spidergoat,can i pick on you a sec?

[heart]

your assumeing its a pass/fail test..

Okay, you tell me why you believe it isn’t a pass/fail test? What do you think it was?

he did get back 5 times what he lost..(does that mean he has five wives?lol)

Yes, I know the Bible states that he was given back more than was taken- Is that suppose to make it okay? What about his wife and children that died? (all because of a bet that God and Satan had)

consequences?..are you saying you would rather be living in the garden of eden instead of living in the current word?( i forget..are you atheist or theist?) i often wonder what it would be like to live there..all my needs taken care of.. what happens to a person if that happens? i think in our current state of being we would get pretty lethargic..

I’m talking about the consequences the Bible speaks of that happened because A&E ate the forbidden fruit.
What do you mean living in the current word? As in word of the Bible? I’m just saying that in the Bible God hands out punishments, “because you did this you will suffer…” and lists what those are. It wasn’t a reward that he handed out. He made it clear he wasn’t happy with it.
So, if you believe that the Biblical God designed it to be this way for the good of all of us…why didn’t he just set it up to be that way to begin with instead of playing mind games?

they also thought when thunder struck god was angry..

it is my opinion that the bible was written by man..some of those authors may have been inspired by god..but they are still human and are just as susceptable to their own humanity... god did not write the bible..he influenced the ppl who wrote..more ppl got together and decided to gather these writings together and call it the bible..
you can see by the forum talk about god,that communicating what god is, is difficult at best. of course there are gonna be debates about what is true and what is not in the bible..just like there is today..but he is in there,a person has just got to sort through all the bs as you say

Just so I’m clear, you believe that there are parts of the Bible that are true and parts that aren’t? So the parts that make the biblical god look good you believe and what doesn’t you ditch, is that how it works?
There is a whole lot of crap that one would sort through, because the bible paints the biblical god as a violent bully. He lies, kills babies and men and women, animals… We put people in prison for doing less than what the bible portrays god as. We teach children to behave quite the opposite as this out of control god who is ruled by his emotions and serves harsh punishment when he is pissed.

you asking me what god desires? i can only guess..

You are the one who is saying that you believe that God set it up so A&E would “sin”- I’m saying why do that? Why hand out punishments as a result of disobeying him if that is what he wanted to begin with? Head games?

i think your stretching a bit..the apple was not bad for them.
but again your saying the consequence of adam and eve eating the apple is a bad thing..

I’m not saying that knowledge is bad, I’m saying according to the Bible God commanded them not to eat the forbidden fruit. Because they were deceived they did. Because they did, God handed out punishments. Sin was “birthed” with A&E and if I recall right, the Bible says God hates sin, so I’m not sure why you think God would want one to do something that he hates?

i think its a combination of things that make up the stories of gods violence.

In other words, you don’t believe that the violence had anything to do with his him, those were fabricated stories and the parts where he showed mercy were truly him? (I’m just asking because that seems to be the response of most Christians-that or they come up with a million excuses for his violence portrayed in the Bible)

i also believe the differance between old and new testament is akin to our child years and our adult years..as a child we have others to set rules and teach us consequences, as adults we choose to accept the rules of others or we make up our own rules..(the latter tends to get in more trouble..lol)

So do you believe the stories in the Bible, for eg the bit about Jesus or do you believe the stories are hogwash- yet still find meaning in the scriptures that talk about showing kindness, patience, etc?

this is why i tend to agree with my pastor when he talks about new and old covenants..(new testament overrules old testament)

What specifically makes you believe this? He didn’t stop with letting his ego get to him where he struck down and killed people in the NT (eg ananias and sapphira)

also would the death of jesus have meant anything if the old testament god was different?

Either way- I think that it is a horrible story. Violence is the only way to save the world? This is the best the Biblical God could come up with?

im also saying don't be so quick to throw god out just cause humans screw it up..

How have humans screwed it up? I’m just saying, in my opinion, the Biblical God is manipulative, lies, kills, ruled by his emotions etc…

 

[sifreak21]

Existence of God can be proven by reasoning alone but you can't expect an omnipotent being to be falsifiable.

if you dont have evidence to back this up you could be possibly banned.

on the same type of note the existence of god cannot be proven in any way shape or form..

if so answer me this
out side of your faith show me proof god is around us.
note: saying look around you everything you see he created or is him isnt an answer here that is complete poppycock

show me hard evidence that he ever was here. you still cannot so your statement :god can be proven by reasoning: has no more relavence than a flying pig

 

[sifreak21]

How do you know? He's probably not even something as specific as electromagnetism. Actually how about that He doesn't even resemble matter, energy, space or time?

stop here

in an earlier post "which i just quoted" you said he can be proven by reasoning//

now your saying "hes probably" your arguing agianst yourself now

either way you still cant prove By reasoning that he does or ever did exsist

 

[sifreak21]

And that would be speculation on your part, God's existence can be proven by reason alone actually by reason it can be proven that He must exist.

this is nonsence big chiller. there is theories on how the earth came into existants with hard facts to back said theories up. nothing can be said about god nothing more than fairy tales that is

None of these theories are conclusive when it comes to the origin of it all and if one is concerned about finding out the objective truth, existence of possible things, and about the very final destination of an individual.

while none are conclusive they have verifiable facts that back them up we just havent found enough yet.

compaired to the exsistance of god. facts on thetheories about the earths origonation are as high as the empire state building whiled facts about god ever exsisting are non exsistant. you cannot sit there and tell anyone the theory "thats backed up by verifiable fact" how the earth came to be and state god can be proven by reason alone

 

[lightgigantic]

I have seen you mention this before. I have read up on it, but I am finding it really difficult to understand.
To me, both the conceived self as well as the self as context mean the same. I experience my body as "context".
In Buddhism, "external" is used to mean both one's body as well as the room one is in, the people one is surrounded with etc. For example, if one is hungry or ill, this is considered an external circumstance. Whereas things pertaining to the mind are considered internal.

What kind of self is the jiva?

In vaisnava philosophy the mind (and even the false ego, a step higher) is considered external (part of the 8 ingredients of the external energy)

While the jiva partakes of the potency of consciousness, it is termed marginal, in the sense that it is always in a state of being dependent on either the internal or external potency

Does this mean that a jiva cannot understand (at least not by its own efforts) how it is that it is a person - a person cannot understand his own personhood?

only for as long as they are seeking a material basis (ie relying on the external potency) for such a comprehension

Yes, as selfhood is considered one of those things that if one were to make conjectures about it, this would bring madness and vexation to one (it's not directly listed in the sutta, but, so some teachers, it goes under "origin of the world" - ie. all wonderings about the origin of this or that).
(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.077.than.html)
Interestingly, the sutta speaks of such consequences if one were to conjecture about those things. It does not say that such things cannot be known, ever. (The Buddha knows them, of course. But the Buddha does not conjecture.)

If one contrabands the internal potency, one can't receive the benefits of it

Well - yes.


I have always been amazed/frustrated by people making claims that they are "persons" - "I know who I am", "I am my own person", when what they were refrring to were things that I didn't see how they have something to do with being a person. That is, they referred to their bodies, their likes and dislikes, their thoughts, their emotions, their posessions.

A commercial like L'Oreal's "Because you respect yourself" can put me in a metaphysical spin, because I can't see the connection between using a particular cosmetic product and "respecting yourself".
And then "personal questionnaries" in people's diaries and such. "What is your favorite drink? What is your favorite color?" I'd rather do a page of integer calculations than answer one such question, it would be easier and less frustrating!

Ever since I can remember, I had this amazement/frustration when faced with the statements of artists, wine tasters, fashion designers, professional athletes, politicians. Somehow, to these people, their likes and dislikes, their bodies, possessions etc. seemed to have made a difference in their lives, while mine never seemed to have made a difference in mine. I could never relate to the enthusiasm or the disgust with which people would speak about those things.

Oh c'mon.
I'm sure there must be some things on your personal list of pleasure/disgust

Just like an ant cannot know the workings of a human, or an employee cannot know the exact workings of the company?

an employee can have a good understanding iof the company - it simply requires an amiable relationship with the boss - this doesn't of course mean that they can play with the mechanics of the company (which is whats on offer with your standard empirical approach)

 

[spidergoat]

Reliable, objective knowledge cannot be falsified, per definition so.


Either give up your criterium of falsibility, or the desire for objective knowledge.

It can be falsified by definition.

And that would be speculation on your part, God's existence can be proven by reason alone actually by reason it can be proven that He must exist.



None of these theories are conclusive when it comes to the origin of it all and if one is concerned about finding out the objective truth, existence of possible things, and about the very final destination of an individual.

No one on this site has managed to do so. To demand "conclusiveness" is to misunderstand how science works. One theory had supportive evidence, the other none. That makes the theory with no supporting evidence unreasonable.

 

[Big Chiller]

And that would be speculation on your part, God's existence can be proven by reason alone actually by reason it can be proven that He must exist.



None of these theories are conclusive when it comes to the origin of it all and if one is concerned about finding out the objective truth, existence of possible things, and about the very final destination of an individual.

No one on this site has managed to do so. To demand "conclusiveness" is to misunderstand how science works. One theory had supportive evidence, the other none. That makes the theory with no supporting evidence unreasonable.

As long as you're not mixing up theories and science with reason you shouldn't have a problem. This is only showing that theories do not have a place in answering these concepts because these are not falsifiable. Reason however must be applied to all concepts e.g. 2+2=5 is unreasonable.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Okay, you tell me why you believe it isn’t a pass/fail test? What do you think it was?

i already submitted my guess as to that..

I’m talking about the consequences the Bible speaks of that happened because A&E ate the forbidden fruit.
What do you mean living in the current word?

a typo..i meant world..

why didn’t he just set it up to be that way to begin with instead of playing mind games?

dunno..all we can do is guess..

Just so I’m clear, you believe that there are parts of the Bible that are true and parts that aren’t? ]

im saying we can't take the bible so literally..

You are the one who is saying that you believe that God set it up so A&E would “sin”- I’m saying why do that? Why hand out punishments as a result of disobeying him if that is what he wanted to begin with? Head games?

my supposition was that we passed the test and got rewarded by the knowledge of being able to make our own choices.

So do you believe the stories in the Bible, for eg the bit about Jesus or do you believe the stories are hogwash- yet still find meaning in the scriptures that talk about showing kindness, patience, etc?

i think you are trying to goad me..

What specifically makes you believe this? He didn’t stop with letting his ego get to him where he struck down and killed people in the NT (eg ananias and sapphira)

not familiar with those two..

How have humans screwed it up? I’m just saying, in my opinion, the Biblical God is manipulative, lies, kills, ruled by his emotions etc…

hmm lets see..how have humans screwed it up..how bout the inquisition..how bout child molesting pastors..how bout control centered leadership..how bout ppl getting stuck on the letter of the law and missing the intent..how bout ppl adding their own flavor to the mix when they wrote the bible..or for that matter when the interpret it..the list is endless..

i still put forth..god is supposed to be a good thing..its us humans that corrupt what he is about..

 

[heart]

dunno..all we can do is guess..

hmm…okay. If that works for you.

i think you are trying to goad me..

Guess that I’m trying to figure out where you are coming from. I don’t understand how one can ignore the violence of the Biblical God, yet embrace only the good stuff? Unless, you believe there is a God but not the one that the Bible describes? If that’s the case then it would make better sense to me, otherwise, how do you pick and choose like that? (pick and choose which scriptures you embrace and which you don’t)

hmm lets see..how have humans screwed it up..how bout the inquisition..how bout child molesting pastors..how bout control centered leadership..how bout ppl getting stuck on the letter of the law and missing the intent..how bout ppl adding their own flavor to the mix when they wrote the bible..or for that matter when the interpret it..the list is endless..

Oh, I see what you mean now. So if you feel that the Bible isn’t really truthful, due to others putting their own 2 cents in and changing the meaning of what it was to be, what good is it? What makes it above any other religion? I’m just saying if you feel that there are only parts that are true, you really wouldn’t know which scriptures hold truth and which do not, including the story of the crucifixion.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Guess that I’m trying to figure out where you are coming from.

sometimes i am still trying to figure it out also...but what i put here are my suppositions..things that make sense to me..

I don’t understand how one can ignore the violence of the Biblical God, yet embrace only the good stuff?

ok..your still stereotyping me....
i dont ignore it..
i try to make it clear what i am thinking about, but some things get lost in the translation..
and maybe its more of a 'its not how bad you mess up,but how well you fix it.'
if you got charged with spousal abuse would you want everyone to condem you the rest of your life even if you never did it again?

when you were growing up did you learn something just cause your parents told you or did they have to discipline you at times?..
and because i am focusing on the positive stuff does not mean i am ignoreing the negative stuff..
if you go read this you may get why i dont ignore the negative..

Unless, you believe there is a God but not the one that the Bible describes?

now you are getting closer...the bible was written by man..man has a tough time communicating such things as God..yes they were inspired by god, they did their best to communicate what god is...but they are still just men,and as such are susceptible to their own humanity..(again referance previous link)..
god is in there..we just gotta come to terms with our own humanity and therefore the humanity of the authors before we can sort through where god is is the bible..

If that’s the case then it would make better sense to me, otherwise, how do you pick and choose like that? (pick and choose which scriptures you embrace and which you don’t)

i dont think it is about throwing away/ignoring scriptures that don't sound right..its about putting them in perspective..when they were written, what was going on?what did they really mean by 'cool'..(randomly picked that word cause it means many things,) and im sure the orgiginal language had lots of words that have multiple meanings..

this is where bible study helps,(on your own is overwhelming,but cudo's if you do..)

So if you feel that the Bible isn’t really truthful,what good is it? due to others putting their own 2 cents in and changing the meaning of what it was to be,

um..no i do not feel 'what good is it?'
see above.

what makes it above any other religion?

um..you are talking about the bible?..hmm..that brings in the question..So what is valid about the other religions versions of the bible..if god was in ours,then he may be in others also..what is the common denominators between all religious texts..

I’m just saying if you feel that there are only parts that are true, you really wouldn’t know which scriptures hold truth and which do not, including the story of the crucifixion.

its not a true/false thing..its a 'gotta see it with god colored glasses on' in order to see it..

 

[wynn]

In vaisnava philosophy the mind (and even the false ego, a step higher) is considered external (part of the 8 ingredients of the external energy)

While the jiva partakes of the potency of consciousness, it is termed marginal, in the sense that it is always in a state of being dependent on either the internal or external potency

According to that philosophy, what is left then, as far as the jiva's individuality goes?
Is this always being dependent on either God's internal or external potency not proof that the jiva is merely an empty vessel (possibly a dead puppet)?


What does this experience evidence:
A few years back, it might have something to do with my doing concentration meditation, I in a way lost the sense for the taste of food. That is, I had a strange experience where I felt completely dissasociated from the taste of the food in my mouth. I could taste it, but it also seemed to have nothing to do with me. I could not eat. I eventually decided it would be better if I tried to eat something anyway, so I forcefully distracted myself with reading newspapers, doing crossword puzzles etc. during a meal. Without that distraction, I could not eat, because the food seemed tasteless, eating felt like eating sand, choking.
Is this experience evidence that on his own, a jiva cannot do or feel anything, and that unless he resorts to some kind of context for the activity, the activity becomes unbearable/impossible?

Oh c'mon.
I'm sure there must be some things on your personal list of pleasure/disgust

None that I would either live or die for. And if something is not worth living or dying for, then it isn't really worth pursuing or making a point of mentioning it.

 

[heart]

and maybe its more of a 'its not how bad you mess up,but how well you fix it.' if you got charged with spousal abuse would you want everyone to condem you the rest of your life even if you never did it again?

I get what you are saying but we are talking about a God here, not a human. The Biblical God claims himself to be perfect…This is a deity that commands obedience and praise among other things- if such a God were real, there would be absolutely no way in Hades I’d ever worship that. If someone were to beat the crap out of you, play f’d up mind games with you, etc…repeatedly and then said “Hey, let’s have lunch”….Would you? If yes, why- if no, why?

and because i am focusing on the positive stuff does not mean i am ignoreing the negative stuff..if you go read this you may get why i dont ignore the negative..

Nothing wrong with focusing on the positive….But, would you allow a child molester to watch your child and just forgive and forget? That’s what I feel you are kind of suggesting that you do by only focusing on the positives regarding the Biblical God.

the bible was written by man..man has a tough time communicating such things as God..yes they were inspired by god, they did their best to communicate what god is...but they are still just men,and as such are susceptible to their own humanity..(again referance previous link).. god is in there..we just gotta come to terms with our own humanity and therefore the humanity of the authors before we can sort through where god is is the bible..

Again, if the Bible was written by man-you don’t know which stories are real and which aren’t. Christianity is based on a character named Jesus who supposedly saves the world from our “sin”, but if that character is made up then what good is Christianity? So really, we could read stories from anything (ie Wizard of Oz) and get just as much meaning out of it. But I think that the Wizard of Oz would lose any meaning if someone were to claim it to be true-

i dont think it is about throwing away/ignoring scriptures that don't sound right..its about putting them in perspective..when they were written, what was going on?what did they really mean by 'cool'..(randomly picked that word cause it means many things,) and im sure the orgiginal language had lots of words that have multiple meanings..

this is where bible study helps,(on your own is overwhelming,but cudo's if you do..)

I understand the language barrier and all the hyperbole etc... but, there are numerous stories that talk about how the Biblical God lies, commands babies, children, women and men to be killed. Numerous stories and I just kind of find it funny how Christians will discount those dark stories and chalk them up to something else, yet when it comes to the loving God- well there's not a mistranslation there..

I know you say you try not to focus at the negative things (about God included) but have you truly thought about the actions of this Biblical God who behaves no better than Saddam did? Why only focus on the actions you think are good and make up reasons within yourself to deny that he couldn't do anything dark that the Bible claims he did? Because it sounds like to me that you are kind of taking what is written in black and white and saying, "God didn't really kill the people in the flood. He didn't really think everyone but Noah and family were evil. No way. The Biblical God is a God of love." If that is not how you view it then I apologize- but I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around any Christian who will only take the good out of the bible and give God credit for it, yet discount his dark side.

what is the common denominators between all religious texts..

Not Jesus. Which I guess I'm kind of curious how one believes in the Bible yet also believes it to be part lies. Knowing stories are made up- yet somehow believes that the one about Jesus is real? You're a puzzling little squirrel. :bugeye:

ts not a true/false thing..its a 'gotta see it with god colored glasses on' in order to see it

You mean rose colored glasses?

 

[NMSquirrel]

I get what you are saying but we are talking about a God here, not a human. The Biblical God claims himself to be perfect…This is a deity that commands obedience and praise among other things-

hmm..given what i said i believed about adam and eve..it makes me question those referances,ok did god really tell them to do that? or did they just use god as an excuse..
as far as i can recall, there are only two stories that say god communicated directly with more than one person,the ten commandments and the story with david and the writing on the wall.

Nothing wrong with focusing on the positive….But, would you allow a child molester to watch your child and just forgive and forget?

funny..this has happened to me...i knew this guy for a long time,and knew the girl who got him in trouble..the girl has done this to others before,she knows how to play that game..he did nothing to her, yet still he got charged and forced to register.just cause they are young does not make them stupid..

Again, if the Bible was written by man-you don’t know which stories are real and which aren’t.

real as compared to what?
physical?
mental?
emotional?
spritual?

Christianity is based on a character named Jesus who supposedly saves the world from our “sin”, but if that character is made up then what good is Christianity?

well MW was having a discusion about how many messiah's that actually existed in those times..there were thousands..

so what if:
the ppl that wrote the bible were aware of this and recognized god in these multitude of messiah's,they understood they had to write something down to preserve the good news the messiahs were teaching,
maybe they tended to lump them all together and call it one person,
i hear writing was pretty difficult in those days..what would be the consequences of communicating thousands of messiahs? IOW if the bible talked of thousands of messiahs, would the book have the same meaning? would it have survived this long?

then that begs the question..what if muhammed and such were part of this group? (keep in mind i still believe in their humanity)

So really, we could read stories from anything (ie Wizard of Oz) and get just as much meaning out of it.

lol..never underestimate humanity's choices..

But I think that the Wizard of Oz would lose any meaning if someone were to claim it to be true-

All praise Toto!

I understand the language barrier and all the hyperbole etc... but, there are numerous stories that talk about how the Biblical God lies, commands babies, children, women and men to be killed. Numerous stories and I just kind of find it funny how Christians will discount those dark stories and chalk them up to something else, yet when it comes to the loving God- well there's not a mistranslation there..

what are your flaws?
would you share them easily with others?
if someone pointed one of them out to you,would you admit to it?.. or would you deny it?..
lol..never underestimate humanity's choices..

I know you say you try not to focus at the negative things (about God included) but have you truly thought about the actions of this Biblical God who behaves no better than Saddam did?

i tend to see god they way he has shown me he is..
i find a church that lines up closest to what god has shown me,
ones that allow me to question,and doesn't call me the devil for questioning.
this falls under "never underestimate humanity's choices" when it comes to not wanting to say 'I don't know'..(of course the way we treat spiritual leaders its understandable,we don't want them to say 'I dont know')

Because it sounds like to me that you are kind of taking what is written in black and white and saying,

just cause its in black and white means its true?
it seems your argueing a literal view of the bible..IE the letter of the law, as opposed to the spirit of it.

"God didn't really kill the people in the flood. He didn't really think everyone but Noah and family were evil.

i kinda agree,but then again i think, why was that story put in there? what is the spiritual message they are saying? who is the audience?

No way. The Biblical God is a God of love." If that is not how you view it then I apologize-

ah but you are assuming the biblical god is god..maybe that is just a piece of him,maybe there are other pieces written elsewhere that did not get in the bible..

but I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around any Christian who will only take the good out of the bible and give God credit for it, yet discount his dark side.

never underestimate humanity's choices..

Not Jesus. Which I guess I'm kind of curious how one believes in the Bible yet also believes it to be part lies.

i never said 'lies'..

Knowing stories are made up- yet somehow believes that the one about Jesus is real?

choices..

You're a puzzling little squirrel. :bugeye:

i believe god has raised me to think like this..unfortunatly i also believe god has a sense of humor,he made it so no-one else gets it like i do..makes it tough to communicate effectively..
IOW..just cause you don't know what i am talking about, doesn't mean i don't...lol...

oh well..maybe its just a piece of a bigger puzzle that i cannot see..

You mean rose colored glasses?

nope..meant god colored..rose assumes a desire to have everything in your life perfect..that would get boring..

 

[heart]

hmm..given what i said i believed about adam and eve..it makes me question those referances,ok did god really tell them to do that? or did they just use god as an excuse..

Not sure what you are talking about here

as far as i can recall, there are only two stories that say god communicated directly with more than one person,the ten commandments and the story with david and the writing on the wall.

There are loads of stories where God communicated directly i.e., Noah, Jonah and the Whale, Moses and the burning bush, etc…

funny..this has happened to me...i knew this guy for a long time,and knew the girl who got him in trouble..the girl has done this to others before,she knows how to play that game..he did nothing to her, yet still he got charged and forced to register.just cause they are young does not make them stupid..

But I’m speaking of a real child molester, not one who has been accused but innocent. Besides, you keep comparing humans with a God.

well MW was having a discusion about how many messiah's that actually existed in those times..there were thousands..

so what if:
the ppl that wrote the bible were aware of this and recognized god in these multitude of messiah's,they understood they had to write something down to preserve the good news the messiahs were teaching,
maybe they tended to lump them all together and call it one person,
i hear writing was pretty difficult in those days..what would be the consequences of communicating thousands of messiahs? IOW if the bible talked of thousands of messiahs, would the book have the same meaning? would it have survived this long?

And what if there really is an older jolly fellow with a red nose and a pot belly who dresses in red and delivers gifts on Christmas Eve, after all, there are hundreds of stories and movies that echo this story, surely he must be real?

what are your flaws?
would you share them easily with others?
if someone pointed one of them out to you,would you admit to it?.. or would you deny it?..
lol..never underestimate humanity's choices..

We are talking about God Squirrel, not humans. Big diff.

i tend to see god they way he has shown me he is..
i find a church that lines up closest to what god has shown me,
ones that allow me to question,and doesn't call me the devil for questioning.
this falls under "never underestimate humanity's choices" when it comes to not wanting to say 'I don't know'..(of course the way we treat spiritual leaders its understandable,we don't want them to say 'I dont know')

That’s good that you question, Squirrel. So, how come it seems that “God” tells the Baptists something different than the Assembly of God and the Catholics something different than the Lutherans and so on? Wonder why there are so many different views about religion- God must like to send confusion?

i kinda agree,but then again i think, why was that story put in there? what is the spiritual message they are saying? who is the audience?

Because some man wrote it down, but that doesn’t mean it’s true.

ah but you are assuming the biblical god is god..maybe that is just a piece of him,maybe there are other pieces written elsewhere that did not get in the bible..

God has a multiple personality disorder you mean? Seriously? Because the one of the Bible stinks.

never underestimate humanity's choices..

Is this what you say when you don’t know what to say?

choices

Are you saying you choose to believe Jesus is real?

 

[NMSquirrel]

Not sure what you are talking about here

when someone says they are doing this in 'the name of god' or 'god told me to do it" do you believe them? satan likes to pretend he is god...

There are loads of stories where God communicated directly i.e., Noah, Jonah and the Whale, Moses and the burning bush, etc…

um..just submited an online search for jonah and the whale..looked at jonah 1:1 stopped reading at "Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah"
that could mean anything , not just "god spoke to jonah" although i am sure there is a version out there that says that...but that would just emphasize my point about man writing the bible..

And what if there really is an older jolly fellow with a red nose and a pot belly who dresses in red and delivers gifts on Christmas Eve, after all, there are hundreds of stories and movies that echo this story, surely he must be real?

funny..my granddaughter is on the floor drawing santa clause as we speak (of course she is four..so she says it is..i cant tell...)

Besides, you keep comparing humans with a God.
We are talking about God Squirrel, not humans. Big diff.

no..i am talking about where you get your ideas about who god is?
did god tell you? or did man?

That’s good that you question, Squirrel. So, how come it seems that “God” tells the Baptists something different than the Assembly of God and the Catholics something different than the Lutherans and so on? Wonder why there are so many different views about religion- God must like to send confusion?

sometimes i think its about puzzles..
god gives us each a piece of the puzzle..till we come together and share our piece with others, we will only see our piece..(some ppl make their piece more important than others.)
when we share our piece with others and they with us,we learn how we fit together..i believe each church has enough pieces to make something out from the bigger puzzle...but again some churches think their piece is more important..
untill we can ALL get together and share our pieces will we ever get to see the whole puzzle..

Because some man wrote it down, but that doesn’t mean it’s true

.
but it doesnt mean it is false either...(here we go round the merry-go-round....)
what does god tell you?

God has a multiple personality disorder you mean? Seriously? Because the one of the Bible stinks.

god has a sense of humor...
we die..we go to heaven..the first thing we hear..is god telling a joke(insert joke here..)
but seriously..it could happen...

Is this what you say when you don’t know what to say?

it kinda took over for a sec...i had one more but i deleted it..

Are you saying you choose to believe Jesus is real?

Yes.

 

[heart]

when someone says they are doing this in 'the name of god' or 'god told me to do it" do you believe them?

Are you talking about the stories of the Bible or in general, because I’m really lost.

um..just submited an online search for jonah and the whale..looked at jonah 1:1 stopped reading at "Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah"
that could mean anything , not just "god spoke to jonah" although i am sure there is a version out there that says that...but that would just emphasize my point about man writing the bible..

Should have read a little further.

Jonah 4:4
4The LORD said, "Do you have good reason to be angry?"

Jonah 4:9-12
9 Then God said to Jonah, "Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?" And he said, "I have good reason to be angry, even to death."
10 Then the LORD said, "You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.
11"Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"

no..i am talking about where you get your ideas about who god is?
did god tell you? or did man?

We have been talking about the Biblical God so therefore when speaking about him I have simply spoke of those stories in the Bible.

sometimes i think its about puzzles..
god gives us each a piece of the puzzle..till we come together and share our piece with others, we will only see our piece..(some ppl make their piece more important than others.)
when we share our piece with others and they with us,we learn how we fit together..i believe each church has enough pieces to make something out from the bigger puzzle...but again some churches think their piece is more important..
untill we can ALL get together and share our pieces will we ever get to see the whole puzzle..

Those sure are a lot of words to try to soften up the image of the Biblical God. Have you read the stories, Squirrel? The ones where God orders children to be slaughtered in front of their parents eyes? He’s very violent and heartless. As I’ve said before if someone brings out a juicy steak to you, and on closer inspection you see a glob of dog poop right in the middle of it…are you still gonna eat the steak?

god has a sense of humor...
we die..we go to heaven..the first thing we hear..is god telling a joke(insert joke here..)
but seriously..it could happen...

Uh-huh, riiiiight.

Yes.

What makes you believe that yet not the other stories that paint the Biblical God in a bad light?

 

[NMSquirrel]

Are you talking about the stories of the Bible or in general, because I’m really lost.

both because they are both from man..

Should have read a little further.
We have been talking about the Biblical God so therefore when speaking about him I have simply spoke of those stories in the Bible.

yes, but you speak of them as if god himself wrote it..
im just trying to express not to forget that it was not god who wrote it..it was god through some human..
if the human that wrote it said 'god said',was that first hand knowledge?or was it passed down verbally to the author..iow did the author hear god say it?

i do recognize god in the bible,
but its not a 'cause the bible says so' thing..its a god was with me my whole life, this is what god taught me, it wasnt till i was 30 that i started to study the bible..finally read through it all...most of all that stuff that god taught me, is in the bible..so i can see god in the bible..

Those sure are a lot of words to try to soften up the image of the Biblical God. Have you read the stories, Squirrel? The ones where God orders children to be slaughtered in front of their parents eyes? He’s very violent and heartless.

when is the last time he did that?
are you thinking old testament or new?
we can forgive each other.. but not god?
has he done that to you?

As I’ve said before if someone brings out a juicy steak to you, and on closer inspection you see a glob of dog poop right in the middle of it…are you still gonna eat the steak?

uke:4

Uh-huh, riiiiight.

well..no one knows what heaven is like..unless you been there..but then you would be dead..so anything is possible..we all have our own ideas about what heaven is like..most of it is personalized to each of us..
IMO..I don't think its gonna be about me...i know i am messed up..heaven is gonna be better than me..i aint gonna care about me no more...this would be a good thing..

What makes you believe that, yet not the other stories that paint the Biblical God in a bad light?

what is being taught?
is that the only way to see it?
why is that in the bible? remember..it was cannonized by men..men decided what went in and what didn't..why did they exlude other texts?..
the last verses in the bible always stood out to me as a signature by man..
it tells me that it was written by man..not god..

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them,

which book?..the book of revelation?..no?..man cannoninzed it and did the very thing they say not to do...

God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

hmm..maybe thats why all the violence was put in there..who put it in there again?

19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy,

they probably did..makes sense if they added something..they would take away things, what books got excluded again?

God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

ouch..so if i said that about the plagues, and it holds true, then i have to apply the same logic here..

20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

this is a bit confusing..

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.

the end.

 

[heart]

both because they are both from man..

So then the bible is 100% bs, right? Man wrote it so it’s nothing but a reflection of their own beliefs at that time. Which brings me to this question, why would you choose to believe that Jesus is all the sudden real in a book written by man?

yes, but you speak of them as if god himself wrote it..
im just trying to express not to forget that it was not god who wrote it..it was god through some human.. if the human that wrote it said 'god said',was that first hand knowledge?or was it passed down verbally to the author..iow did the author hear god say it?

Squirrel, what makes you say that God was the one that wrote through these men? You just got through saying how man wrote the Bible, so they got that part right, huh? How would you know?

i do recognize god in the bible,
but its not a 'cause the bible says so' thing..its a god was with me my whole life, this is what god taught me, it wasnt till i was 30 that i started to study the bible..finally read through it all...most of all that stuff that god taught me, is in the bible..so i can see god in the bible..

Squirrel, you see what you want to see. I mean you no disrespect, but to me, it seems like you are making up the rules as you go along. You’re saying that God wrote the Bible through man. BUT, man had to write it down and could have messed it up or added their own ideas to it…who knows. So, you just automatically believe that the bad stuff they messed up on and the good stuff they got right? Really?

when is the last time he did that? are you thinking old testament or new?
we can forgive each other.. but not god? has he done that to you?

We are talking about a god who is supposedly perfect. I thought God was a God that changeth not? Old, New…blah…. I think his bully murderous ways are wrong, especially for a God.

IMO..I don't think its gonna be about me...i know i am messed up..heaven is gonna be better than me..i aint gonna care about me no more...this would be a good thing..

What is it that you think Heaven is about?

what is being taught?
is that the only way to see it?
why is that in the bible? remember..it was cannonized by men..men decided what went in and what didn't..why did they exlude other texts?..
the last verses in the bible always stood out to me as a signature by man..
it tells me that it was written by man..not god..

It tells you that or is it that you just couldn’t believe that a God could be so brutal? Would it change your mind about him?

which book?..the book of revelation?..no?..man cannoninzed it and did the very thing they say not to do...

hmm..maybe thats why all the violence was put in there..who put it in there again?

they probably did..makes sense if they added something..they would take away things, what books got excluded again?

ouch..so if i said that about the plagues, and it holds true, then i have to apply the same logic here..


this is a bit confusing..
(Uh-huh)

the end.

Squirrel? You ok? *Is thinking you had one hell of an acid trip and got lost in Neverland*

 

[NMSquirrel]

So then the bible is 100% bs, right?

no..you just got to treat it like a guide book..not a rule book..
there is no 100% right or 100% wrong..

Squirrel, what makes you say that God was the one that wrote through these men?

inspired these men..

How would you know?

well thats my point....

Squirrel, you see what you want to see.

just because you don't know what i'm talking about doesn't mean i don't..
im just trying to share what i see..im not trying to say for you to believe it..
and you are not the first to not see it...we are human after all..miscomunication is our nature..

So, you just automatically believe that the bad stuff they messed up on and the good stuff they got right? Really?

its not about either/or..
you are making it about either/or..
you keep trying to make me say that i devalue (ignore/whateverelse you said.) the bad stuff..i do not.

We are talking about a god who is supposedly perfect. I thought God was a God that changeth not? Old, New…blah…. I think his bully murderous ways are wrong, especially for a God.

i think you need to forgive god for what you think he did to you..it may not have been him..

What is it that you think Heaven is about?

dunno..whatever it is..we will like it..till then, its fun to speculate..

Would it change your mind about him?

i don't believe everything im told..i question everything..
belief is not a state of being..it is a choice..
each and every day i choose to believe in god..

Squirrel? You ok? *Is thinking you had one hell of an acid trip and got lost in Neverland*

don't stress..if god wants you to know, he will open your eyes..then you will know...but for now, it worth at least half a ponder..
<ohh pretty colors..>

 

[heart]

no..you just got to treat it like a guide book..not a rule book..
there is no 100% right or 100% wrong.

Why use a book as a guide when there contains scriptures you believe very well could have been made up by man? What makes it even worthy to be used as a guide?

inspired these men..

How do you know this? The Bible states that but, I thought not everything in the Bible is correct?

Further, I can get inspired to paint a dolphin but that doesn’t mean I know crap about dolphins. How do you know that these men were truly inspired by “God”? Because they said so?

well thats my point....

Point being is that you do not know? From what I’ve gathered from your descriptions about the Bible, wouldn’t reading it pretty much be like diving into a dumpster and trying to sort through all the crap just to find something worth keeping? If one even did do that that would be subjective- certainly not fact-

just because you don't know what i'm talking about doesn't mean i don't.. im just trying to share what i see..im not trying to say for you to believe it.

Understandable, I wonder, though, how many others feel the same way as you, yet hold different beliefs? I wonder how you all know who is right, because I think each person feels that they are.

and you are not the first to not see it...we are human after all..miscomunication is our nature..

Again, how do you know that those of us who do not see are wrong? What makes you feel its simple miscommunication?

its not about either/or..
you are making it about either/or..

You think it’s about both, take the rotten with the good type of thing?

you keep trying to make me say that i devalue (ignore/whateverelse you said.) the bad stuff..i do not.

Nope, that’s not what I’m trying to do. Sorry that it came out that way and I can see why you’d think that. I am just trying to get you to explain how you can overlook the bad stuff and come to the conclusion that a murderous lying God is ok to listen to.

i think you need to forgive god for what you think he did to you..it may not have been him..

I never said that the Biblical God has done anything to me. I’m just repeating what the Bible says.

dunno..whatever it is..we will like it..till then, its fun to speculate..

Ganja and edible creamy marshmallow clouds?

i don't believe everything im told..i question everything..

That’s good. So I might understand, how is it you come to terms with God’s violence?

belief is not a state of being..it is a choice..
each and every day i choose to believe in god..

Which god?

don't stress..if god wants you to know, he will open your eyes..then you will know...but for now, it worth at least half a ponder..

It still just seems that you’ve found a way for you to believe in the Biblical God and be able to accept his dark side. I see you say you don’t deny his dark side, but you also say you don’t really believe it? If I’m wrong about that- clear it up for me.