Should I convert them?
- Thread starter chris4355
- Start date
In that case, you also have to wonder what isn't 'solipsism in disguise'.
Challenge ideals all you like, it's fun, and can be enlightening on both sides.
Convert?
To what?
Your way of thinking?
Are you serious? That's part of the reason why institutionalised religion is
so disliked, why be like that.
The thing is, your understanding of religion, is incomplete, and you are in no position to convert anybody to your incomplete way of thinking.
The same applies to those who are religious.
Resist being an arrogant S.O.B.
Live and let live.
jan.
what do you mean "how so"? religious people are always out to convert others to their chosen religion, that's how so. i don't understand why it is that people have to be so codependent. why can't you be happy with what you believe and have enough respect for others to allow them their own choices and beliefs? this incessant codependence is a power play and is what makes religion suck. so you're making atheism another religion.
That hasn't worked. Their choices and beliefs in medieval myths and superstitions affects my life every day, and I don't like it. They won't stop affecting my life no matter what I say or do.
What exactly would you recommend?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Why ?
Wow!
The question of conflict; do you act or just over-look the BS?
The reason i fall into the 'honesty' aspect is then each is liable. No one has a right to even further something that is not true as it then continues what is bad; we all affected by it then.
That is why that 'judgment' thing is so nasty in them religions as often called the 'end times'.... the people begin to wake up and realize what religions do is require a person to follow a belief over truth, and them fibs harm mankind. (see the whole middle east conflict now spreading on the globe)
No matter what makes people 'feel good'........... reality is reality and by 'equality' then we each have a right to know the truth. When a person speaks to you, within 2 seconds if they say a fib or misrepresent something you know is wrong; what do you do? Seems logical to discount any relevance to anything they represent, for the most part; they are worthless to you.
I see this as normal. In that i expect you to be fair and i will be responsible for my actions and what i represent; kind of like how you define a friend within your own circle; you trust them to tell you straight.
well fibs can be taught at an early age within theology. These begin to unfold the deceptions that have carried on for generations. What many have been lead to believe is so far off and was entrusted to people of leadership. ( a bunch of folks are going to be far more pissed than you have even watched on TV; think global in scale)
i often say some of the most responsible people you will ever meet will be aetheist as they do not imply an outside anything as the cause of 'their own actions'........... ! They already realizing they are responsible and duty-full, to paying attention to what they do. They can account for themselves, personally and be able to interact with direct responsibility to their actions.
kind of like a rock, knowing it is making itself roll.............. maybe that is why aetheists are coupled with rock-n-roll?
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Lori,
i enjoy your posts but let's open a can of worms with your line there
that is exactly what believing some idea as true does to people, especially when based on self observant pursuits: notice the similarity to the 'gay rights' movements
they sell what is inconsistant with nature and being 'good' (normal) when it is based on the same priniciples of 'continuing life' that religions sell.
all mankind seeks the same goal (practically instinctive but of choice as to the directions of pursuits)
my point is, that religions work to self perpetuate just as the gay community does and in both cases the key beliefs are what is wrong, not the intent as many apply, but sold incorrectly and allowed to continue
aetheism could be a religion but 'being honest' is the best choice, no matter the beliefs as then each can evolve.
pretty basic
i enjoy your posts but let's open a can of worms with your line there
that is exactly what believing some idea as true does to people, especially when based on self observant pursuits: notice the similarity to the 'gay rights' movements
they sell what is inconsistant with nature and being 'good' (normal) when it is based on the same priniciples of 'continuing life' that religions sell.
all mankind seeks the same goal (practically instinctive but of choice as to the directions of pursuits)
my point is, that religions work to self perpetuate just as the gay community does and in both cases the key beliefs are what is wrong, not the intent as many apply, but sold incorrectly and allowed to continue
aetheism could be a religion but 'being honest' is the best choice, no matter the beliefs as then each can evolve.
pretty basic
Simply because if you suggest that one worldview is solipsistic, it's reasonable to inquire which other ones are not, so as to see the difference.
But you started a thread on it in the meantime, we'll see how that goes.
Because if you just 'let' everyone believe and do whatever they believe and do, that is eventually the same as:
1. approving of their beliefs and deeds, whatever they are,
2. relativizing your own stance to a mere opinion - meaning that your stance is merely an opinion, and does not necessarily have any connection to how things really are.
People normally can't stand for a long time to hold 1 and 2, as holding 1 and 2 eventually makes a person insane.
I don't think that trying to "convert" people is in any way the right move here. This attitude forces people into the roles of defense and offense--and when someones' focus is to defend (or attack) they are unable to absorb what the other side has to say.
With that said, I don't necessarily believe that you should be silent about your stance or why you hold it. It is my belief that meaningful conversation can bring us all closer to the truth. If you have Christian friends who would like to talk about the issue with you--in the interests not of conversion but of reaching a greater understanding of one another--then I say go for it, but do so gently. If you approach your friends in this manner then you are less likely to alienate them, and ultimately more likely to change their perceptions as they'll be more open to yours. This goes both ways, however. I would encourage you to be open to them as well.
In my personal experience I haven't met many Christians who wish to have honest conversations about their faith. When it comes to people who wish only to convert me I avoid the subject completely, as I don't anticipate it will be a fruitful conversation for either side.
With that said, I don't necessarily believe that you should be silent about your stance or why you hold it. It is my belief that meaningful conversation can bring us all closer to the truth. If you have Christian friends who would like to talk about the issue with you--in the interests not of conversion but of reaching a greater understanding of one another--then I say go for it, but do so gently. If you approach your friends in this manner then you are less likely to alienate them, and ultimately more likely to change their perceptions as they'll be more open to yours. This goes both ways, however. I would encourage you to be open to them as well.
In my personal experience I haven't met many Christians who wish to have honest conversations about their faith. When it comes to people who wish only to convert me I avoid the subject completely, as I don't anticipate it will be a fruitful conversation for either side.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
But I see a lot of similarities though, that's why I asked.
Oh well.. I'm not trying to offend anyone, so never mind.
i believe in freedom. we all have different paths and learn different ways. yeah, we all suffer the consequences of what is not right, but it's definite that we all contribute to it regardless of our religious beliefs. i don't want to "let" anyone do anything, just as i don't want anyone to "let" me do what i want. everyone has a right to protect themselves, but i don't think the way to achieve that is through aggression or an attempt to control others. as a matter of fact, it seems to me that the most violence in this world occurs because of endeavors like these, and in the name of religion.
Bishadi,
regarding your analogy to gay rights. activists aren't trying to convince other people to become gay. they're not even trying to convince other people that being gay is a "right thing to do". they're asking to be afforded the same rights and freedoms as heteros and to not be discriminated against because of their sexuality and i think that the same right should be afforded in regards to a person's religious beliefs. people should have freedom.
regarding your analogy to gay rights. activists aren't trying to convince other people to become gay. they're not even trying to convince other people that being gay is a "right thing to do". they're asking to be afforded the same rights and freedoms as heteros and to not be discriminated against because of their sexuality and i think that the same right should be afforded in regards to a person's religious beliefs. people should have freedom.
it is my experience, that you should know what you experience, and believe in what you know. don't try to speculate. don't try to figure it all out. just go with the flow. don't you ever wonder why it is that some people keep doing the same stupid things over, and over, and over again, until the day they die? it's because they're never humbled enough to want to learn. so why do we want to do the same thing that has not worked now for millenia? the control, the power play, the coersion? it doesn't work! for god's sake isn't anything obvious? my favorite passage in the bible is when jesus is talking to nicodemus and he tells him that the spirit is like the wind. you don't know where it comes from and you don't know where it's going, but you know it when it hits you in the face, and that's paraphrased of course. i'm no bible thumper, because i don't memorize scripture so i can try to convince people of things they haven't experienced. me, i've been hit in the face so i know there's wind. you want to know what it's like? take a step outside. maybe it'll hit you too. then you'll know.
That's called living in ignorant bliss. No thanks.
That's called being a follower in a cult. No thanks.
Yes, it is obvious, but not to you, apparently.
That's sheer nonsense, Lori. You can no more confirm or distinguish your so-called experiences to a god than you can to the effects of eating moldy cheese, or passing wind.
What's more, you don't have anything to collaborate or compare your experiences to because you've never seen a god before, so how would you know? You can't. It's as simple as that.
remember i said; 'let's open a can of worms'
i agree in a sense that that is not the sales pitch
they have the same rights and freedoms; they want more; the idea that it is normal! (a fib)
i don't tell or show people my sexual preferences
nor do i wear 6 inch pumps (size 12 mens) and walk down market street holding my partners privates and expect people to accept it as OK (normal)
fact is, same sex is not 'normal' it is an alternative
sex parts are for procreation; the fun is what 'we the people' enjoy but has nothing to do with 'rights'
marriage is not a 'right' it is a religious cannotation incorporated into society
sex is nature method of procreation, it aint a right, it is a necessity for life to continue
so if what they are doing is strictly for self preferences, then they should be having their 'self-fun' in the closet; like most every teenage boy (even girls) do all over the earth by themselves
BUT DO NOT EXPECT, the majority of the earth's population to change for the needs of a few
as what you are seeing is the use of legal and compassionate ideology to be used for a corrupt cause (the seeking of selfish preferences to be norm)
ie..... when people think gays are born that way, i state that there are more people born each year with cleft palets, then hemorphadite; what does society do? they assist the few, rather than change everyone's lip to make the few happy. (feel accepted)
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