Should we take Ray Comfort Serious? If no, what not?

[exchemist]

It was mostly me. It's why Jan doesn't really respond to my substantive posts any more. These days, when he responds to me at all it is only to tell me that I'm in denial about God and His Defined Magnificence.

Jan is unable to deal with substantive questions about his beliefs.

I think that, in reality, Jan is going through a period of doubt about his own religion, brought on in part by discussions he has had here. What we're seeing is Jan in the throes of a last-ditch attempt to prop up his own previous religious convictions in his own mind. He is deathly afraid of the unknown. What could his life look like without his God? Where would he find meaning, after all these years of being wrong?

It can be scary when you start to wake up from this kind of self-imposed fog.

He could hang on to God quite easily if he would only dump the stupid and ahistorical creationism. Genesis was seen allegorically as early as 200AD, by Origen, one of the highly respected "Fathers of the Church" whose theology came to be mainstream Christianity.

 

[James R]

Here are some definitions of God from various dictionaries. Dictionaries record how people use the word, remember. They are descriptive, not prescriptive. I post these for reference, since Jan seems to be quite hung up on them.

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed:

1. (Theology) theol the sole Supreme Being, eternal, spiritual, and transcendent, who is the Creator and ruler of all and is infinite in all attributes; the object of worship in monotheistic religions

1. the creator and ruler of the universe; Supreme Being.
2. (l.c.)
a. one of several immortal powers, esp. one with male attributes, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs; deity.
b. the image of such a deity; idol.
3. (l.c.) any deified person or object.

1.A being conceived of as possessing supernatural power, and to be propitiated by sacrifice, worship, etc.; a divinity; a deity; an object of worship; an idol.
2.The Supreme Being; the eternal and infinite Spirit, the Creator, and the Sovereign of the universe; Jehovah.
3.A person or thing deified and honored as the chief good; an object of supreme regard.
4.Figuratively applied to one who wields great or despotic power.

 

[James R]

(more...)

1. The name God is given to the spirit or being who is worshipped as the creator and ruler of the world, especially by Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
2. People sometimes use God in exclamations to emphasize something that they are saying, or to express surprise, fear, or excitement. This use could cause offence.
3. In many religions, a god is one of the spirits or beings that are believed to have power over a particular part of the world or nature.
4. Someone who is admired very much by a person or group of people, and who influences them a lot, can be referred to as a god.

1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

1. One of the male spirits or beings with special powers that people in some religions believe in and worship.

1. The definition of a god is an image, person or thing that is worshiped, honored or believed to be all-powerful or the creator and ruler of the universe.

1. any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature; deity, esp. a male deity: typically considered objects of worship
2. an image that is worshiped; idol
3. a person or thing deified or excessively honored and admired
4. [G-] in monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe, regarded as eternal, infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing; Supreme Being; the Almighty

1. A deity.
   1. A supernatural, typically immortal being with superior powers.
   2. A male deity.
   3. A supreme being; God.
      The most frequently used name for the Islamic god is Allah.
2. An idol.
   1. A representation of a deity, especially a statue or statuette.
   2. Something or someone particularly revered, worshipped, idealized, admired and/or followed.
3. (metaphor) A person in a high position of authority; a powerful ruler or tyrant.
4. An exceedingly handsome man.
   Lounging on the beach were several Greek gods.
5. (Internet) The person who owns and runs a multi-user dungeon.

1. a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshipped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being
2. (in some religions) the being who made the universe and is believed to have an effect on all things
3. (esp. in Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief) the being that created and rules the universe, the earth, and its people

1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. (lowercase) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception

1. God : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped (as in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism) as creator and ruler of the universe Throughout the patristic and medieval periods, Christian theologians taught that God created the universe …— Jame Schaefer … the Supreme Being or God, the personal form of the Ultimate Reality, is conceived by Hindus as having various aspects.— Sunita Pant Bansal
b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 or less commonly God : a being or object that is worshipped as having more than natural attributes and powers specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality Greek gods of love and war
3 : a person or thing of supreme value had photos of baseball's gods pinned to his bedroom wall
4 : a powerful ruler

----
There appears to be a lot of consensus here as to how the word "God" is typically used.

 

[James R]

And you don't know me - so how can you claim I was never a theist?

Is Jan pulling that one on you, too? You must be getting to him.

 

[James R]

He could hang on to God quite easily if he would only dump the stupid and ahistorical creationism.

I must say that I was surprised when I first learned from Jan that he is a literal creationist. Before that, my impression was that he had seemed to me to be a reasonably literate person who I assumed had the benefit of a formal education. As things stand now, I suspect that if Jan has any formal education at tertiary level, it was most likely at one of those Mickey Mouse pretend universities in the United States, where the study of the One True Religion is pushed as least as hard as any secular studies.

On the other hand, it could be the case that Jan has simply had minimal exposure to science and such pursuits. Possibly he studied religion to the exclusion of other intellectual studies, thereby ending up functionally bereft of any real understanding of any science-related topic beyond the most superficial understanding required to survive in the modern world.

I think also that it is very likely that Jan has been actively discouraged from pursuing certain lines of inquiry, taught by his religious masters that these are incompatible with and threatening to his faith. He has been taught to deny and avoid.

Perhaps Jan really believes that he accepts "evolution", as he claims he does, because his understanding of that term is so hopelessly mangled by his religion that he doesn't realise that the term itself encompasses ideas that go far beyond his indoctrinated belief system. I actually doubt this, because I think Jan is willing to tell lies to try to keep his faith intact. After all his time here, he can no longer really pull off a convincing act that he still doesn't know what evolution is. And yet, he keeps trying to do just that.

Maybe Jan has some kind of vested interest in his religion beyond the personal. Maybe he has some monetary stake in promoting lies. Who knows?

 

[Jan Ardena]

How is that disrespectful?

Trust you to see it like that.
“She”, was a paragraph.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Yet I have.

Your lack of belief in God renders you an atheist. Not that you stop being an atheist because you don’t like the term.
You chose to not accept God, so naturally, you lack a belief.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Science is all there is...no need to consider anything that has no model or adopt a position..so neat, so tidy, so liberating.

The words of an atheist.
You can’t run from it. It is like your shadow.
I feel a brilliant analogy coming on...

 

[Jan Ardena]

Yet you do.

No I can’t.
You’re making the mistake of thinking that if one does not accept darwinism, one rejects the whole of science.
That’s is religious fundamental talk.
The problem is, you can’t see it, because you’re wrapped up in it.

I can see why Ray appeals to you.
He is a nice guy but I can see why some folk resort to calling him a con man.

I like Ray Comfort. He seems very genuine.
It wouldn’t surprise if all those claims were from explicit atheists (Darwinists).

But he has books to sell and I guess the idea of any publicity is good publicity must work for him...

Subtle put-down.
That’s very naughty Alex.
But then again, you’re a Darwinist.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Your lack of belief in God renders you an atheist

No it doesn't.

I will not be defined by some word tied to theist... It's a made up silly word .. you are atheist you just need a gap between the a" and the "t" to be a theist....how silly is that..there is no scientific model so it's all a non event.

It's simple I am neither atheist or a theist.

It's like gender just because you are not male doesn't mean you are female..it's new times religion has no say anymore as it has no scientific model which basically leaves it non existent.

You chose to not accept God, so naturally, you lack a belief.

Your statement does not fit any scientific model so it's meaningless.

The words of an atheist.

I could call you a communist but that does not mean you are a communist...don't label me with silly made up words.

It is like your shadow.

No it's not nothing like it ..what were you thinking.

I feel a brilliant analogy coming on

What's an analogy and how could it be brilliant.

You are just making stuff up ...that's what theists do.. Ana Logy , A nal ogy..just made up silly words.

Alex

 

[(Q)]

Your lack of belief in God renders you an atheist. Not that you stop being an atheist because you don’t like the term.
You chose to not accept God, so naturally, you lack a belief.

Jan talks like Jimmy Stewart with the seven foot rabbit standing beside him that no one can see, claiming that although he can see it, everyone else must be rejecting the existence of the rabbit for some strange reason, therefore lacking the belief. Jan has yet to figure out that atheists lack the belief in the first place, therefore are not accepting the claim of the rabbit's existence as opposed to the alleged rabbit itself.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jan talks like Jimmy Stewart with the seven foot rabbit standing beside him that no one can see, claiming that although he can see it, everyone else must be rejecting the existence of the rabbit for some strange reason, therefore lacking the belief. Jan has yet to figure out that atheists lack the belief in the first place, therefore are not accepting the claim of the rabbit's existence as opposed to the alleged rabbit itself.

What’s up?
Can’t bring yourself to talk about “God”?
Why you have use “giant invisible rabbit”?
You’re most probably not aware how much that says about your position.
Clearly your non-acceptance of “God”, is more than your prepared to reveal, but unwittingly reveal anywayz.
That seems to be the theme through all the explicits in this thread.

 

[(Q)]

What’s up?
Can’t bring yourself to talk about “God”?
Why you have use “giant invisible rabbit”?
You’re most probably not aware how much that says about your position.
Clearly your non-acceptance of “God”, is more than your prepared to reveal, but unwittingly reveal anywayz.
That seems to be the theme through all the explicits in this thread.

Thanks Jan, it didn't take you very long to make my point, but you did with the greatest of ease.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

No I can’t.

You do I witnessed same.

You’re making the mistake of thinking that if one does not accept darwinism, one rejects the whole of science.

I not making a mistake at all.
You do avoid science. You said you can't avoid science, I said yet you do..
It is frequently put on a plate in front of you and you avoid it.
You don't get to avoid part as you do...I did not say you rejects the whole of science..go over your words and what they mean. ..

That’s is religious fundamental talk.

What is?

The problem is, you can’t see it, because you’re wrapped up in it.

That's nonsense..I see the blanket I am wrapped in...anyways what am I wrapped in and why is it a problem for you.

He seems very genuine.

I think so also but that can be said about every con man that ever ripped off a mark. He has the "gift of the gab" again another quality found in a con man.
I am not saying he is a con man but after I watched the video Paddo put up he comes over as extremely clever and manipulative ... He seems to tell some fibs.
I could never trust him.

It wouldn’t surprise if all those claims were from explicit atheists (Darwinists)

I don't like to speculate and if I can't say something good about someone I try not to say anything.

Subtle put-down.

Not at all. I am not clever enough to be subtle nor cruel enough to put anyone down.
Actually I was being somewhat complimentary..I have been in sales getting your name out there takes hard work..he does that..just look at his banana video...he became the banana man..that's a marketing genius right there.

That’s very naughty Alex.

You are mistaken.

But then again, you’re a Darwinist

A compliment and insult in one word..that's clever..that's the sort of tactic you notice Ray gets up to .I think that is why I am not sure he is on the level.

Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

Thanks Jan, it didn't take you very long to make my point, but you did with the greatest of ease.

Another cop out.

 

[(Q)]

Another cop out.

Poor Jan, continuously struggles with definitions.

A cop out is a poor excuse for not doing something, like if your boyfriend asked you out and you said you had to wash your hair. If you look closely at your previous response to my post, that would be more in line with a a cop out. Or, literally every post you make towards questions regarding science.

 

[Jan Ardena]

It is frequently put on a plate in front of you and you avoid it.

I bet you can’t provide any examples.

You don't get to avoid part as you do...I did not say you rejects the whole of science..go over your words and what they mean. ..

I cannot avoid any part of science, because science deals with reality. I can avoid ideas, or beliefs, but not science, any more than I can avoid truth.

That's nonsense..I see the blanket I am wrapped in...anyways what am I wrapped in and why is it a problem for you.

You wrapped up in religious fundamentalists mindset. You can’t see that darwinism is a philosophy, or a scientific idea. It Proponents have piggy-backed it on a known scientific fact (which everyone is aware of).
Now you deem those who do not accept your philosophy, are avoiding science.
But it’s not a problem for me.
I just find it intriguing.

I think so also but that can be said about every con man that ever ripped off a mark. He has the "gift of the gab" again another quality found in a con man.

“Con man” is an accusation you attach. There has been no official investigation to give you a reason to make it.
Furthermore you male it because of what he stands for. You are being unreasonable.

I don't like to speculate and if I can't say something good about someone I try not to say anything.

Then stop making false allegations. I kind of expect better from you.

Not at all. I am not clever enough to be subtle nor cruel enough to put anyone down.
Actually I was being somewhat complimentary..I have been in sales getting your name out there takes hard work..he does that..just look at his banana video...he became the banana man..that's a marketing genius right there.

He didn’t come up with the term. It was explicits.
But why not capitalise on that?

A compliment and insult in one word..that's clever..that's the sort of tactic you notice Ray gets up to .I think that is why I am not sure he is on the level.

It is neither a compliment or an insult.
It is what it is.

 

[(Q)]

I cannot avoid any part of science, because science deals with reality. I can avoid ideas, or beliefs, but not science, any more than I can avoid truth.

Words Jan struggles to understand the meaning.

 

[Jan Ardena]

A cop out is a poor excuse for not doing something,

Right. A poor excuse for a response.
You’re all washed up, but proud.

 

[(Q)]

Right. A poor excuse for a response.
You’re all washed up, but proud.

You don't need to keep reminding us how terrible your responses are to our posts, Jan, we have many examples.