James R said:
Proud_Muslim:
Yes, and to everybody else who is able to think logically.
I dont think that include someone who does not know anything about ISLAM.
Go to your first response !! you are contradicting yourself, first you claimed the population is increasing, when I proved to you you are WRONG, you said SO WHAT ??
It is common in the Muslim world. You just don't hear about it as much. Partly that is due to restricted freedom of the press. Partly, it is due to cultural factors.
Load of Bullshit....heresay and assumptions are not acceptable in any debate as you might know !!
You are making all kinds of unwarranted assumptions. You are reading things into the initial text which are not in the text. The initial text mentions nothing about excluding Americans who claim to be prophets; that's your invention.
I am reading what you are writing SIR.
Go and check the FBI files and compare them with let say the 1970s figures.
I am a physicist, and I think I know something about time. My point (again) was that the text talks about an actual change in the rate time flows, not in how Proud_Muslim feels about time.
No, it does not talk specifically about actual change in time, it takes about how time will passes so quickly.
I provided a quote of data from the US Geological Survey, which you can easily check for yourself, showing that your anecdotal evidence isn't worth a anything.
Loooooool !! very funny, I provided comprehensive study of earthquakes occurance with links, while you just posted something without refernce !!
You go on to talk about suicide rates. I can't be bothered addressing your cut-and-pastes point by point, but I couldn't help noticing this one, which again overlaps my particular areas of expertise:
Blah blah blah.....you lost the debate about suicide rate and you know that, you are too arrogant to admit it.
I dispute these findings, because I do not believe that the authors could possibly have a reliable estimate of the low-frequency EM exposure that people have.
LOOOL ! Another funny desperate conclusion by you !! really James, no matter what, you are blind.
We cannot escape from electromagnetic fields. They are all around us, and have been from long before we started to harness them for our own energy needs.
Not true, they are not around us 100 years ago.
Ok, Proud_Muslim, one more time just for you.
Firstly, you need to realise that gathering 15 stories, each about one or two people converting to Islam, that does not mean that significant numbers of people are converting to Islam.
These are NOT stories my dear friend, they are facts about people converting in their thousands.
They simply go to show that those particular 30 (or fewer) people chose to convert to Islam. These stories do nothing at all to support your claim that Islam is the fastest growing religion.
How about this AMERICAN NEWS website which confirmed that Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3067495/
Secondly, merely quoting people's opinions (based on their gut feelings) does not support your conclusion either. That is the fallacy of argument from authority. It doesn't matter if Britain's Prime Minister says "I think millions of people are converting to Islam". That's just his opinion, and it doesn't count for any more than the opinion of my local green grocer, unless it is backed up by evidence.
But these are not people's opinions, they are FACTS.
Now, let's look at your sources.
ALL sources not just the one that suits you.
Fine. 14,000 people, plus a few. This is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, given that Christianity, for example, is approaching 2,600,000,000 followers.
Islamic Britain lures top people
Sunday Times 22 February 2004
MORE than 14,000 white Britons have converted to Islam after becoming disillusioned with western values, according to the first authoritative study of the phenomenon.
These are the reported figures, what about the not reported ?
Plus, christianity is declining all over the world and you know that, shall I blast the references for you ? or shall I do as you do, just post statements without references ??
Irrelevant, since the Economist's source of data is not mentioned.
Not true , go to the ECONOMIST archive, check the issue date ( which I provided ), it is there on page 6 of their survey of Islam, I have the copy with me now.
Thousands, eh? Again, a drop in the ocean.
Not true, because the Aboriginals in Australia are few in numbrs as well:
BBC: Thousands of Asutralia's Aboriginals are converting to Islam:
http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2902315.stm
Most of these are opinion pieces, or speculation. Also, no comparison is given to other religions, to prove that Islam is the fastest growing.
What a load of crap jAMES??
Islam is spreading so fast in Mexico:
- EVEN IN HAWAII, MORE AND MORE ARE CONVERTING TO ISLAM:
-In South Africa, so many blacks are converting to Islam:
-Thousands in Rawanda-Africa are converting to Islam every year:- Hindus in india are converting to Islam :
- Islam is back to Spain after 500 years:
- More and more americans are converting to Islam specially after 9/11:-
NEW YORK TIMES: ISLAM ATTRACT THOUSANDS DRAWN BEFORE AND AFTER 9/11:-
The Canadian Globe and Mail: Islam is now the fastest growing religion in Canada:
Islam: The Next American Religion?
The above like the thousands in Rawanda who are converting and in Canada and even in America are not opinions..
Even NEW YORK TIMES talked about THOUSANDS of Americans CONVERTING to Islam, so if we add the thousands from every link I have provided, we will get SIGNIFICANT INCREASE !! but oh well, since when blind people accept any facts ???
Faster than Catholicism? So what? That doesn't mean that Islam is the fastest growing religion.
So what ????? I like this so what !! it is only used by people who cant refute the evidence presented to them so they become defensive !
"One of the fastest growing". But not the fastest growing, right?
Yes, one of the fastest in AMERICA, the fastest in the world.
Anglicanism is only one branch of the many Christian churches. Again, this doesn't help prove your point.
Nonesense, Anglicanism is the main religion in England....I thought you already knew this very simple fact.
Anecdote. So a few people converted. How many Guantanamo Bay Guards converted to Christianity, or Hinduism? If more converted to Christianity than to Islam, would that mean that Christianity is the fastest growing religion?
This is not the point, the point is that Islam is spreading even in its enemy heartland !! got it ??
Nothing here says Islam is the fastest growing religion.
CNN: Fast-growing Islam winning converts in Western world:
http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/
did you check the date of the article ?
What has this to do with growth rates?
Islam is religion No.1 in Amsterdam-Holland:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/724820/posts
Really ?? Islam is religion NO.1 in Amsterdam and you said this has nothing to do with growth rates !! are you for real ???
One man out of 6 billion. Wow!
He is NOT any person:
Reuters: Italy's Ambassador to Saudi Arabia (formerly to Albania) Converts to Islam
And hardly any of them support your argument.
really ! I guess you wont say the same had my sources were ISLAMIC sources !!
Migration is certainly a factor. For example, look at France.
Or look at America !!
You're making yourself look like an idiot. Check your facts before you start calling claims outrageous.Can you find ONE source saying the sea level will rise if the ice at the North pole melts? No, you can't.
You are really increadible ! why you always insist on challenges which you know will be lost !! why you challenge someone you know he will beat you !
HERE YOU GO, READY TO EAT, VERY NICE HUMBLE PIE !
In its 2001 assessment of global warming, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected that global mean sea level is expected to rise between 9 and 88 centimetres by 2100, with a 'best estimate' of 50 centimetres.
Higher temperatures lead to higher sea levels
A warmer world will have a higher sea level because as the land and lower atmosphere of the world warm, heat is transferred into the oceans. When materials are heated they expand (thermal expansion). So the heat that is transferred causes sea water to expand, which then results in a rise in sea level.
In addition, water from land-based ice such as glaciers and ice sheets may enter the ocean, thus adding to the rise
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been established by WMO and UNEP to assess scientific, technical and socio- economic information relevant for the understanding of climate change, its potential impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation. It is open to all Members of the UN and of WMO.
http://www.ipcc.ch/
You know nothing about my faith or religion, so don't make assumptions.
fair enough.
Does "thinking ISLAMICALLY" mean never opening your eyes to the truth, then?
What Truth ? who hold the truth ? do you have monopoly over it or something ?
I don't think it does, because I know some intelligent Muslims who are well educated and can think independently. This must just be your own personal slant on Islam.
I think independently when it comes to matters which has nothing to do with my faith, like my car colours and my house, my food...etc.
You are clearly incapable of recognising expertise when you see it. To you, somebody saying that his brother converted to Christianity would be proof that Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
No it would not, but if I was presented with damming proof about that, then I will believe him, unlike you who insist on keeping blind eye.
You can't avoid the question that easily. Don't try to change the subject. If you need a definition, then a reputable space scientist is somebody who has published articles in peer-reviewed journals relating to physics or astronomy, and has connections to highly-regarded academic or space-science institutions.
Great. I'll wait for you to get back to me on this, though actually I don't think I'll ever hear anything more about it from you after this post. You can be sure that I will remind you of this from time to time in the future.
DONT WORRY, I AM READY:
LET ME NOW PROVE TO YOU THAT THE SUN WILL RAISE FROM THE WEST ONE DAY:
REMEMBER YOU PROMISED TO EMBRACE ISLAM AFTER PROVING TO YOU THAT THE SUN WILL RAISE FROM THE WEST !!!
LET US START:
When the Cosmic Crunch to the Universe occurs, the Day of Judgment shall come:
Let us look at what Allah Almighty said about the "Cosmic Crunch" Theory:
"The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"
The following article
http://www.bigear.org/vol1no4/wheeler.htm, which contains an interview with a Scientist,
Professor John Archibald Wheeler, who was a colleague of Albert Einstein, explains the Noble Verse above in good details.
Important Note: Before we go into the article, it is important to know that
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had also talked about the "Cosmic Crunch" Theory by predicting that the Sun around the time of the Cosmic Crunch's occurrence would rise from the West and set in the East due to a change in our orbit's rotation .perhaps the "Cosmic Crunch" would cause the Earth to flip upside down, which would cause the sun to rise from the West and set in the East, or perhaps it would change the rotation of the sun and its planets all together:
Narrated Abu Dhar: "The Prophet asked me at sunset, 'Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?' I replied, 'Allah and His Apostle know better.' He said, 'It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah:
'And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.' (The Quran 36.38)
(Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Beginning of Creation, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421)"
Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established........
and till the sun rises from the West. So when the sun will rise and the people will see it (rising from the West) they will all believe (embrace Islam) but that will be the time when: (As Allah said,) 'No good will it do to a soul to believe then, if it believed not before, nor earned good (by deeds of righteousness) through its Faith.' (6.158) And the Hour will be established while two men spreading a garment in front of them but they will not be able to sell it, nor fold it up; and the Hour will be established when a man has milked his she-camel and has taken away the milk but he will not be able to drink it; and the Hour will be established before a man repairing a tank (for his livestock) is able to water (his animals) in it; and the Hour will be established when a person has raised a morsel (of food) to his mouth but will not be able to eat it.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Afflictions and the End of the World, Volume 9, Book 88, Number 237)"
"The Day ye shall see it, every mother giving suck shall forget her suckling-babe, and every pregnant female shall drop her load (unformed): thou shalt see mankind as in a drunken riot, yet not drunk: but dreadful will be the Wrath of God. (The Noble Quran, 22:2)"
Cosmic Search Vol. 1 No. 4
FORUM: John A. Wheeler
From the Big Bang to the Big Crunch
Scientist-philosopher, teacher-cosmologist, father of the Black Hole, Wheeler's thoughts encompass the entire cosmos from the Big Bang to the Big Crunch.
This exclusive interview with John A. Wheeler was made by Mirjana R. Gearhart of COSMIC SEARCH.
COSMIC SEARCH: You have often commented that the greatest discoveries of science are yet to come. What do you have in mind?
Wheeler: To me, the greatest discovery yet to come will be to find how this universe, coming into being from a Big Bang, developed its laws of operation. I call this "Law without Law" [Or "Order from Disorder"].
COSMIC SEARCH: Could you explain further?
Wheeler: One of the biggest problems is how to state the problem. It's an old saying that the minute you can state a problem correctly you understand 90 percent of the problem. One of the greatest problems concerns the meaning of measurement or observation. According to quantum theory, measurements can influence what happens. The fact that it is difficult to talk about this problem in an easy way suggests that we have much to learn.
This is a partial response to your question. Putting it another way:
How can we possibly imagine the universe with all its regularities and its laws coming into being out of something utterly helter-skelter, higgledy-piggledy and random?
Or, in still another form:
If you were the Lord constructing the universe, how would you have gone about it?
COSMIC SEARCH: That certainly is a very deep question.
Wheeler: It's inspiring to read the life of Charles Darwin and think how the division of plant and animal kingdoms, all this myriad of order, came about through the miracles of evolution, natural selection and chance mutation. To me this is a marvelous indication that you can get order by starting with disorder.
COSMIC SEARCH: Do you think there can be any progress on this problem?
Wheeler: One of the conditions, I think, for advance in this field, as in any field, is believing that advance is possible. What I hope I'm creating is a sense of faith that it can be done. Faith is the number one element. It isn't something that spreads itself uniformly. Faith is concentrated in a few people at particular times and places. If you can involve young people in an atmosphere of hope and faith, then I think they'll figure out how to get the answer. Faith and hope are absolutely central to everything one does.
You need people who have imagination, daring and the ability to get somewhere. That, to me, is the way research works.
Of course another point to all of this is to keep in touch with key ideas, with what people are doing. Make sure you aren't overlooking something. Here's where it's so important to talk with the young people. Some modest young person comes along with some idea no one else is paying any attention to. His idea may just be the central point.
I'm very fortunate that at Austin, the University of Texas has been willing to finance this kind of work, bringing in two or three people each year for a period of time. So, we'll see what happens.
COSMIC SEARCH: You were a colleague of Albert Einstein. We are celebrating the 100th anniversary of his birth this year. When did you first meet him?
Wheeler: October 1933, the month he took up permanent residence in the U.S. was my first meeting with Einstein. Then in 1953, when I first started to teach relativity at Princeton, he was kind enough to invite me to bring my students around to his house for discussions. So, we sat around the dining room table and his secretary, Helen Dukas, and his stepdaughter, Margot, brought tea and the students asked him questions.
COSMIC SEARCH: Are there some tenets of his that stand out in your mind?
Wheeler: Yes, his work revolved around three rules which apply to all science, our problems, and times:
Out of clutter, find simplicity;
From discord make harmony; and finally
In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.
COSMIC SEARCH: You began your work in relativity about that time then?
Wheeler: Yes, it was about the period 1952-53-54-55, Einstein's last four years, when l was just getting into relativity. The thing that really got me into it more than anything else was this concern about what happens to a cloud of matter when it collapses. What's the final state?
I had not yet invented the term "black hole". I hadn't yet realized how important it was to attach a name to this concept.
COSMIC SEARCH: How did you come up with the name "black hole"?
Wheeler: It was an act of desperation, to force people to believe in it. It was in 1968, at the time of the discussion of whether pulsars were related to neutron stars or to these completely collapsed objects. I wanted a way of emphasizing that these objects were real. Thus, the name "black hole".
The Russians used the term frozen star -- their point of attention was how it looked from the outside, where the material moves much more slowly until it comes to a horizon. [Or critical distance. From inside this distance there is no escape.] But, from the point of view of someone who's on the material itself, falling in, there's nothing special about the horizon. He keeps on going in. There's nothing frozen about what happens to him. So, I felt that that aspect of it needed more emphasis.
COSMIC SEARCH: A few years ago you asked the question: "Are life and mind irrelevant to the structure of the universe, or are they central to it?"
Have you found an answer?
Wheeler: No, I'm one of the most baffled men in the world on this subject. There is a line of investigation involving the anthropic (or man-related) principle -- the idea that the universe has to be much as it is or life would be impossible. Not only life as we know it, but any life at all would be impossible. On what else can a comprehensible universe be built but the demand for comprehensibility?
My Princeton colleague, Robert Dicke, expressed it this way:
What good is a universe without somebody around to look at it?
That, to be sure, was an old idea, going back not only to the Bishop Berkeley of the time of Newton, but all the way back to Parmenides, the precursor of Socrates and Plato.
But it was new in the form that Dicke put it. He said if you want an observer around, you need life, and if you want life, you need heavy elements. To make heavy elements out of hydrogen, you need thermonuclear combustion. To have thermonuclear combustion, you need a time of cooking in a star of several billion years. In order to stretch out several billion years in its time dimension, the universe, according to general relativity, must be several billion years across in its space dimensions.
So why is the universe as big as it is? Because we're here!
COSMIC SEARCH: A very interesting view.
Wheeler: You could put it another way: You can say there's an efficiency expert who's come to look over the Lord's shoulder. He says,
"Why, Lord, you're wasting a lot of money on this universe. See, you've put one hundred billion (10^11) stars in the Milky Way, and you've put one hundred billion (10^11) Milky Ways in the universe -- that's ten billion trillion (10^11) stars -- that's a mighty extravagant way to get one planet (the Earth) with life on it so there'll be somebody around to be aware of this universe. Now, Lord, we efficiency people want to cut you down, but we won't cut you down to one star. Instead of 10 billion trillion stars, we'll cut you down to one hundred billion stars -- that's enough to make one galaxy. This will be a great economy move."
Here is the rest of the article:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/hot_gas.htm
JAMES !! YOU HAVE TO EMBRACE ISLAM NOW AS YOU PROMISED !!!
Now, off you go and see if you can find someone who fits this definition and who will support your nonsense. You'll be looking for a long time.
LOOK UP....John A. Wheeler, Scientist-philosopher, teacher-cosmologist, father of the Black Hole, Wheeler's thoughts encompass the entire cosmos from the Big Bang to the Big Crunch.
Albert Einstein, Hidekei Yukawa and John A. Wheeler at Princeton in 1954. Yukawa received the Nobel prize in physics in 1949.
Or do you just want to admit you are wrong right now, and save yourself some time and effort?
Nah, you have to EMBRACE ISLAM RIGHT NOW AS YOU PROMISED ! I PROVED TO YOU SCIENTIFICALLY THAT THE SUN WILL RAISE FROM THE WEST, SO WHEN ARE YOU PLANNING TO MAKE YOUR SHAHADA AND BECOME MUSLIM ?
Proud_Muslim, you are just another religious fanatic.
This is what people say when they lose the debate, you know, I debated so many non muslims, some of them were honest enough to admit their mistakes, some accused me of being extremist, some like you accused me of being fanatic, others said I am sell out Muslim, the fact remain, DEBATE ME WITH FACTS OR GO AND DRINK THE SEA !
Unless you say something convincing, nobody will ever believe you.
Or even when I present FACTS, the haters, the liars and the islamophobes wont believe me, they are as Allah almighty described them in the Quran; DEAF, BLIND AND MUTED, THEY CANT UNDERSTAND.
You give nobody any reason to follow Islam, because you never show the positive aspects of your faith.
I am not interested in anyone to convert to islam, certainly not in this biased anti muslim forum.
Sure, you act as a cheerleader for your religion, telling us all how great it supposedly is, how it used to be dominant in various countries long ago, how (in the past) it has made great contributions to the world, how it is growing so fast. But then you advocate violence and jihad against the cultures of most of the people on this forum, who, presumably, you would like to convert.
You are now LYING !! I challenge you to show me where I advocate violence against innocent civilains, I CHALLENGE YOU, GO ON AND PROVE IT !!
And worse than that, you demonstrate the supreme closed-mindedness of the fanatic. If something isn't Islam, then it shouldn't even be thought of, and it is probably evil. If something is Islam, then it is automatically perfect and correct - praise be to Allah!
Indeed, anything which contradicts Islam should be thrown into the rubbish.
You are no danger at all to anybody's disbelief. Why would anybody want to be like you?
THAT IS WHY SOME HATERS ARE TRYING TO BAN ME !! IF I AM NO DANGER AT ALL TO ANYBODY'S DIS BELIEF, WHY THEY ARE TRYING TO BAN ME THEN ????????????????????????????
I guess you've never considered that maybe the Quran got it wrong.
The Noble Quran is NEVER wrong, it is the absolute truth.
Now, after proving the above, and proving to you scientifically that the sun will raise from the west, it is the time to go ahead and BAN ME !! I am to much embarrassment to you and to others..
You are too quick to delete my posts, accusing me of cuting and pasting with no refernce while you allow haters to post anti muslim materials with impunity, you are the demonstration of the western hypocrisy.
James, I am not fanatic, I am PROUD MUSLIM, in fact, I am VERY VERY PROUD MUSLIM, no matter what you or others do ( even baning me ) this wont stop me, wont affect me, it will only make me stonger in my belief and in my great faith, I dont adovcate violence against innocent civilians, I advocate legitimate self defence against the aggressors.
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com
Finally, I saved this response because I thought it is the best response I had on sciforums so far, no one will ever stop ISLAM, NEVER:
''They the disbelievers want to extinguish Allâh's Light (Islâm) with their mouths, but Allâh will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the disbelievers hate it. '' The Noble Quran 9:32
