Some facts about guns in the US

[iceaura]

Why are you giving me averages from government test numbers, when my points were about specific availability and the defects of those government numbers?
Because those test numbers come from third party emissions analysis equipment, and the requirement numbers are the hard numbers that car manufacturers are required to design to. You cannot seriously claim that they are unreal, since there are quite literally tens of millions of independent tests every year that confirm them.

That does not answer the question. Do you not understand it?

Correct. In other words, what reduces the most risk for the most people.

No. What most reduces the risk to the insurance company. Those are two different concepts, and especially in the area of personal safety for an individual they are often in conflict. Some of these conflicts - such as the airbag endangerment of short people who value their hearing and always wear seat belts - are serious. Gun owners do not want to be victimized in this manner, and who can blame them? When "public health" or "general safety" are involved, idiocy is common enough to beware automatically. And the confused, careless, slipshod "safety"arguments advanced by people whose opinion of firearm owners is colored by contempt and whose apparent agenda is the banning of private firearms ring every wary bell there is.

the experience of this is common
That's a perception created by media.

It is an observation of mine, from my own life and the people among whom I live and work. Famous examples include the drug laws, not so famous but essentially unarguable examples include air bags in cars, arguable but essentially clear examples include helmet laws of various kinds, overstringent lifejacket and official beach laws, and so forth.

Yes, they have. And 99 times out of 100 such impositions do in fact promote the general welfare of the people of the US.

Which leaves dozens of times, some of them familiar to most gun owners, in which the impositions did not promote the general welfare, or in which the improvement in the general welfare was slight while the impositions on the specific people were heavy, and so forth. One may be able to spot these minority exceptions by the spurious nature of the arguments justifying them, the presence of a visibly careless, irrational, ill informed agenda, or the scope and potential threat of the governmental intrusion involved.

Sounds like a case where both sides are paranoid and fearful. Fortunately most people are not like that.

Unfortunately, the public debates and legislative efforts are not in the hands of these "most people".

 

[Write4U]

Fear not, Rush can!

“Seduction used to be an art,” Limbaugh said. “Now, of course, it’s prudish, it’s predatory, it’s bad.”

The host read from Ohio State’s new standards for sexual consent, which is described as “the act of knowingly, actively and voluntarily agreeing explicitly to engage in sexual activity.” The guidelines explicitly state that “the absence of ‘no’ does not mean ‘yes,’” and that “it cannot be implied or assumed even in the context of a relationship” — and that’s where Limbaugh started to cry for backup outrage from his male listeners.

“How many of you guys, in your own experience with women, have learned that no means yes if you know how to spot it?” Limbaugh asked. Seeming to realize immediately that his comments might not be well-received, he added, “Let me tell you something, in this modern world, that is simply not tolerated. People aren’t even going to try to understand that one.”

​

It is not tolerated because it is rape!

It is OT, but then Limbaugh is always OT. His marriage record doesn't speak well for his expertise in the art of seduction.
Actually, he reminds me of the Clown (demon) in the movie Spawn.

 

[Bells]

Crap.. Sorry, posted that in the wrong thread by accident.

I'll be deleting it and moving it to the more appropriate thread.

Apologies!

 

[Tiassa]

How's That School Safety Thing Working Out?

About as you would expect. David Waldman noted yesterday the third accidental firearm discharge by an armed teacher so far this school year.

The latest is a responsible gun owner and retired FBI agent who accidentally shot a filing cabinet, lodging the bullet in the next room. According to officials at the Technology Center of DuPage, the criminal justice instructor was not authorized to be carrying the firearm on school grounds. So far, the human damage in our schools has been minor, with gun owners responsibly only hurting themselves and inanimate objects. As Waldman notes:

You will recall that last month saw an armed 6th grade teacher injure herself with porcelain shrapnel as she accidentally Second Amendmented the toilet out from beneath herself in the faculty restroom, and an Idaho State University professor Second Amendment himself in the foot during class.

Six weeks of school (counting from the week of August 25th), and three teachers have already accidentally fired their handy little safety tools in school. Looking sharp, people. Looking sharp.​

It might be convenient metaphors and bathroom humor right now, but ... er ... ah ... yeah. Enjoy it.

Sad thing is, it sounds about right on schedule.
____________________

Notes:

Waldman, David. "Seriously, people. This armed teacher thing really might not work out." The Daily Kos. October 4, 2014. DailyKos.com. October 5, 2014. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...armed-teacher-thing-really-might-not-work-out

 

[Trooper]

He’s funny, makes a few good points, but a gun has an equalizing effect. I don't want to give that up.

 

[Billy T]

He’s funny, makes a few good points, ...

Yes very funny so I watched to the end. Thanks.
But I came here hoping one of the "some facts" was the ratio of short barrel (can hide in your coat, etc.) guns to male adults. I guess it is about unity but don't know.

 

[pjdude1219]

He’s funny, makes a few good points, but a gun has an equalizing effect. I don't want to give that up.

that's the problem. guns are objects of power. its why people do stupid shit with them. it makes them feel powerful. so great you don't want to give up your object of power because you like the way it makes you feel. but that it gives you warm fuzzies is not a good argument in favor of guns.

 

[iceaura]

But I came here hoping one of the "some facts" was the ratio of short barrel (can hide in your coat, etc.) guns to male adults.

Most men in the US do not own a handgun at all, and as there's not much reason to own more than one snubnose (Saturday Night Special) what you are asking is if a whole lot of women - for whom the ability to fit the thing in a purse is a consideration - own them, thus raising the average number per male in the society.

My guess is well short of unity, but as with most facts about guns it's not an easy number to find, at least not for me. I've seen many guns in possession of men, but outside of a sales display I've seen exactly one small caliber snubnose handgun in my life, shown to me by a guy who bought it as a protection against the immanent registration/confiscation of America's firearms by the incoming Muslim/Communist/Wright acolyte/Ayers co-conspiritor {i.e. black} President - gun sales to white men in certain parts of the US went through the roof in those weeks of panic, even worthless tsotchkes like the Chinese junk he was carrying around for a week or so until he calmed down. Better than a tattoo of a Gadsden flag, I suppose - and cheaper, by the look of it.

They are too small, too quiet, too slow, too weak - unimpressive to gangbangers and mudtruckers alike. For actual killers, of course, the muscle of organized crime or the like, they are ideal - the next best thing to a silencer, viciously lethal without great risk of side damages, cheap and disposable without regret - but that's a very small number of men.

 

[Tiassa]

What More Do We Expect?

Via KOIN 6 television in Portland, Oregon:

A man practicing his open carry right was robbed of the gun he was openly carrying.

William Coleman III was robbed of his Walther-brand P22 just after 2:00 a.m. October 4 in Gresham by a young man who asked him for it — and flashed his own weapon as persuasion.

Coleman, 21, was talking to his cousin in the 17200 block of NE Glisan St., after purchasing the handgun earlier that day, when a young man asked him for a cigarette, police said.

The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said “”I like your gun. Give it to me.”

Coleman handed over the gun and the man fled on foot.​

Thanks, Mr. Coleman, for that brilliant performance. We appreciate the way you helped keep us all safe.
____________________

Notes:

News Staff. "Man practicing open carry law robbed of gun". KOIN 6. October 7, 2014. KOIN.com. October 22, 2014. http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/

 

[Trooper]

Egad! Is gun safety still politically correct?

 

[iceaura]

That's a 400 dollar weapon, of no use whatsoever except threatening other people at close range. http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=GM436466

What he needs is two of them - one concealed. That way when the guy starts to leave with the one, he can pull the other and make the robber give it back along with robbery gun.

Two or three robberies later, he'd be money ahead (street value of such weapons is about half retail).

 

[pjdude1219]

That's a 400 dollar weapon, of no use whatsoever except threatening other people at close range. http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=GM436466

What he needs is two of them - one concealed. That way when the guy starts to leave with the one, he can pull the other and make the robber give it back along with robbery gun.

Two or three robberies later, he'd be money ahead (street value of such weapons is about half retail).

so your solution to gun point robbery is more gun point robbery? no wonder you were comepletely ok with sculpter's willingness for criminal with guns, so are you.


#responsiblegunownership # resposiblegunowners

 

[Kittamaru]

true as that may be i seriously doubt in this case the answer to violence is more violence.

Fair enough - I just never quite understood the point of open-carry, especially with a gun like that. That's the kind of weapon that should be concealed so it can be used if ever needed, instead of shown off.

 

[Trooper]

 

[Kittamaru]

I find it interesting that even YouTube thinks that video is pretty dumb... I mean, the suggestions it gives to "watch next" afterwards are:

"I like your boobs marry me"
"Dave Chappelle Describes His First Encounter with Kanye West"
"The Ultimate Girls Fail Compilation 2012"
and
"Best Football Vines Compilation 2013"

 

[Tiassa]

Marysville-Pilchuck High School: 6 wounded, shooter dead

We have time to worry about the wounded. So far the only reported death in this story that is approximately an hour old is the shooter, by self-inflicted gunshot wound.

The first question, of course, is why. Of course, that demands knowing who the late shooter was. We'll see about that, but, you know, it's enough to make me nostagic for the days when assholes just threw punches and insults.

Update 1237 PST: Uncorroborated report of one victim dead; distraught student tells KOMO News, "I saw my friend killed right in front of me." Presently, law enforcement only acknowledges shooter dead.

Update 1247 PST: Headlines and ledes (➦) are changing; one victim confirmed dead, details uncertain.
____________________

Notes:

Kreamer, Matt. "Police: shooter dead after opening fire at Marysville-Pilchuck High School". The Seattle Times. October 24, 2014. SeattleTimes.com. October 24, 2014. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/10/shooting-reported-at-marysville-pilchuck-high-school/

 

[Kittamaru]

Goddammit... this country has gone completely insane...

 

[GeoffP]

WOW
ok: I most likely do not know the most efficient way of tanning hides(or I'm just really lazy?).

How long does it take you per hide? Fur on or off?
Special tools? or working stands? (I tried working on a smooth log, and stretching the hide on plywood before scraping with an old cabinet scraper, etc)

Any information would be welcome.

I rarely shoot more than 4(white tails), usually 2-3. Young(2-4 years) does seem to offer the best meat, while the big bucks offer the most meat per deer. Mostly, the number shot has to do with freezer space. As a land owner, I get 2 tags for $2.00 each, and 2 more for $13,00 each so I usually buy all 4 tags($30.00) and rarely use all of them. Amortizing the cost of the weapons and including the ammunition, it still comes out to less than $30 per deer, which comes out to about 50 cents per pound of healthy meat. ---Then, I get a $7.00 pair of gloves for the hide. Deducting the value of the gloves, means closer to 40 cents per pound of meat when I shoot all 4.
But I only shoot on my property.

This really makes me want to get out hunting.

 

[sculptor]

I just battered and deep fried a deer heart cut into thin slices.
Finally a good way to cook some really dense meat.
Does anyone here prefer involuntary muscle to skeletal muscle?

 

[Tiassa]

When Hope Itself Becomes Perverse

When we hear of a horrendous crime such as a mass shooting, there comes a point where one might start hoping something or another about the reason this happened. You know, random psychotic break, accidental and previously unrecognized industrial pollution poisoning. Anything.

Because, well ... right. Because.

Two students are dead after one of them opened fire Friday morning in the Marysville-Pilchuck High School cafeteria before turning the gun on himself, according to law-enforcement sources.

Police said four other people were wounded in the 10:45 a.m. shooting.

Austin Joyner, a student at the school, said on Twitter that he saw the shooter come into the cafeteria, walk over to a table, pull out a gun and shoot students who were sitting there.

Other students identified the shooter as Jaylen Fryberg.

Jarron Webb, 15, said the shooter was angry at a girl who would not date him, and that the girl was one of the people shot ....

(Kreamer)​

Welcome to America. What the hell have we done to this place?

Actually, you know, given that it's all secondhand chatter, maybe we can still get out of this with random industrial pollution.

But come on, really?
____________________

Notes:

Kreamer, Matt. "2 dead, 4 wounded in shooting at Marysville-Pilchuck High". The Today File. October 24, 2014. Blogs.SeattleTimes.com. October 24, 2014. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/10/shooting-reported-at-marysville-pilchuck-high-school/