Should man rely on himself or God?

Greatest I am

Greatest I am

Valued Senior Member
Should man rely on himself or God?

I do not agree at all with the premise in this link and think that any God would prefer to create a self reliant autonomous people that he could released and set free. We are not to be a make work project for God.

The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNE7xzPv9ow&feature=related

If on earth as it is in heaven is to have any kind of meaning for us, then to apply God’s standards of children having to rely forever on parental leadership is counter to what any good man would want for his children.

If at some point in time, my children did not take responsibility for their own actions, then I would say that I am a failure as a parent. All children must be allowed to grow up to adulthood.

I see God giving man dominion just exactly for this reason.

Should mankind then eventually allow God to move on, or should we force him to be our baby sitter forever?

Regards
DL
 
Actually, according to the scripture, God encourages reliance on him. In fact, the scripture goes further saying that people should depend on God. Hebrews 4:16, Luke 11:13, and examples of failiure to rely on God can be found in Nu 20:12, Dt 1:32; 9:23, 2Ki 17:14, Ps 49:6 and Isa 42:17
 
I'd think each person should choose who they believe in. The right to choose is the greatest thing a free society can ever give to its citizens. Some people need myths and legends to believe in while others do not.
 
As a scientist I give the scriptures the same level of scrutiny as any other document. This leads me to believe that it is the basic tenets described in the stories, legends and parables that are important. The messages are quite clear, and should one decide to follow them one will lead a good and healthy life. These days, most people are literate and educated. This allows for a greater degree of awareness and the abitity to make informed choises.
So long as a person wants to live a good life, he can do so through the scriptures or through considered living. I'm not sure if it really makes much difference in the end. The goals are basically the same.
 
GIA,

The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.
Click to expand...


This inference is a trigger that stops you from really opening your mind.
A+E made their choice, knowing the consequences of their action.

jan.
 
Last edited:
Elaborating on myth is just more presumption, but, given that, Adam and Eve were literally "born yesterday", as adults, not even having had a childhood, and God, with His infinite knowledge, didn't even know that when you tell someone not to touch something, they probably will, having focused on it all the more.

Just more myth-takes, as usual.
 
Greatest I am said:
Should man rely on himself or God?

I do not agree at all with the premise in this link and think that any God would prefer to create a self reliant autonomous people that he could released and set free. We are not to be a make work project for God.

The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNE7xzPv9ow&feature=related

If on earth as it is in heaven is to have any kind of meaning for us, then to apply God’s standards of children having to rely forever on parental leadership is counter to what any good man would want for his children.

If at some point in time, my children did not take responsibility for their own actions, then I would say that I am a failure as a parent. All children must be allowed to grow up to adulthood.

I see God giving man dominion just exactly for this reason.

Should mankind then eventually allow God to move on, or should we force him to be our baby sitter forever?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

O.K. I will stay calm . Dude you should not just allow your children to grow. You need to feed them, Spiritually physically and mentally . Mind Body and Spirit makes for a healthy human being. So you don't allow your children to go blindly through life. My rule of thumb is to praise them every chance I get . The sooner you start this the sooner they believe it and there belief systems in them selves guide them to great contributions . Plus the children like what they do and by success in there endeavors they are motivated to work on things even harder. The old saying Success breeds success . It works
 
I don't get the OP's question,.It's like asking should we rely on ourselves or a zebra.??

Now if we go into the made up world, here would be the truth.Even given the falling numbers in Christianity and counting the other religions claiming their god(s) we still have a large following.Followers being what they are would be relying on god.If we look around us at the World we can see it's in shambles,thus the act of following god isn't working out so well.All that's left is ourselves,if we all worked together we could turn this around.

Whats stopping us from working together now? Answer is to many groups following their own god and religious practices and thinking they know what their god wants,which is different from others gods.If you rely on your god you then depend on it.That dependency causes your inaction.No action equals what you see today.
 
I believe man needs to rely on and hold themselves responsible. We have this tendency to allow god to take all the blame for our wrong actions. Aswell as giving god credit for shit he didnt do as far as im concerned. "Thank God that man saved that child from getting hit by that bus! Praise Jesus!" NO. Thank you dude who saved the damn kid. See where im getting at? Personally, i believe society will eventual evolve to where the only religions on earth are that worshiping and praising human beings potential and wonder.
 
ULTRA said:
Actually, according to the scripture, God encourages reliance on him. In fact, the scripture goes further saying that people should depend on God. Hebrews 4:16, Luke 11:13, and examples of failiure to rely on God can be found in Nu 20:12, Dt 1:32; 9:23, 2Ki 17:14, Ps 49:6 and Isa 42:17
Click to expand...

I agree.
According to scripture God never wants to lose his slaves, I agree.
His so called free will gift----do it my way or burn forever ---shows this quite well.

You did not really answer the question though.
Care to.

Regards
DL
 
cosmictraveler said:
I'd think each person should choose who they believe in. The right to choose is the greatest thing a free society can ever give to its citizens. Some people need myths and legends to believe in while others do not.
Click to expand...

I agree.
You did not really answer the question though.
Care to.

Regards
DL
 
ULTRA said:
As a scientist I give the scriptures the same level of scrutiny as any other document. This leads me to believe that it is the basic tenets described in the stories, legends and parables that are important. The messages are quite clear, and should one decide to follow them one will lead a good and healthy life. These days, most people are literate and educated. This allows for a greater degree of awareness and the abitity to make informed choises.
So long as a person wants to live a good life, he can do so through the scriptures or through considered living. I'm not sure if it really makes much difference in the end. The goals are basically the same.
Click to expand...

A good life means good laws. Are laws like those spoken of here what you would promote?
How about equality for Gays and women?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2_LqOS3uo

Regards
DL
 
Jan Ardena said:
GIA,




This inference is a trigger that stops you from really opening your mind.
A+E made their choice, knowing the consequences of their action.

jan.
Click to expand...

Yes they did. They showed that they were autonomous and free and were punished for it.
I still thank God, so to speak, that they chose to be intelligent instead of following God’s command to remain as bright as a cow.

What would you do?
Give up the opportunity for a moral sense or follow them?

BTW. Your "knowing the consequences of their action." is quite wrong.

Try to get the quote where God warned them of the sin being passed down to their children, us.
You will not find it.

Regards
DL
 
Me-Ki-Gal said:
O.K. I will stay calm . Dude you should not just allow your children to grow. You need to feed them, Spiritually physically and mentally . Mind Body and Spirit makes for a healthy human being. So you don't allow your children to go blindly through life. My rule of thumb is to praise them every chance I get . The sooner you start this the sooner they believe it and there belief systems in them selves guide them to great contributions . Plus the children like what they do and by success in there endeavors they are motivated to work on things even harder. The old saying Success breeds success . It works
Click to expand...

Why would you not be calm?

I like your child rearing methods.

You did not answer the question though. Care to?

Regards
DL
 
X-Man2 said:
I don't get the OP's question,.It's like asking should we rely on ourselves or a zebra.??

Now if we go into the made up world, here would be the truth.Even given the falling numbers in Christianity and counting the other religions claiming their god(s) we still have a large following.Followers being what they are would be relying on god.If we look around us at the World we can see it's in shambles,thus the act of following god isn't working out so well.All that's left is ourselves,if we all worked together we could turn this around.

Whats stopping us from working together now? Answer is to many groups following their own god and religious practices and thinking they know what their god wants,which is different from others gods.If you rely on your god you then depend on it.That dependency causes your inaction.No action equals what you see today.
Click to expand...

I do not think the world is in that bad a shape although there are a few things we would both like to change.

You are basically correct though. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Regards
DL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top