spidergoat,can i pick on you a sec?

[NMSquirrel]

your tag says
"Is he able, but not willing?"

i assume you are talking about god..

it is my opinion that god sets up opportunities for us to help, we still have the ability to choose whether we want to do a thing or not..is it his fault we chose not to act?..

so to me the question becomes "He is able,we are not willing."

 

[superstring01]

Queue the Spidergoat jokes!!!

When Spidergoat does push-ups, he isn't pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down.

There is no theory of evolution, just a long list of animals Spidergoat allows to live!​

~String

 

[lightgigantic]

your tag says
"Is he able, but not willing?"

i assume you are talking about god..

it is my opinion that god sets up opportunities for us to help, we still have the ability to choose whether we want to do a thing or not..is it his fault we chose not to act?..

so to me the question becomes "He is able,we are not willing."

I think he is more in line with the thought that god is able to fulfill all our needs, interests and concerns (regardless whether we are in conditioned or unconditioned existence) but not willing

 

[spidergoat]

I was talking about me, or something to that effect, an attempt at humor or to provoke thought, but you are right, it's a common argument against God. It's the problem of evil. It's not just the problem of taking charge of your life, there are really evil things that happen and no one can stop them, no one knows about them at the time. The notion that God will always provide for the faithful, if they only took advantage of some opportunity is, I feel, nonsense.

 

[lightgigantic]

I see.
Kind of make everything celery flavored in order to help us better wield our free will, eh?

 

[spidergoat]

If he allows evil to happen, while being able to prevent it, then he isn't good, and thus not worthy of worship. If his method is to allow free will and cause and effect to govern the universe, then he doesn't do anything, (and thus cannot answer prayers).

 

[lightgigantic]

If he allows evil to happen, while being able to prevent it, then he isn't good, and thus not worthy of worship. If his method is to allow free will and cause and effect to govern the universe, then he doesn't do anything, (and thus cannot answer prayers).

So you think cause and effect is an ineffective means to curtail or at least limit acts of stupidity or error?

 

[spidergoat]

He could have easily eliminated the genetic propensity for sociopathy, alcoholism, and every other genetic disease. He could have eliminated parasites that prey specifically on humans. You know? Simple things that would not have upset our sense of freedom.

 

[lightgigantic]

He could have easily eliminated the genetic propensity for sociopathy, alcoholism, and every other genetic disease.

to what ends?
I mean in what way are these causes ineffective means of curtailing/restraining/relegating error?

He could have eliminated parasites that prey specifically on humans. You know?

You mean like politicians?

Simple things that would not have upset our sense of freedom.

assuming that the unbridled freedom of one species in particular was on the blue print, sure.

 

[Big Chiller]

Hi spidergoat,

If God is omnipotent that means He doesn't need to do anything, He has no obligations and isn't driven to do anything.

 

[Kernl Sandrs]

If God is omnipotent that means He doesn't need to anything, He has no obligations and isn't driven to do anything.

I could take out "If God is omnipotent that means" and replace it with "My brother." and it would be still be true...


My brother. He doesn't need to anything, He has to obligations and isn't driven to do anything." Yep, that's an accurate assessment. My brother is God, everyone. Let it be known.

 

[Big Chiller]

Can you honestly say that your human brother can never have any obligation?

 

[Kernl Sandrs]

I can say he acts like it the majority of the time.

 

[lightgigantic]

I can say he acts like it the majority of the time.

Is he a rock?

 

[Kernl Sandrs]

Might as well be. At least a rock would be useful. Door-stop. Paper-weight. eh...bludgeoning weapon...Ya know?


Eh, I give him a lot of flak, but I suppose he's alright.

Sometimes.

Occasionally.

 

[Randwolf]

so to me the question becomes "He is able,we are not willing."

NMSquirrel, you have touched upon something that has always perplexed me.

If He (caps for you) is "able", and we are not "willing", why does He not appear to be able and / or willing to instill willingness in us? Surely that would be an easy matter for your God, and still leave room for "free will". Would not willingness naturally arise from knowledge?

I'm referring to true knowledge, imparted by an able God, giving enlightenment to his children so that the path is clear. Why the propensity for "games"? Why communicate in cryptic parables and such?

Again, it would seem such a trivial matter for a being with such unlimited power. Omnipotent power, to be redundant. In other words, what am I missing? What would be the downside if God "gave a brother a break" and let us know for sure, through utilization of means absolutely impossible to refute?

Is this some kind of test, whereby only those willing to stake their faith on shaky evidence (at best) get a free pass to Heaven and a "get out of jail free card" from Hell?

So again, what is this hidden purpose requiring decryption of subtle (at least for some people) clues leading to hoop-jumping just so we can rest at peace knowing that our benevolent creator cares enough not to throw our immortal souls into some lake of fire, or the equivalent?

Seems to me that it is more a case of us being willing, coupled with God being able (taking your word for that), yet... Maybe God is the one lacking the will? Is that it? Is God unwilling to make it "easy" for us? Why?

Why? I'm sure you try to ease your daughter's life, right? Why would our heavenly Father make this gift, the most precious gift of all, so difficult to attain? What would be the downside to easing the way, even for those having a hard time discerning the path? Answer these questions and you'll go further towards saving what I presume you would consider my "immortal soul" than all the religious indoctrination that I have been exposed to in my entire life.

We're willing, why isn't God?

 

[spidergoat]

Hi spidergoat,

If God is omnipotent that means He doesn't need to do anything, He has no obligations and isn't driven to do anything.

Fine, then his existence is indistinguishable from his absence, and the theory is null and void.

to what ends?
I mean in what way are these causes ineffective means of curtailing/restraining/relegating error?

I'm not talking about error, I'm talking about suffering. We suffer from things that are not caused by humans. Why would a beneficent God, who created the entire world and all the animals and plants just for us, make us suffer unnecessarily?

 

[lightgigantic]

NMSquirrel, you have touched upon something that has always perplexed me.

If He (caps for you) is "able", and we are not "willing", why does He not appear to be able and / or willing to instill willingness in us? Surely that would be an easy matter for your God, and still leave room for "free will". Would not willingness naturally arise from knowledge?

how do you propose one installs willingness in another?

I'm referring to true knowledge, imparted by an able God, giving enlightenment to his children so that the path is clear. Why the propensity for "games"? Why communicate in cryptic parables and such?

Love god and treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated.
Doesn't require a PhD
:shrug:

Again, it would seem such a trivial matter for a being with such unlimited power. Omnipotent power, to be redundant. In other words, what am I missing? What would be the downside if God "gave a brother a break" and let us know for sure, through utilization of means absolutely impossible to refute?

Well you wouldn't have a world where one is free to pursue ulterior motives for a start

Is this some kind of test, whereby only those willing to stake their faith on shaky evidence (at best) get a free pass to Heaven and a "get out of jail free card" from Hell?

its more the case that in all circumstances one follows one's desire.
its as simple as that

So again, what is this hidden purpose requiring decryption of subtle (at least for some people) clues leading to hoop-jumping just so we can rest at peace knowing that our benevolent creator cares enough not to throw our immortal souls into some lake of fire, or the equivalent?

Even if we do get the so called peace you are alluding to, if our desire isn't on par we will simply bust our way back to the lake of fire

Seems to me that it is more a case of us being willing, coupled with God being able (taking your word for that), yet... Maybe God is the one lacking the will? Is that it? Is God unwilling to make it "easy" for us? Why?

what are we exactly willing to do?
Live in a universe that is obedient to our fickle desires?

Why? I'm sure you try to ease your daughter's life, right? Why would our heavenly Father make this gift, the most precious gift of all, so difficult to attain?

ha!
So you suggest that all daughters see eye to eye with their fathers on what constitutes benefit and ease?

What would be the downside to easing the way, even for those having a hard time discerning the path? Answer these questions and you'll go further towards saving what I presume you would consider my "immortal soul" than all the religious indoctrination that I have been exposed to in my entire life.

Perhaps the material world, with its exhaust-less reserves to frustrate the best thought out plans for material ambition, is already easing us

We're willing, why isn't God?

Why isn't a father willing to do everything as dictated by his daughter's will?

 

[lightgigantic]

I'm not talking about error, I'm talking about suffering. We suffer from things that are not caused by humans.

Depends how you factor in the pursuit of desire.
For instance if I have the desire to take photos of the south pole, my desire also comes with the suffering of cold and blizzard

Why would a beneficent God, who created the entire world and all the animals and plants just for us, make us suffer unnecessarily?

its kind of like a jail - even though it is made for the benefit of prisoners, that doesn't mean it offers a silver service

 

[christa]

I see.
Kind of make everything celery flavored in order to help us better wield our free will, eh?

:roflmao:

Queue the Spidergoat jokes!!!

When Spidergoat does push-ups, he isn't pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down.

There is no theory of evolution, just a long list of animals Spidergoat allows to live!​

~String

and OMG! BRAVO man!!! That was soo freakin funny I had to tell squirrel, and he hasnt been on to read this in awhile.. hahaha!!!!! got a laugh out of him too!!