Sex is Dirty

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Sex is Dirty

Should we not try for some consistency in our blah blah blah
But Sex is either beautiful or its not. Wonderful or its not.
blah blah blah

In critical thinking your case fits right under the "false dilemma" category, which is a "mistake in an argument".

For reference on the common mistakes made in arguments see this link

 

[Leo Volont]

In critical thinking your case fits right under the "false dilemma" category, which is a "mistake in an argument".

For reference on the common mistakes made in arguments see this link

So, we find that the only thing you know about sex is the logical end of it.

Your mother must be so proud.

 

[Avatar]

So, we find that the only thing you know about sex is the logical end of it.

Your mother must be so proud.

In critical thinking your reply fits right under the "ad hominem" category, which is a "mistake in an argument" (a bad form of an argument).

For reference on the common mistakes made in arguments see this link

 

[Leo Volont]

but 99.9% of us do not want to be carrying babies around for the rest of our lives, get a life leo, and please, I urge you stop babbling on this forum .

You accuse me of prattling. But what of your "99.9%" assertion -- that 99.9% are perfectly reasonable about their urge to maturnity. Really, I wish it were so. It is true that in advanced techno-societies women have decided, for the most part, to have fewer children then they had typically had before; HOWEVER, it is much like a man who needs to have sex, and having had sex, comes to his senses... puts on his pants and leaves -- Women still do insist on having SOME children. It is a biological urge to them... they NEED to have a squealing infant before they come to their senses.

And on a planet which is being strangled for resources to support a Population already approximately 8 Billion... which a hundred Tsunami's could not put a significant dent in, we could use MORE and not less Religious Incentive to turn away not only from Sexuality, but also from the urge to actual Paternity... or I should say Maturnity (no matter what men are intimidating into saying to their wives, every man could easily and happly get by if he never saw an infant.)

 

[Leo Volont]

I have never seen a more absurd dualism.

It's either good or bad?

One man's meat is another man's poison, you "delusional pratt"

Well, that is the way it is treated, isn't it.

Couples get married in church to consecrate 'good' sex.

whores and pedophiles go to jail to punish 'bad sex'.

I hear in Scandanavia people are largely indifferent to valuing sex one way or another, but, then again, they have the world's highest suicide rate.

 

[Avatar]

In quite a few countries prostitution is legal.
And it's not about sex, but about the other person's will.

 

[Leo Volont]

I think that the rapes of kids by these sob's have been going on for centuries, it's only recent that these crimes against parisherners have come to light, and the reason that they have gone for so long unoticed is because of fear. Who would believe a child, complaining some preacher touched him/her in the early century? the fear of authoraty that these preachers convey upon the child would suppress the little victims to ever utter a word, for fear of braking the bond of secrecy and sent to hell, told to them by the authorative preacher, pastor, rabbi, etc. Not only catholic preasts have been known to molest kids.

Godless.

No. If you look at statistics, there is less of an incidence for Pedophilia among Catholic Priests then there is for the general population, which indicates that the church was actually successful at screening them out.

Why we hear so much of Pedophilia in the Church's was because the Church had "Deep Pockets". Your ordinary pedophile has no great wealth or property and so he is quietly sent to jail. But The Catholic church is rich, or at least has schools and hospitals that can be sold off to pay off lawsuits.

Then there is the scandal factor. 10 Scout Leaders boiging children at protestant sponsored scout troupes doesn't make the newspapers because that is what we have grown to expect from Protestants. It is ONLY a scandal when sin is committed by a Catholic.

 

[Leo Volont]

And it's not about sex, but about the other person's will.

could you please expand on this. It sounds like it would make a nice little essay, and I'd write it myself, only I really can't quite intuit what you mean.

 

[Avatar]

It's about whether the other person agrees with the sexual intercourse (free will) and if he or she is mature or sane enough to understand the possible consequences (medical and psychical).

 

[Leo Volont]

Of course sex is not good or bad -- it just is. I see it mostly as a function; it is an incentive. Believe me, I've experienced sexuality for the oddest reasons until it dawned on me that I was urging myself to action when another part of me was too lazy or repressed or blind.

Sex is not what populates civilization! Sex is the carrot dangling at the end of the stick -- it is an incentive.

Of course heterosexuals would wish to monopolize the sexual act all for themselves. Why? Because they are a bunch of greedy fascists and want the carrot all to themselves. (Spoiled little perverts. Heterosexual sexual acts? They too know a good thing when they see it!) Therefore, as with everything else that people wish to conquer, keep, protect, they erect morals.

Hence they coerce the sexual act through a moralistic mesh: their mesh!

Trouble though is that "modern" civilization is freshly exiting (or attempting to exit) the middle ages, and all of its paranoiac agendas. Courtesy of the Christian Church. (Look at the Muslim world, or a Communist system and their morals -- crude by our standards? Or simply the same damn thing: control.)

But "freaks" have come along -- harbingers, avant-gardists, geniuses, anarchists, hippies, sex pistols, faggots, abductees, etc, -- only to disrupt those boring values, to challenge them -- to reinvent them.

And part of that reinvention is certainly not dependant or based upon a collective's decaying morals, but rather upon an individual's insight. (Why else does the church/governments forbid true free will? Control.)

Not control for a populations' numbers or welfare, but for its consumerism: the greater the merrier; greater the control, greater the head trip. (Hence probably greater the orgasm! -- why other reason to "protect" their "positions". Lol.)

But "nonproductive" members of society are labeled... immoral.

Pedophilia, as is evident, has its place in the human psyche -- but how can it be controlled? Not by repression, but by decipherment. And that's something I doubt this forum is ready to do -- because it is too "productive".

My big problem with Sexuality is that it convinces people that they are merely animals. Spirituality means nothing to people who are fixated on sexuality.

My first Spiritual Vision had me meet the Goddess Mother halfway up a tiered and very steep mountain... almost like a grown over pyramid, but the steepest pyramid ever built. Anyway, She told me "Only those at the bottom cannot go to the top". To take the spiritual path, one needs to abandon Sex as the supreme motivator.

 

[Avatar]

My big problem with Sexuality is that it convinces people that they are merely animals.

Oh, but we are. Homo sapiens sapiens (sneers @ sapiens). We are primates.
Any person who has studied basic biology (or lived in a farm) knows that.

Spirituality means nothing to people who are fixated on sexuality.

In critical thinking your sentence fits right under the "hasty generalisation" category, which is a "mistake in an argument" (a bad form of an argument).

For reference on the common mistakes made in arguments see this link

 

[TheMatrixIsReal]

M*W: And what word would that be, Leo -- FUCK? I'd like to see the comparable word in "almost every language" you claim. Again, your ignorance abounds. The word "fuck" is an acronym for the phrase 'For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge'. It was an English acronym put on stockades when people had premarital or extramarital sex. The acronym also applied to married couples who had sexual relations that ended in pregnancy. Married couples were supposed to apply for permission of the King if they wanted to have a child. Is that clear, Leo? Is there any part of this you don't understand?

Yeah the part where everything you said isn't true Sorry to bag on you mw but I have to point out the facts:

[Fuck] is a very old word, recorded in English since the 15th century (few acronyms predate the 20th century), with cognates in other Germanic languages. The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang (Random House, 1994, ISBN 0-394-54427-7) cites Middle Dutch fokken = "to thrust, copulate with"; Norwegian dialect fukka = "to copulate"; and Swedish dialect focka = "to strike, push, copulate" and fock = "penis". Although German ficken may enter the picture somehow, it is problematic in having e-grade, or umlaut, where all the others have o-grade or zero-grade of the vowel.

Read more about it here.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Leo Volont: "Most natural and most powerful". Really? Go without food and sex for three days and see if you won't want a sandwiche before getting laid.

Hunger is the most powerful urge, and the most natural, if by that you mean understandable.
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M*W: The most powerful human need is for air to breathe.
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Leo: Sex, on the otherhand (no pun intended), is not ultimately that understandable. yes, people justify it by saying that we need sex in order to reproduce the species... but look around! There is no shortage of people. In fact, human beings simply reproduce too well when placed within the securities and plenties of Civilization. In order not to reproduce at dysfunctional and damaging rates, there MUST be some Civilized inhabitions to sex.
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M*W: Leo, it is you who does not understand sex. It's not the entire human race as you would hope to believe. There are plenty of laws regarding aberant sexual behavior. Inhibitions to sex? Why should there be inhibitions to sex? Having inhibitions about sex is abnormal.
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Leo: And not just the sex act. I must not be the only man to have ever noticed that women fantacize as much about having children as they do about participating in the sex act. Women have an actual urge to have babies. Little girls caring for dolls are playing out that fantasy. Anyway, for this Urge not to overwhelm Civilization with more than enough resultant actual babies, all screaming to be provided for, then Civilization must offset it with the Urge to Purity and the Public Honoring of Virginity. Women need to offset their urge for maturnity with that desire to be honored for their purity.
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M*W: It is your church that encourages sexual relations without contraception. It is your church that decries abortion. It is your church that has gotten into bed with every Catholic couple on this planet to encourage them to conceive regularly. And, now you are blaming the population on the failures of civilization!
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Leo: And I have heard that Scandanavians have learned to deal with their population pressures by greatly increasing their rate for suicide. How happy could they be?
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M*W: Now you're blaming the Scandanavians for having too much uninhibited sex! Face it, Leo, the suicide rate is due to their long, harsh winters warmed with wodka; hence, the population growth.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Leo Volont: My big problem with Sexuality is that it convinces people that they are merely animals. Spirituality means nothing to people who are fixated on sexuality.
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M*W: Spirituality emanates from one's innermost soul, and that is from where one's sexuality comes as well. The greatest art and architecture emanates from the sexual and spiritual core. If sex was truly dirty as you believe, then why do we have the Mona Lisa, The Last Supper, The Thinker, the La Pieta, David and Moses, to name a few? Do you really believe these works of art came out of the artist's logical mind? They are creations from the artist's libido.
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Leo: My first Spiritual Vision had me meet the Goddess Mother halfway up a tiered and very steep mountain... almost like a grown over pyramid, but the steepest pyramid ever built. Anyway, She told me "Only those at the bottom cannot go to the top". To take the spiritual path, one needs to abandon Sex as the supreme motivator.
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M*W: Sex is not the extreme motivator of humanity -- the desire to breathe is, then to drink water, then to eat food, and then to procreate -- in that order. Read-up on Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Animals have sex purely for procreation based on the estrus cycle, otherwise, they're not interested. Humans have sex for procreation, too, but humans have the innate ability to have spiritual sex, just like Jesus and MM did. Sex is spiritually healing. It is a wonderful gift. Too bad you weren't in line when all your angels and saints were bestowing human sexuality.

 

[Yorda]

Leo, what is it that is dirty about sex?

M*W, what do you mean with spiritual sex?

 

[cole grey]

LEO's assertion is so far out, it must just be practice in argumentation for LEO. I applaud LEO for being adventurous enough to fish, and catch, with such awkward bait.

I think they made a blind smiley face for use in this discussion

 

[Leo Volont]

LEO's assertion is so far out, it must just be practice in argumentation for LEO. I applaud LEO for being adventurous enough to fish, and catch, with such awkward bait.

I think they made a blind smiley face for use in this discussion

I wish you would have fleshed out your comment a bit more ... I've already asserted so much that I have no clue as to which particular assertion you are now refering to.

 

[Leo Volont]

Leo, what is it that is dirty about sex?

To put my argument in short, we know that 'sex is dirty' because in so many instances it is criminalized and the cause for scandal. Then I expanded my argument to include the notion that Humanity cannot both look upward and down at the same time... that focus must either be on sexuality or Spirituality. When making comparisons, sex is dirty when held in contrast to Spirituality.

 

[Leo Volont]

.
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M*W: Spirituality emanates from one's innermost soul, and that is from where one's sexuality comes as well. The greatest art and architecture emanates from the sexual and spiritual core. If sex was truly dirty as you believe, then why do we have the Mona Lisa, The Last Supper, The Thinker, the La Pieta, David and Moses, to name a few? Do you really believe these works of art came out of the artist's logical mind? They are creations from the artist's libido.
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The Sublimated Libido is Sex after Transcendence. Yes, of course that is better than raw animal sex. Indeed, it is exactly the type of thing I encourage. You recall the content of my first major Spiritual Vision in which the Mother Goddess told me "only those at the bottom cannot go to the Top". Well, exactly! What you are talking about -- taking the Energy of Sex up a notch into the higher realms of Creativity is to remove it from scum and drippings of the bottom.

 

[Jolly Rodger]

Masturbating isn’t dirty