Should I convert them?

Should I convert them?


  • Total voters
    31

chris4355

Registered Senior Member
I am an atheist, who is surrounded by religious people in my everyday life.

Should I be neutral about it? Or should I challenge their beliefs?

One of the reasons why I don't care is because I don't necessarily believe religion does good or bad... I think its just the people themselves regardless of what they believe that are capable of killing, cheating, stealing and violating peoples rights.

BTW, for the last option, instead of "capable of killing", I meant to say "capable of doing wrong"...
 
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I am an atheist, who is surrounded by religious people in my everyday life.

Should I be neutral about it? Or should I challenge their beliefs?

You should know the answer to that already, if you call yourself an atheist.
Or perhaps you haven't worked out your atheist position very much yet.
 
You should know the answer to that already, if you call yourself an atheist.
Or perhaps you haven't worked out your atheist position very much yet.

I have been one for about 7 years now.... at first I was very aggressive about it and always challenged their beliefs.

then i got bored of hearing the same shit, so i stopped caring.

I don't know, a part of me still wants to always get in peoples faces about it because i feel its right, but I hate doing that.
 
I had an urge to "correct" religious people for about 4 months when I was about 18, then I realised "why the fuck should I care?". Laugh at them behind their backs maybe, think less of them in general etc etc, but I couldn't be fucked debating with them, it's not like it's gonna work and even if it did, who cares?
 
I am an atheist, who is surrounded by religious people in my everyday life.

Should I be neutral about it? Or should I challenge their beliefs?

One of the reasons why I don't care is because I don't necessarily believe religion does good or bad... I think its just the people themselves regardless of what they believe that are capable of killing, cheating, stealing and violating peoples rights.

BTW, for the last option, instead of "capable of killing", I meant to say "capable of doing wrong"...

You could challenge them to think critically.
 
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Should I be neutral about it? Or should I challenge their beliefs?

Do they "challenge" you about your beliefs? Do they confront you and ask questions as to why you do not believe as they do? You should just show them they have the right to enjoy their belief in whatever it is they want just as you have your right to think the way you do. Never provoke others just to show them they are wrong, but instead try to get along with them and at times tell them what you think about to get you through your life if the subject arises. :)
 
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your poll makes you sound exactly like a religious person. my answer is emphatically no.
 
I am an atheist, who is surrounded by religious people in my everyday life.

Should I be neutral about it? Or should I challenge their beliefs?

One of the reasons why I don't care is because I don't necessarily believe religion does good or bad... I think its just the people themselves regardless of what they believe that are capable of killing, cheating, stealing and violating peoples rights.

BTW, for the last option, instead of "capable of killing", I meant to say "capable of doing wrong"...

No, that would make you like an Evangelical. And they give Christians a bad name.
 
Are these people co-workers or family/friends ?

"One of the reasons why I don't care is because I don't necessarily believe religion does good or bad... I think its just the people themselves regardless of what they believe that are capable of killing, cheating, stealing and violating peoples rights."

This is good. Ditto.

If they are co-workers then no, leave religion and politics out because they are not the friends you choose anyway. They don't want to hear your opinions anymore than you want to hear theirs.

If they are friends and family than yes, because these are the people who you intend to invest a lot of time and energy with. It's good to know where they stand. Talking about the weather will get real boring.
 
i think its good to discuss it with people who are interested just to share perspective. i think its worthwhile challenging a person's beliefs, but it supports forcing religion/political etc. stuff on people which i disagree with. better to let people make mistakes than control them.
 
I am an atheist, who is surrounded by religious people in my everyday life. Should I be neutral about it? Or should I challenge their beliefs?
You have to do what feels right to you, as long as you're not being an asshole about it. Don't do to them what you would not appreciate them doing to you. Tell them you're an atheist and explain why religion is wrong, but don't try to convert them.

For one thing, 99.9999% of the time it's impossible. The probability is high that in your entire life you'll never meet one religious person whom you can convert. Were you "converted" to atheism? Or were you raised that way like I was? Or did you have an epiphany all on your own without anyone trying to "convert" you?

Religion is a collection of what Jung calls archetypes, instinctive beliefs programmed into our neurons by DNA, just like the instinctive belief that we should not step off a cliff or stare down a bear. Very few people understand why they believe in religion, but it's stronger than any beliefs they acquire through reasoning and learning. People are not rational about religion so your rational arguments won't sway them.

You'll just frustrate yourself and lose a lot of friends.
One of the reasons why I don't care is because I don't necessarily believe religion does good or bad... I think its just the people themselves regardless of what they believe that are capable of killing, cheating, stealing and violating peoples rights.
Religion--at least the Abrahamic varieties that have control over the world--reinforces humans' tribal instinct by teaching them that people who disagree with them are wrong, in need of help, or downright evil. Abrahamists have obliterated three of the world's six precious independently-developed civilizations (Egypt, Aztec and Inca) in the name of their god and with the encouragement of their religious leaders. Communities don't get much badder than that.
 
You could challenge them to think critically.

Thats usually the basis of my argument.

I had an urge to "correct" religious people for about 4 months when I was about 18, then I realised "why the fuck should I care?". Laugh at them behind their backs maybe, think less of them in general etc etc, but I couldn't be fucked debating with them, it's not like it's gonna work and even if it did, who cares?

Thats my current stance too, just curious if I should change it.

Do they "challenge" you about your beliefs? Do they confront you and ask questions as to why you do not believe as they do? You should just show them they have the right to enjoy their belief in whatever it is they want just as you have your right to think the way you do. Never provoke others just to show them they are wrong, but instead try to get along with them and at times tell them what you think about to get you through your life if the subject arises. :)

I never act provocatively with those sorts of subjects... I understand many take it very personally. Good points.

your poll makes you sound exactly like a religious person. my answer is emphatically no.

How so?

No, that would make you like an Evangelical. And they give Christians a bad name.

Are these people co-workers or family/friends ?

"One of the reasons why I don't care is because I don't necessarily believe religion does good or bad... I think its just the people themselves regardless of what they believe that are capable of killing, cheating, stealing and violating peoples rights."

This is good. Ditto.

If they are co-workers then no, leave religion and politics out because they are not the friends you choose anyway. They don't want to hear your opinions anymore than you want to hear theirs.

If they are friends and family than yes, because these are the people who you intend to invest a lot of time and energy with. It's good to know where they stand. Talking about the weather will get real boring.

I talk about it with friends. I actually got a couple of my friends into it.

I would not debate about this with co workers... :rolleyes:

i think its good to discuss it with people who are interested just to share perspective. i think its worthwhile challenging a person's beliefs, but it supports forcing religion/political etc. stuff on people which i disagree with. better to let people make mistakes than control them.

true

You have to do what feels right to you, as long as you're not being an asshole about it. Don't do to them what you would not appreciate them doing to you. Tell them you're an atheist and explain why religion is wrong, but don't try to convert them.

I don't know, deep down I feel like making them let go of it is the right thing, that's all.

For one thing, 99.9999% of the time it's impossible. The probability is high that in your entire life you'll never meet one religious person whom you can convert. Were you "converted" to atheism? Or were you raised that way like I was? Or did you have an epiphany all on your own without anyone trying to "convert" you?

I was raised very religious and couldn't tolerate it, it never made sense to me. Even as a 5 year old I remember making excuses and attempting to find logical reasoning to justify my beliefs, at around 15 I just gave up and quit it. Like Lounatic when I first quit being religious I became very agressive with my new beliefs, eventually I just stopped caring.

Religion is a collection of what Jung calls archetypes, instinctive beliefs programmed into our neurons by DNA, just like the instinctive belief that we should not step off a cliff or stare down a bear. Very few people understand why they believe in religion, but it's stronger than any beliefs they acquire through reasoning and learning. People are not rational about religion so your rational arguments won't sway them.

right. but sometimes I can't help but feel like those same religious people around me are more rational than me in plenty of other situations, I can't help but not understand why they cannot be rational about religion. After all, I got out of it myself just by thinking about it, it took a while but it worked.

You'll just frustrate yourself and lose a lot of friends.Religion--at least the Abrahamic varieties that have control over the world--reinforces humans' tribal instinct by teaching them that people who disagree with them are wrong, in need of help, or downright evil. Abrahamists have obliterated three of the world's six precious independently-developed civilizations (Egypt, Aztec and Inca) in the name of their god and with the encouragement of their religious leaders. Communities don't get much badder than that.

never thought of that, as usual, awesome posts fraggle.
 
I don't know, deep down I feel like making them let go of it is the right thing, that's all.
But they feel the same way about you. I assume you're an American. Freedom of religion is one of the Constitutional rights that every American has, no matter how much you don't like it. (And you'd better like it because if it were overturned you know it wouldn't be done in such a way as to benefit atheists!) Yes, I know that only applies to government coercion, but it's a good model for all of us. You don't like being cornered by religious evangelists, so unless you simply look down on religious people, have no respect for them, and think they're just dog turds on your lawn, you should treat them with the same minimal civility that you expect to be treated with: live and let live. That is, after all the basis of civilization!

And I stress once again: Even if it's the right thing, you will not be able to "make them let go of it." Choose your battles wisely because you only have a finite amount of energy. If you dissipate it on unachievable goals, your tombstone will read, "Here lies Chris. On the cusp of a Paradigm Shift when people around him were changing the world, he tried real hard but he never achieved anything."
I was raised very religious and couldn't tolerate it, it never made sense to me. Even as a 5 year old I remember making excuses and attempting to find logical reasoning to justify my beliefs, at around 15 I just gave up and quit it. Like Lounatic when I first quit being religious I became very agressive with my new beliefs, eventually I just stopped caring.
So please bear your own experience in mind. Nobody converted you to atheism. It almost never happens that way; it comes from within. Life is full of hard lessons and this is one of yours.
but sometimes I can't help but feel like those same religious people around me are more rational than me in plenty of other situations, I can't help but not understand why they cannot be rational about religion.
The human brain is an amazing organ, isn't it. People have the ability to be rational in some areas and irrational in others. Surely you've observed this phenomenon in arenas other than religion. Politics, morality, drugs, war, race relations...

It's similar to cognitive dissonance, the ability to believe two things that are mutually exclusive and be perfectly serene with it.
After all, I got out of it myself just by thinking about it, it took a while but it worked.
As I said, you need to let other people do it that way because it seems to be the only way that works. Be a good citizen and a good friend and share your ideas, but stop short of becoming an evangelist. Nobody listens to a pain in the ass and there's no quicker way to become a pain in the ass than to rag on people about their religion.

Very few of the tens of millions of Americans who got caught up in the Religious Redneck Retard Revival in the late 1970s and early 1980s were converted by evangelists. They had epiphanies just like you did. Their epiphanies just happened to take them in the wrong direction.

The percentage of the American population who identify themselves as atheists is growing slowly but steadily, and it's stronger in Europe. Be patient.

The percentage who are not atheists but do not affiliate themselves with any organized religion is even larger; it's up into the double digits in the USA. This is cause for celebration, since it's the organized, Abrahamic, religions that are responsible for virtually all of the religiously-inspired violence and stupidity on this planet. (The Hindu-Buddhist conflict on Sri Lanka is the only exception that comes to mine and my Indian friends are adamant in the admonition that religion actually plays a very small role in that one, if at all.)

You may object to belief in gods and the supernatural on philosophical grounds, but it's specific belief in the god of Abraham and his various looney prophets that leads people into periodic frenzies of war and genocide. It's monotheism, the pathetic one-dimensional model of the rich human spirit, that suppresses a huge portion of their identity into what Jung calls their Shadow, so it festers and explodes at depressingly regular intervals.
 
you should treat them with the same minimal civility that you expect to be treated with: live and let live. That is, after all the basis of civilization!

...the god of Abraham and his various looney prophets that leads people into periodic frenzies of war and genocide. It's monotheism, the pathetic one-dimensional model of the rich human spirit, that suppresses a huge portion of their identity into what Jung calls their Shadow, so it festers and explodes at depressingly regular intervals.

I still wonder how we can offer minimal civility to that which you describe? Boggles the mind.
 
But they feel the same way about you. I assume you're an American. Freedom of religion is one of the Constitutional rights that every American has, no matter how much you don't like it. (And you'd better like it because if it were overturned you know it wouldn't be done in such a way as to benefit atheists!) Yes, I know that only applies to government coercion, but it's a good model for all of us. You don't like being cornered by religious evangelists, so unless you simply look down on religious people, have no respect for them, and think they're just dog turds on your lawn, you should treat them with the same minimal civility that you expect to be treated with: live and let live. That is, after all the basis of civilization!

I understand your live and let live argument. In fact I completely agree with it. I don't treat christians any better or worst than any average person, nobody should.

I just have found religion to be very obstructive to some peoples lives. I am liberal minded, when my friend tells me he wont have sex with his girlfriend because hes christian, yet at the same time complains about it... to me it feels as though maybe I should challenge his thoughts. Being the type of guy who hangs around a lot of Christians, I see situations like these happening a lot. And if I feel like I can help out, I like to.

And I stress once again: Even if it's the right thing, you will not be able to "make them let go of it." Choose your battles wisely because you only have a finite amount of energy. If you dissipate it on unachievable goals, your tombstone will read, "Here lies Chris. On the cusp of a Paradigm Shift when people around him were changing the world, he tried real hard but he never achieved anything."So please bear your own experience in mind. Nobody converted you to atheism. It almost never happens that way; it comes from within. Life is full of hard lessons and this is one of yours.The human brain is an amazing organ, isn't it. People have the ability to be rational in some areas and irrational in others. Surely you've observed this phenomenon in arenas other than religion. Politics, morality, drugs, war, race relations...

Religion, the basis of what many people spend their lives by and I believe it is something that should be discussed, its just a healthy thing to discuss as long as people are civil about it. As much as I do agree with you that converting someone is not an easy task, since people chose to be irrational - I don't believe in not trying. After all, I am sure there are plenty of people who let go of religion because they were exposed to atheism and saw it as an option, though their initial thoughts about it were negative.

It's similar to cognitive dissonance, the ability to believe two things that are mutually exclusive and be perfectly serene with it.As I said, you need to let other people do it that way because it seems to be the only way that works. Be a good citizen and a good friend and share your ideas, but stop short of becoming an evangelist. Nobody listens to a pain in the ass and there's no quicker way to become a pain in the ass than to rag on people about their religion.

Agreed.

Very few of the tens of millions of Americans who got caught up in the Religious Redneck Retard Revival in the late 1970s and early 1980s were converted by evangelists. They had epiphanies just like you did. Their epiphanies just happened to take them in the wrong direction.

The percentage of the American population who identify themselves as atheists is growing slowly but steadily, and it's stronger in Europe. Be patient.

The percentage who are not atheists but do not affiliate themselves with any organized religion is even larger; it's up into the double digits in the USA. This is cause for celebration, since it's the organized, Abrahamic, religions that are responsible for virtually all of the religiously-inspired violence and stupidity on this planet. (The Hindu-Buddhist conflict on Sri Lanka is the only exception that comes to mine and my Indian friends are adamant in the admonition that religion actually plays a very small role in that one, if at all.)

You may object to belief in gods and the supernatural on philosophical grounds, but it's specific belief in the god of Abraham and his various looney prophets that leads people into periodic frenzies of war and genocide. It's monotheism, the pathetic one-dimensional model of the rich human spirit, that suppresses a huge portion of their identity into what Jung calls their Shadow, so it festers and explodes at depressingly regular intervals.

If you truly believe that then why not try to convert others?

I mean, you just told me how much you recognize its destructiveness, yet at the same time you believe atheism should come from within - if people are not exposed to other ideas many times its impossible for them to convert. You gotta show them the door if they want to find their way out, don't you think?

After all, for all we know this percentage rise of atheist might have just come from exactly that, people choosing to listen to non-religious ideas.
 
If you truly believe that then why not try to convert others?

For all you know the ones who go on destructive sprees could be frustrated atheists and by converting even more of them you would destroy the society around you.
 
I am an atheist, who is surrounded by religious people in my everyday life.

Should I be neutral about it? Or should I challenge their beliefs?

Neutrality. There's no reason to "convert" others; it's rude and childish. What they believe is none of their business, and vice versa.
 
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