Shouldn't it be?
Show that there is *religiously* motivated violence
- Thread starter wynn
- Start date
Shouldn't it be?
Bells
Staff member
Mod Note
Your concern [bitchy comments] about my personal life and circumstance not only has nothing to do with this thread, or the other one you decided to comment on it last time, but my personal life is actually none of your business. And if it wasn't clear to you the last time you decided to venture down this road with me, I do not particularly appreciate you continuing to comment about something you obviously know nothing about, nor are you even capable of understanding, especially since it is a personal and private matter. I understand you have an issue with people not agreeing with you, so you decide to behave in this fashion to try to push for an angry response. But it is not acceptable and is clearly an attempt to flame from you and is in clear violation of the rules of this site..
If you have an issue with how I post, I would strongly suggest you PM James. But next time you comment about my or any one else's personal life on this forum again without explicit consent to do so, I will moderate you. Do I make myself clear?
Jan Ardena:
Please refresh my memory.
If religion is performed by the individual, then that suggests that each individual has his own idea of what the "religion" prescribes.
What's the difference?
Why would somebody believe in the bible if they weren't religious?
Why do you think that "God made me do it" would get anybody a better sentence?
The bible is equivocal on the whole "thou shalt not kill" thing. God directly kills thousands of people in the bible, and also commands others to kill. Maybe this murderer chose to emphasise the parts of the bible where God approves of killing.
Or, maybe this murderer misinterpreted the bible. That would not negate his religious motivation.
One is religious if one is concerned with worship of a deity, the precepts of religion and so on. Staying within somebody's rules isn't a requirement.
What are the benefits?
Because the media doesn't widely report individual cases of people not paying their parking fines or their stated motivations (cf. murders).
Please refresh my memory.
If religion is performed by the individual, then that suggests that each individual has his own idea of what the "religion" prescribes.
What's the difference?
Why would somebody believe in the bible if they weren't religious?
Why do you think that "God made me do it" would get anybody a better sentence?
The bible is equivocal on the whole "thou shalt not kill" thing. God directly kills thousands of people in the bible, and also commands others to kill. Maybe this murderer chose to emphasise the parts of the bible where God approves of killing.
Or, maybe this murderer misinterpreted the bible. That would not negate his religious motivation.
One is religious if one is concerned with worship of a deity, the precepts of religion and so on. Staying within somebody's rules isn't a requirement.
What are the benefits?
Because the media doesn't widely report individual cases of people not paying their parking fines or their stated motivations (cf. murders).
nope, judaisem calls for the return to the holy land by annhialting those who occupied it for centuries.
islam calls for jihad, which is the submission of the world to islam, either by conversion or by accepting its laws or paying tribute.
any religion that isn't outward and forcing itself on humanity either doesn't recognize itself as the best way of life, or is ok with humans not worshiping their true god and hence damage themselves and those around them in bothe life and afterlife.
saving the children of the future from hell by fighting the adults of today is a natural outcome of religions which claim they know who's right and wrong.
hmm.. as a philosophy of reaching truth and the best way of life i guess so..
though at a certain point later on, which may come early or not at all, one will realize the uselessness of it all and decide to screw the objective world and just satisfy his subjective one. after all we pursue objective truth because it makes us feel better about our subjective worlds, if one decides he wants to enjoy his subjective world without caring anymore for the objectivity of it, who're you to tell him he's wrong.
didn't you just incite "being a better person" as moralities reward?
of course, accomplishing "being a better person" to myself rewards ego. accomplishing to others rewards social status/acceptance. if one cares for or is denied both then he has no reason to abide morality. god and an after life never goes away.
James R,
John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
To you, maybe.
One is ''religiously motivated'' and the other is ''Biblically motivated''. :shrug:
Who said anyting about ''belief''?
Saying God, the Devil, an Angel, my dead gran, etc.. made me slaughter my whole family can be classed as insane, and being insane can secure a better sentence, treatment, or even get you off.
No it's not. It means what it says. No interpretation necessary.
[
God does lots of things in the Bible, but it doesn't mean we try to follow them.
If this murderer thinks he is God, then he is his own religion. Atheism.
You either are worshipfull of God, or you aren't.
One cannot be one thing, while simultaneosly being another thing.
Yeah! Like that makes any sense James.
My friend works in the courts, and he's never heard of such pleas.
Seems strange that these pleas only surface in cases where a big sentence
can be administered, as opposed to $100 fines.
jan.
John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
To you, maybe.
One is ''religiously motivated'' and the other is ''Biblically motivated''. :shrug:
Who said anyting about ''belief''?
Saying God, the Devil, an Angel, my dead gran, etc.. made me slaughter my whole family can be classed as insane, and being insane can secure a better sentence, treatment, or even get you off.
No it's not. It means what it says. No interpretation necessary.
[
God does lots of things in the Bible, but it doesn't mean we try to follow them.
If this murderer thinks he is God, then he is his own religion. Atheism.
You either are worshipfull of God, or you aren't.
One cannot be one thing, while simultaneosly being another thing.
Yeah! Like that makes any sense James.
My friend works in the courts, and he's never heard of such pleas.
Seems strange that these pleas only surface in cases where a big sentence
can be administered, as opposed to $100 fines.
jan.
Who said religion makes sense?Yeah! Like that makes any sense James.
As you guys keep shifting the goalposts, define ''religion'', then we'll
take it from theire.
jan.
If I offended you I apologise. I explained myself in a visitor message to you, but since you didn't reply, you might have taken offense to it. If so, I am sorry.
I don't really have a horse in this race. I think it's fairly obvious that there is religiously motivated violence. Luckily I don't feel any need to convince anyone else of the obvious.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
Definition #1 sounds reasonable to me.
There's obviously more to this subject than you think.
How about an answer to the question I asked earlier?
jan.
As a parent and a citizen, one is obligated by the law of the state as far as the care of children is concerned.
One's children are not one's property to treat as one would like. They are legal subjects and there are laws and guidelines within which parents are obligated to act in regard to their children.
See more below -
This is a kind of outlook that I disagree with.
While I on principle believe that God can conquer illness, and many other things, I do not think God is a vending machine.
Praying to God to cure a physical sickness, to give an unemployed person a job, to make a particular person love another, to calm down a volcano etc. - praying for such things is anathema to me, and I cannot connect to the mindset of people who do pray to God for such things.
I think those parents did not understand their legal obligations as parents.
There are too many cases of this kind of parental neglect, some by people who are members of religious organizations, some by people who are not. I don't think it is easy to discern what role the parents' religiousness plays in all this.
Some parents who are members of such churches as the Schaibles, when their children are in a health crisis, leave such churches (or are excommunicated).
The District Attorney said the parents "put their faith before acting in the best interest of their son."
That appears to be the case, but I am not sure what exactly was religious about the faith of those parents, other than the name.
As far as I understand legal terminology and US law, if I would be the judge, I would have come to the same verdict.
Agreed.
In Buddhism, for example, if a person sets out to practice meditation with the intention to cure their physical illness, this is considered as defeating the purpose of meditation. The purpose of meditation is to help make an end to suffering, not to physical pain.
It is simply a matter of definitions. And yes, within all major religions, there exists the concept that there is a hierarchy of advancement in religious/spiritual practice. This is what I have been referring to.
i'll quote what i find relevant.....
*"We tried to fight the devil, but in the end the devil won," Herbert Schaible told homicide detectives in a statement read to the jury during the trial, which began Tuesday.
*Herbert, 42, teaches at a school run by the couple's church, First Century Gospel Church, and Catherine, 41, is a stay-at-home mother.
*The church states on its website that it does not believe God permits sickness or diseases but instead that anything bad is caused by sin and the devil.
*Herbert and Catherine Schaible told police and a city social worker shortly after Kent died on Jan. 24, 2009, that they had prayed for his recovery for about 10 days rather than seek medical help because of their religious beliefs.
*First Century Gospel Church preaches a literal reliance on faith and prayer to heal, and cites such scriptural bases as Abraham's faith in God when he offered to sacrifice his son Isaac. While the church considers members who obtain medical care to have sinned, it does not shun those who see a doctor.According to testimony, the church permits dental care, such as cleanings and filling cavities, and does not proscribe modern inventions such as personal computers.The church's teaching has periodically put it at odds with civil authorities - notably in 1991, when eight children died in a measles epidemic. Their parents were members of either First Century Gospel Church or the nearby Faith Tabernacle of Nicetown, another congregation that espouses faith healing.
..and you can perhaps elaborate on the difficulties of discernment*Herbert, 42, teaches at a school run by the couple's church, First Century Gospel Church, and Catherine, 41, is a stay-at-home mother.
*The church states on its website that it does not believe God permits sickness or diseases but instead that anything bad is caused by sin and the devil.
*Herbert and Catherine Schaible told police and a city social worker shortly after Kent died on Jan. 24, 2009, that they had prayed for his recovery for about 10 days rather than seek medical help because of their religious beliefs.
*First Century Gospel Church preaches a literal reliance on faith and prayer to heal, and cites such scriptural bases as Abraham's faith in God when he offered to sacrifice his son Isaac. While the church considers members who obtain medical care to have sinned, it does not shun those who see a doctor.According to testimony, the church permits dental care, such as cleanings and filling cavities, and does not proscribe modern inventions such as personal computers.The church's teaching has periodically put it at odds with civil authorities - notably in 1991, when eight children died in a measles epidemic. Their parents were members of either First Century Gospel Church or the nearby Faith Tabernacle of Nicetown, another congregation that espouses faith healing.
it appears the Schaibles do too. on principle and in practice. their church cites this.....
#Believing faith in the atonement work of Jesus includes trusting God for healing without medicine, for divine protection without devices, and for daily needs without laid-up money. Acts 3:16 “By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him.” When we worship and serve God, He heals us of illness Exodus 23:25.
...as a basis for that belief
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what is it ok to pray for? do you even believe in prayer?
in any case, that sounds illogical. if one maintains god can conquer illness, if one believes in the power of ritual and prayer, there seems to be nothing inconsistent about holding a belief that faith and prayer can cure illness. you do not have to be a psychopath to connect those dots. one does not have to distort or misread scripture to come to such a conclusion
what i see is an after the fact rationalization. unanswered prayers leads you to believe god is not a vending machine. you have downgraded god
this upsets me
/upset
oh yeah?
eyeball the topic title
you set up a contest and throw down the gauntlet
Not really.
I'd be happy to. Which question is that?
It's about discussing bollocks when the discussion digresses into absurd apologetics at every turn.
Big Chiller
Registered Senior Member
Actually in the holy Qur'an itself is an explicit, unambiguous verse that reads There's no compulsion in religion and jihad is about struggling with one's own ego for God in it's universal meaning the jihad that you're speaking of is probably over for more than a thousand years when the Muslim community needed to be protected from being wiped out. A religion does not need to recognize itself only people who follow it need to recognize it those who do not recognize it do not recognize it.
As for Judaism calling for Jews to take back the holy land I think that's another story and may involve ancient political agenda.
Actually jihad can mean religious war with others as well as a personal struggle. It's by no means anachronistic either.