
3. the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.

 

[S.A.M.]

Does it?
The man's spirituality is valuable in and of itself, is it not?
Does its value depend on whether it is material in origin or not?

It would seem contrary to feel that a connection is corporeal when the ideology is that it is universal. e.g. do you feel your love for your children is a corporeal and biochemical event that can be regulated by chemicals?

So if I stand on a mountain and feel at one with the "universe" what chemical reaction is that?

Reductionist ?
If it's of biological origin, the word 'spirituality' does quite fit.
'Spirituality' means: of incorporeal or immaterial nature.

Also:

spir·it
–noun
1. the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
2. the incorporeal part of humans: present in spirit though absent in body.
3. the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.

Its alright Enmos, he's explaining what spirituality means to him, an atheist.

 

[Gustav]

Does its value depend on whether it is material in origin or not?

yes
yes it does
spirituality boils down to an experience
if what we experience is solely caused by electrochemical reactions within the brain, it can be mimicked

pete 2, a replicant
a zombie

is that you?

now
account for, or discount the notion of free will
i like to hear your spin

 

[S.A.M.]

A clone, you mean.

 

[Enmos]

No, he was responding to my question, then I responded to his:

If biochemistry is the origin of spirituality, why call it spirituality ?

Why not? Why be reductionist about it?

 

[Pete]

Reductionist ? If it's of biological origin, the word 'spirituality' does quite fit.
'Spirituality' means: of incorporeal or immaterial nature.

Well that's what the dictionary says... I think it's a bit more subtle in practice.

I think that spirituality is the awareness of something about yourself that is more than your body. The instinctive dualist nature of the human mind. That which prompts questions like "What's it all about? Is death the end? Why something rather than nothing?"

Some people think that this comes from a true dualism of material and immaterial. Some think that it emerges from the material.

But I think that this aspect of the human condition is valuable in and of itself. The origin of the thing (its fundamental nature) is a separate question to the existence and value of the thing.

 

[Enmos]

Well that's what the dictionary says... I think it's a bit more subtle in practice.

I think that spirituality is the awareness of something about yourself that is more than your body. The instinctive dualist nature of the human mind. That which prompts questions like "What's it all about? Is death the end? Why something rather than nothing?"

Some people think that this comes from a true dualism of material and immaterial. Some think that it emerges from the material.

But I think that this aspect of the human condition is valuable in and of itself. The origin of the thing (its fundamental nature) is a separate question to the existence and value of the thing.

Ok, but I was merely referring to the naming of it.
Surely you see that the word would be unfitting if it's all down to biology ?

 

[Pete]

yes
yes it does
spirituality boils down to an experience
if what we experience is solely caused by electrochemical reactions within the brain, it can be mimicked

pete 2, a replicant
a zombie

is that you?

Yes, if spirituality were biochemical, then it could be duplicated.
Gustav2 would be a separate human, no less spiritual than yourself.
Would that diminish the value of spirituality?

 

[Pete]

Ok, but I was merely referring to the naming of it.
Surely you see that the word would be unfitting if it's all down to biology ?

It's just a label, a part of the language. We call electrons particles because of their apparent manifestation, not their fundamental nature.

 

[Enmos]

It's just a label, a part of the language. We call electrons particles because of their apparent manifestation, not their fundamental nature.

Ok, forget it.. it's not important anyway.