Sociopaths

ULTRA said:
Birch. You struggle to understand it. I struggle to live with it. See the difference? For you it's a passing amusement. For me, it's life or death. I assure you, I take it quite seriously.
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it seems it's you who are finding it amusing. you said you are a 'sociopath' and never lie?

sociopaths operate on a level of ethics which is about getting what they want at any cost or at best at other's expense. they will lie to get what they want among other things.

why are you trolling a topic about sociopaths? do you think it's funny?
 
I reacted badly when a forensic psychologist pronounced me a sociopath. I railed at the guy, probably reinforcing his view. I asked him, 'If I was rich and famous, and wanted to live in isolation, would you still call me a sociopath?' I said to him, I was just reclusive. But after it sank in, I realised he was right. But I'd never dream of raping anyone. I like women. All rapists might be sociopaths, though I doubt it. I think the disturbing truth is that most rapists ar "ordinary" people, whatever they are.
 
Re-read the OP. He's interested in finding out more on the subject. What we are doing is discussing what is current on that subject and all you are doing is ignoring what proper research reveals because it contradicts your own childish notions.
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you know what? i will leave this topic for you and your 'experts' to wax on.

you actually think that by asserting that not all sociopaths are incapable of empathy as being a 'childish notion'. you refuse to see any discrepancies or any distinctions and sweep all sociopaths with the same brush. the truth is THAT is fucking childish and erroneous.

i hope the OP gets more insight on the subject from YOU and the rest of the posters who no jack squat except for what is floating around already. lmao

All rapists might be sociopaths, though I doubt it. I think the disturbing truth is that most rapists ar "ordinary" people, whatever they are.
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yes, rapists are ordinary people just as sociopaths are ordinary people just as einstein was an ordinary person just as dahmer was an ordinary person.

is this the brilliant insight? everyone is an ordinary person? how about just a person?

lmao
 
Birch, you are mistaken. You think you know more about it than someone who has had to live with it for 24 hours a day for 30 years? I was first comitted when I was 10 years old for setting fire to my fathers' house. Still think its funny?
 
ULTRA said:
Birch, you are mistaken. You think you know more about it than someone who has had to live with it for 24 hours a day for 30 years? I was first comitted when I was 10 years old for setting fire to my fathers' house. Still think its funny?
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you said you don't want to lie and you wouldn't or don't want to hurt people. sociopaths have no problem with hurting people especially those they don't care about, you are not a sociopath. maybe disturbed but i doubt that qualifies you as a sociopath, maybe psychotic.

Get some help Birch.
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perhaps you need help. why? this is not even an appropriate response.

just because i disagree with you or with all these 'expert' opinions.

earth to you? do you realize that even 'experts' can disagree? or do you think they all have it wrapped up and in consensus?

are you that insecure that you need it to be wrapped up very tidy? maybe it's a compulsive disorder? are you anal?

yes, perhaps there is something the mental health professionals can diagnose you for. with all the myriads of disorders, i'm sure there is one that fits your symptoms as well. lmfao
 
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iceaura said:
There are other forms of criminal pathology than the kind labeled "sociopath". There are sadists, for example, and other psychopaths.

The lack of empathy is diagnostic, AFAIK. And one should never underestimate the ability of a sociopath to fake empathy - they've had an entire childhood's worth of training in the matter, and are highly motivated. It gets them what they want.
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I think lack of empathy is a common trait of antisocials but I don't think it's diagnostic in the sense that it's a required trait. "Lack of remorse" is the phrasing used in the diagnostic criteria, and it's an optional criteria.

"Lack of empathy" is a phrase used in the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.... which antisocials do sometimes have as a secondary illness. The two personality disorders combined are often found in serial killers.

source: I'm getting all this from my psychiatric nursing book.
 
I have no problem with individuals, once I get to form some kind of bond or friendship with them. Until then, they are just part of the seething masse that is humanity. Don't forget there are more, more satisfactory ways of destroying someone than killing them. I do have a concience, but I can just flip a switch and turn it off. I've always said cold anger is much much more dangerous than hot anger.
 
WillNever said:
I think lack of empathy is a common trait of antisocials but I don't think it's diagnostic in the sense that it's a required trait. "Lack of remorse" is the phrasing used in the diagnostic criteria, and it's an optional criteria.

"Lack of empathy" is a phrase used in the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.... which antisocials do sometimes have as a secondary illness. The two personality disorders combined are often found in serial killers.

source: I'm getting all this from my psychiatric nursing book.
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there are a lot of people who lack empathy or just plain don't care to exercise that within them as well as people who are narcissistic.

it's just that it's not on any organization's radar until it's something that's an extreme act such as murder, rape etc and also unless they are caught.

this means that there are lots more possible sociopaths, it's just some may not use those means. there are different ways to act out sociopathy. hell, there are ceo's who are sociopaths and people that never get diagnosed perhaps because they do less flagrant acts (by law). someone who beats his wife everyday is not going to get noticed as much (especially if family and friends are supporting them) as someone who goes on serial killing.
 
Sociopathy, like every other psych condition, runs along a spectrum...one assumes there would be mild to severe impairment in empathy, no?

There are lots of people who are capable of being lovely to their family and completely ethics-free when it comes to the larger society...capable of being utterly ruthless in service of their wife/husband and kids.
And people who let their inner demons out to play on their kids. Or their spouse.
(I don't think my father qualified as a sociopath so much as he was someone re-enacting his own trauma. He felt guilt, but he destroyed the people around him anyway. And it doesn't excuse him.)


I do have a concience, but I can just flip a switch and turn it off.
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That's not terribly uncommon, really.
If it wasn't for your other psych issues you would have done wonderfully at clandestine contract work.

I remember a book title that came out, and I wanted to get y hands on and haven't yet...this topic reminded me of it...and I stuck it on my Amazon wishlist now, so I'll remember to get it @ some point...
"The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout.

My first boyfriend was a sociopath-felt no contradiction between telling me he loved me and using me shamelessly for cash. When I wised up he moved on to another woman. Most sociopaths just use their way through life, depending on the kindness of dupes...these are the ones that don't end up in jail, don't get violent, have good impulse control, and really enjoy a good skillful rooking of the people around them.

They have the moral universe of a 2-year old, really; it's "How do I get what I want and not get caught?" And like a 2-Year old the more impulsive get violent when their desires are frustrated.
But unlike a 2-year old, they have an enormously inflated self-opinion, and a view of everyone else as stupid sheeple...
The violent ones have less impulse control, and the serial killers are the rare ones who somehow get precipitated towards killing for amusement-often sexual amusement.

My own...dataless hunch... is that the first category is more prevalent, the non-impulsive calculating manipulators. And no, these aren't going to show up in research, because, well, they don't usually wind up in jail, they lie, and as with most personality disorders-the personality-disordered person doesn't think they have a problem. They think everyone else has the problem, so they won't go into a therapist asking to be fixed, right?
 
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chimpkin said:
My own...dataless hunch... is that the first category is more prevalent, the non-impulsive calculating manipulators. And no, these aren't going to show up in research, because, well, they don't usually wind up in jail, they lie, and as with most personality disorders-the personality-disordered person doesn't think they have a problem. They think everyone else has the problem, so they won't go into a therapist asking to be fixed, right?
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That's true which is why the ones who are used in research studies are the ones who wind up in prison or brush up with the law. Now there is a lot of research in those who wind up in the corporate structure or in divorce and custody cases.
 
I didn't want to be called a sociopath remember. It was not my call. I don't know what I am supposed to be. Unlovable, unemployable unreasonable. Reclusive, dangerous if provoked, I know what I am. Good job too. If I stopped taking my medication, back-slid into my old, destructive ways then what? No good to anyone, no good for anything...just an agent of destruction. What would be the point of staying alive?
 
WillNever said:
I think lack of empathy is a common trait of antisocials but I don't think it's diagnostic in the sense that it's a required trait. "Lack of remorse" is the phrasing used in the diagnostic criteria, and it's an optional criteria.

"Lack of empathy" is a phrase used in the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.... which antisocials do sometimes have as a secondary illness. The two personality disorders combined are often found in serial killers.

source: I'm getting all this from my psychiatric nursing book.
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Fits what I know from having studied psychology for four years at university and what I've picked up independently.
 
As an Inmate, I guess I must have picked up a fair bit. God, I was so ill. I never ate for 46 days. It made me permanently tachycardic. I said, if you want a machine to stop, you gotta stop putting fuel in it. Simple. I wonder if the inability to even extend empathy to onesself is a little severe?
 
Mrs.Lucysnow said:
@Birch

LOL! Making excuses for what? Human traffickers is a criminal activity and sociopathy/psychopathy is a method of diagnosing and individual. Someone can murder another individual as a gang or mob member and not necessarily be a sociopath. It may attract sociopaths but you cannot cannot say 'human traffickers are sociopaths' that you cannot do. .
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Well then, Lucy, the question is: Can the occupation turn the perpetrator into a sociopath? I think there is an element of predisposition though. Whilst it is true someone in the mob is not necessarily or by default a sociopath and also other factors come into play. One being is there oter opportunities available? But the more depraved the criminal activity the mre you would see...well i hate to use the term "anti-social" but for lack of a better phrase i will use it here. In as much as a contract killer is different than someone who steals a pack of gum. Just completely different mentality. But then "anti-social" is not even accurate because look at the serial killers who were "social". Just to give two example: Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy so it is unfair to people who are just shy.

Given that, you would find the incidence of undesirable mental traits in human traffickers higher than in something else.:p Getting back to the mob, now if you said to someone "you have two choices: choice 1 is mobster, choice 2 is school principal (both pay the same)." you would be surprised that some would pick mobster.
 
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superstring01 said:
ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) is the new "hot issue" in the corporate world these days, and most companies (like mine) are now starting (if ever so slowly) detailed training on how to spot and manage those with forms of ASPD. Corporate settings attract sociopaths/psychopaths like moths to a light. Huge financial rewards, herds of mindless sheeple. Do the math.

For HR and corporate purposes, sociopaths are those who don't adapt well. Psychopaths are those who are just as emotionally numb, but who excel at camouflaging who they really are. Whereas the sociopath struggles to fit in, the psychopath will become the skilled manipulator.

In either case, those who do the hiring (HR and managers) are trained (and not very well) at spotting and passing over both during interviews. Many make it in (especially the psychopath), and that is where HR has to be very careful in making sure they spot "scheming" and "plotting". It's common to have backbiting in the office world, so I would imagine that it's important to see who's taking it to the next level.
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But the psychopath is often what the corporate environment likes and is unknowingly looking for. They have the ambition to advance and succeed in their position, which is what they are looking for. They want the admiration and success to lord over others and create envy. They don't care at what cost either so long as it puts them in the lime light. There was a very interesting article in the September edition of Scientific American Mind about the psychopath. I have also done a lot of research on the topic and find it interesting that there is no known treatment for the condition.

It is often a condition that is confused with sociopaths. Also, people automatically assume that a psychopath is like Hannibal Lector, which in reality, most go unnoticed throughout society. The most common reason they go unnoticed is because they have a superficial personality in which they can project a totally different image to the public. The public rarely notices because they are only around them for short periods of time and all they see is their "caring and charm". It often becomes noticed when they enter into relationships and by family members because these people are exposed to them for extended periods of time and they are able to see through the false image they project.
 
A psychopath thinks 2+2=5 rather than 2+2=4. A sociopath knows 2+2=4, but hates to admit it.
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this may be an issue with terminology but some think that there is very little difference between a sociopath and psychopath. often their traits overlap or have much in common.

psycopaths would seem to be more readily noticed than sociopaths. sociopaths are very well aware of and use politics to their advantage. i would say that sociopaths are more skilled as well as more guilty whereas a psycopath really may be 'psycho' in that they are insane.

but then sociopaths lie to get what they want as well as even see 'truths' as mere tools that are unimportant. they are not seen as anything to respect but something in the way to their goal depending on the situation. a sociopath knows right from wrong, they just don't respect it or at least in regards to other people they deem as prey. again, they don't operate on a basis of general ethics. a psycopath can be the same but a pure psycopath may literally be out of touch with reality and not know right from wrong. they may really believe their delusions are true. a sociopath will intentionally pervert the truth for their ends.
 
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