But in order for this argument to make sense, we first have to accept your baseless preconception that divinity is required to discern divinity in others. Weren't you just complaining about arguments that require such silly preconceptions?
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But in order for this argument to make sense, we first have to accept your baseless preconception that divinity is required to discern divinity in others. Weren't you just complaining about arguments that require such silly preconceptions?
I don't think that's the question you're actually trying to ask me, because it is irrelevant to the topic. But so I'm not accused of ducking the question: I am a layman, and can easily discern the difference between experts and non-experts in any field. Are you really saying you can't tell the difference between Laurence Krauss and William Lane Craig on matters of physics?
Anyway, being divine is not the same as being an expert on the divine. You are claiming that one must be divine themselves in order to glean the divinity of someone or something else. What is the basis for believing this requirement to be true? And if this were true, how would you know? By your logic, you yourself would have to be divine to know that there is even a divine realm to know.
Your rebuttal reminds me of that one question that you never really answered. " Why does the universe and why does life need to have a objective meaning?"
It doesn't help ME sleep at night but i would imagine that a child with cancer is thankful for the research that was pioneered by Marie Curie, that is keeping him or her alive. Why do you get up in the morning? I get up objectivly becasue my heart is still pumping blood, my lungs inhale and exhale and my brain is still directing and controling my core functions. What motivates people can be better explained with is video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLKnTppulNLhBOD3rkM8ywbQ
Excellent post, but there is still more you could have said. For example, there are many who find the realm of the atom beautiful and inspiring. It is the intellectual and creative failing of people like Wynn who cannot see how the details of the reality of our existence are far more beautiful than anything faith has to offer.
Beauty can exist in what is perceived by others as mundane or diaphanous, yet it those elements or parts of life that are the building blocks of all the other beautiful and cherished items. If a thousand Mona Lisas were created the value of each one would be less and less. I have yet to fully live my life but I’m grateful to my parents for giving me the one chance to experience it.
“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
― Charles Bukowski
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
― Douglas Adams,
“There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.”
― Richard Dawkins,
“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
― Charles Bukowski
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
― Douglas Adams,
“There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.”
― Richard Dawkins,
I guess in the absence of hot pizza, even cold pizza sounds good
:shrug:
That is a pretty sweeping claim that would require you supporting, with citations, to be taken the least bit seriously. As it stands, this is only an unfounded proclamation. And if these two terms are synonymous (as you would have us believe), then why bother rebutting that I pointed out that exact same thing at all? You should be aware that there is a definitive distinction, and if you wish to communicate well with others, you should accept that. I can only assume that you are equivocating, perhaps with the intent to be inflammatory.
No, you simply do not have much of a grasp on what generally constitutes religion, which handily explains your confusion in find commonalities. And I have told you before that I have no religion. It is a blatant and obvious straw man and ad hominem, at least how, no doubt, you intend it. These tactics have never helped you in the past, so I have no idea why you insist on trotting them out yet again.
And way to completely avoid addressing my point about religion (your supposed synonym theology) not being inherently fatalistic. Instead you offer up a non sequitur about the value of life to an atheist, when I have not come even remotely close to addressing that in any way. Nor have I brought up anything to do with an afterlife, nor any supposed value it would or would not impart to anything else.
Yes, your (apparently intentional) attentional bias does put you at a disadvantage. One wonders why you feel you need to engage someone at all that you keep claiming you are ignoring. If you wish to hide responses to me buried in posts to others then you cannot complain about anyone not responding to them in the proper context. They were not posted in the proper context. Take some responsibility already.
Straw man, basically consisting of "if they ain't fer us they be agin us". You are the only one who insists that anyone with any tolerance for religion be some devout believer. That is called a false dilemma, or black and white thinking. Adults tend to be beyond that sort of thing.
I mean from the Greek, Roman, and other ancient gods who displayed every aspect of the foibles of man, the Hebrew who displayed wrath and jealousy, to the gods/ideals such as the Christian god and the Buddha. Pantheons which depict every foible of man would, of course, include the capacity for benevolence. Your naive straw men only illustrate your false dilemma bias.
So asking you to explain your admitted inability to see the commonalities in things called by the same term is somehow an ad hominem?
Then what is this "one trait"? If you can manage to see any commonality, then obvious that is the only place to start. Baby steps.
Naive nonsense. Maybe you should read up on animism before embarrassing yourself further. Native Americans did not tend to think in terms of separations between the spirits of man, animals, or even the land itself. Thus their idealizations naturally included traits of any of these.
You know, you sure like to opine on a subject, religion, that you obviously know very little about.
And no substantiation of that claim, even though you often require it of the counterclaim. That is called hypocracy.
Funny you should mention GIA, as that is the only other person around who routinely avoids addressing points made and storms off in a snit when they realize they cannot.
So just call me a troll and once again claim you will be ignoring me. That is your usual way out of any jam you find yourself in.
Erroneous example. A man's doubt may very well destroy a relationship, but that does not make it a strong argument, as his doubts could be completely unfounded and the relationship lost for no reason. The harmful effects of incredulity do not validate it, nor make it any less fallacious an argument.
Many aspects of science are accepted to be approximations, even though we do not possess that which we accept these are approximations to.
Well, surely you are faimilar with the idea that contentment with one's material situation, whatever it is (even if it is cold pizza), is a very important factor in developing the proper basis for spiritual practice.
Let's see there are five pages, most of which involve me and Wynn debating the existence of the gods on the aforementioned list. But what defines a real thread for you Mr. Shadow1?
The list like any other OP that starts a thread would incite reactions, reactions in the forms of post. We are now in the bottom of those reactions. Pg 5.
Relationships are build on trust, a measure of goodwill that a person is willing to invest even as the first party to do so, ie. when there is yet no reason to believe the goodwill will pay off.
In terms of an interpersonal relationsip, incredulity is a character flaw that can importantly affect the course of the relationship. Which is why in terms of interpersonal relationships, incredulity is a strong argument (" ").
As noted earlier, incredulity plays a different roles in things such as knowing whether there is a table in the next room, in comparison to things such as interpersonal relationships.
I guess that as long as one's health and wealth are relatively intact, one can go peacefully go along with "There is no objective meaning of life."
But wait until aging, illness and death start doing their thing!
There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (provided you'll have some left, that is)!
kx000
Valued Senior Member
I am not to command Love, he commands me. Faith is the son of Love, how can you say no to either? Love is a commander, so is Faith. We are wired to Love, and Believe.
The fairies have been sitting in the garden the entire time. We are the gods.
We are meant to Love.
You are still trying to assert that incredulity is valid (a strong argument) because it is a bad reason to believe something. Bad reasoning is the opposite of a strong argument. But you seem to be on your own hamster wheel on that one. Good luck.
:wallbang: :facepalm: :wallbang: :facepalm:
Sigh....If only I could properly facilitate my response in both verbal and facial manifestations to that post without reprisal from the forums rules and guidelines or of being ostracized by the other theists that patrol these forums…. Ah Fuck it. Kx000…I’ll try to put this in “friendly” terms. I view your philosophy that you responded with to the quotes I presented with to be as intelligent as three men starting a salmon farm on a golf course with all the salmon still alive on the grass that are sprayed with water from the sprinkler systems and then “smoked” by putting cigars or cigarettes in the salmon’s mouths. For all those reading this who believe that I’m being an ass or to harsh on Kx000…Bite me… and if I’ve ever offended any of you I want you to know from the bottom of my heart that I truly, truly don’t give shit. Moderator! If you are reading this do whatever you want to me!
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