Sex is Dirty

[Leo Volont]

Sex is Dirty

Should we not try for some consistency in our thoughts. But we rarely see any consistency when we speak of sex. From the same people we must hear half the time that sex is wonderful, beautiful, and oh so fulfilling… that is them considering their own sexual experiences. But then, the other half of the time, we have to hear about sex as a criminal perversion – that is the sex acts of homosexuals, pedophiles, rapers, etc.

But Sex is either beautiful or its not. Wonderful or its not. But that is not what we hear. Especially regarding Pedophilia. When have we ever heard that we should be counseling the victims that sex is beautiful and that they should be proud and happy that they are getting theirs early. We are so worried that the victims of pedophilia will be forever damaged with guilt and shame. Well, that hadn’t been a problem for them before they were caught and exposed, was it? What guilt? What shame? Where they not as carefree as little monkeys? Indeed, the little tikes were quite okay with it before they were given the mixed message that sex is beautiful everywhere else except when it is with them when it all at once becomes a criminal perversion. We tell them as we put their sex partner in prison, that it is nothing for they themselves to be ashamed of. We send them to Psychiatrists so they won’t be damaged for like and ashamed of what they obviously were not ashamed of before Society caught them at it. Huh? It’s the mixed messages that screw them up.

The same argument applies to all criminalized sex. If it is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it so severely criminalized in some instances.

Also, if sex is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it that in almost every language the same word is used to convey the meaning of ‘ultimate humiliation’ as is used for referring to the sex act. What do enemies jeer at each other but insults couched in colloquial sexual terms. That is what men REALLY think about the sex act.

And when women protect their children from being sexually exploited, then THAT is what they really think about sex.

When any of us can get past the physical urge and appetite for sex, and examine what we really think about it, with our heads and not with our genitalia, we must admit to ourselves that, yes, sex is dirty. When our personal justifications for it are folded back in the least, we find sex disgusting and humiliating.

 

[§outh§tar]

But Sex is either beautiful or its not. Wonderful or its not.

What an idiot[ic]..

 

[duendy]

Sex is Dirty

Should we not try for some consistency in our thoughts. But we rarely see any consistency when we speak of sex. From the same people we must hear half the time that sex is wonderful, beautiful, and oh so fulfilling… that is them considering their own sexual experiences.

d)) well if it IS fulfilling for them, then it IS

But then, the other half of the time, we have to hear about sex as a criminal perversion – that is the sex acts of homosexuals, pedophiles, rapers, etc.

d))hmmmm, careful here. not sure what your implying, or being blatant about. i.m queer, yet i am not a pedphile nor a rapist. NOR a criminal

But Sex is either beautiful or its not. Wonderful or its not. But that is not what we hear. Especially regarding Pedophilia. When have we ever heard that we should be counseling the victims that sex is beautiful and that they should be proud and happy that they are getting theirs early. We are so worried that the victims of pedophilia will be forever damaged with guilt and shame. Well, that hadn’t been a problem for them before they were caught and exposed, was it? What guilt? What shame? Where they not as carefree as little monkeys? Indeed, the little tikes were quite okay with it before they were given the mixed message that sex is beautiful everywhere else except when it is with them when it all at once becomes a criminal perversion. We tell them as we put their sex partner in prison, that it is nothing for they themselves to be ashamed of. We send them to Psychiatrists so they won’t be damaged for like and ashamed of what they obviously were not ashamed of before Society caught them at it. Huh? It’s the mixed messages that screw them up.

d)) it is culturally specific is what it is. for example ....rape. rape is vile. the person beit young or adult is in a psoition of being disempowerd by a criminal who forces them for sex. the actual experience must be horrendous. for sexuality is SO personal and yet here you are being abused in such an awaful manner whicle the other gets their evil orgaasm leaving you hurt and traumatized, and possibly affecting your sexual and emotional being for LIFE
If a child has though been touched in a sexual way which Is abuse but not the kind that is visciously hurtful, then what comes after is culturally specific in how it will excacerabte feelings of shame and disgust. If the adults that find out make such a fuss so as to shame the child than that reaftion is what will make the child feel even worse
For example, a tribal custom is for young boys to suck-off the tribal elders. The cultural belief is that be doing so--swallwing the come of the older male gives the young one courage etc. So in that cultural context there'sd be no shame put on the child. That's what i mean

The same argument applies to all criminalized sex. If it is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it so severely criminalized in some instances.

d))bcause noone is SAYING it is all so wonderful and beautiful?
Look. in the case of children. children are erotic creatures. we ALl are Leo. you TOO were conceived in a lusty embrace....a fuking, a rutting, makin love call it what you will.
Some adults who are pedophiles will USE the natrual erotic curiousity of children and groom it, encourage it. The adult is wrong to do that. the adult should know better than to do that. the child is a child. so the adult must bear the brunt of any punishment if the culture forbids erotica between adults and children.
But as you know pedophilia is meaning beFORE pubescence. In other cultures and including ancinet Greece, there has been acceptance of post-pubescent children being allowed sex with adults. some men were allowed to marry 13-14 year old gorls in some States in the USA some time back, so again where it's be criminal in some cultures or times. not others.
Being homosexual was a crime in in the middle of last centrury, ANd was classed as being a mental illness. it isn't now. so do you see that a lot of the judgemnt regarding this is culturally-specific?

Also, if sex is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it that in almost every language the same word is used to convey the meaning of ‘ultimate humiliation’ as is used for referring to the sex act. What do enemies jeer at each other but insults couched in colloquial sexual terms. That is what men REALLY think about the sex act.

d))this is in BIG part due to the church you seem to love and do a lot orpormoting for, Leo, the Christian church who believe sex is dirty. UNLESS according to their specifications which really are extremely narrow and errr anal retentative par excellANCE!

And when women protect their children from being sexually exploited, then THAT is what they really think about sex.

d))No, that is what they think abouth eir children who they dont want exploited. some of them may have wild sexual lives as adults, no?

When any of us can get past the physical urge and appetite for sex, and examine what we really think about it, with our heads and not with our genitalia, we must admit to ourselves that, yes, sex is dirty.

d)) maybe that is just people like yourself, Leo, who are indoctrinated up the eyeballs in Christian anti- 'dirtysex' dogma.

When our personal justifications for it are folded back in the least, we find sex disgusting and humiliating.

LEO, this thread has revealed to me--at least--the real juice-sapping danger christian indocrination has on its devotees

Amd we KNOW about priests etc, who take up the inhuman vows of the church....we know that this lie of sex being dirty REALLY works in the wrong way its supposed. creating a FETISH about the ost natural and most POWERFUL urge we have!

 

[cole grey]

Sex is Dirty

...When our personal justifications for it are folded back in the least, we find sex disgusting and humiliating.

Sometimes, it's better to take a shower first.

Also, I have experienced sex that was everything but humiliating (for both parties).

 

[fadeaway humper]

Is sex dirty? Only if it's done right. (Woody Allen)

 

[path]

LEO, this thread has revealed to me--at least--the real juice-sapping danger christian indocrination has on its devotees

Amd we KNOW about priests etc, who take up the inhuman vows of the church....we know that this lie of sex being dirty REALLY works in the wrong way its supposed. creating a FETISH about the ost natural and most POWERFUL urge we have!

It is precisely that nature and power that religion tries to harness and control. I believe sexual perversion most often springs from that very attempt to make sex dirty or make the human body shameful. I am speaking from experience having grown up in an american catholic school enviornment and now having moved to scandinavia. The differences are plain to see.

 

[Ophiolite]

Is sex dirty? Only if it's done right. (Woody Allen)

I was expecting this on the seventh post. You jumped the gun.

 

[Leo Volont]

we know that this lie of sex being dirty REALLY works in the wrong way its supposed. creating a FETISH about the most natural and most POWERFUL urge we have!

"Most natural and most powerful". Really? Go without food and sex for three days and see if you won't want a sandwiche before getting laid.

Hunger is the most powerful urge, and the most natural, if by that you mean understandable.

Sex, on the otherhand (no pun intended), is not ultimately that understandable. yes, people justify it by saying that we need sex in order to reproduce the species... but look around! There is no shortage of people. In fact, human beings simply reproduce too well when placed within the securities and plenties of Civilization. In order not to reproduce at dysfunctional and damaging rates, there MUST be some Civilized inhabitions to sex.

And not just the sex act. I must not be the only man to have ever noticed that women fantacize as much about having children as they do about participating in the sex act. Women have an actual urge to have babies. Little girls caring for dolls are playing out that fantasy. Anyway, for this Urge not to overwhelm Civilization with more than enough resultant actual babies, all screaming to be provided for, then Civilization must offset it with the Urge to Purity and the Public Honoring of Virginity. Women need to offset their urge for maturnity with that desire to be honored for their purity.

And I have heard that Scandanavians have learned to deal with their population pressures by greatly increasing their rate for suicide. How happy could they be?

 

[cole grey]

I've got two words for you Leo-

birth control

 

[Leo Volont]

I find myself replying to my own thread.

You can find me always praising Civilization and condemning Barbarism, but have more than once wondered that men are not somewhat civilized by all the bowing and scraping and begging they must engage in to get sex. I must wonder which man is more dangerous to society: the man who by shunning sex has no leverage upon him, or the man who has been domesticated by his urge to have sex ever available to him?

In this, I may be something of a personal hypocrite. In principle I would favor anything that would Civilize men, while personally I cringe when I see a man so submissive to his wife that he is little different from a woman himself. Not that I don't value women, but I do recognize a difference. Women are creatures of home and hearth. They are the Village and the Valley. The Men are the Hunters, the Explorers, the Beast Masters... the Non-Women.

Honestly, Civilization needs very few men. Women could do just fine by themselves... what? they would have to take the trash out themselves and learn to fix their own automobiles, but, besides that, men only cause more trouble than they are worth. Most of the time Civilization only needs men in order to defend against Barbarian Invasions, that is, a bunch of other men. If it were not for the Threat of Danger from External Men, a civilization would not need Internal Men.

But the Men of Civilization often become too domesticated and effeminatized to be most useful. So used to the comforts of home, and the soft delicacies that appeal to the feminine tastes of their wives and girlfriends, that they lose the toughness to stave off the aggressions of real men, when they scale the walls. But if men retain their toughness and independence, then they are often the cause of trouble themselves. If the World could ever entirely eliminate the threat of external invading Barbarian Hordes, then men, in general, would become about as useful as an Army without an Enemy -- only bleeding off resources to fight amongst itself.

Even acknowledging all of that, I still uphold the notion of Masculine Dignity that sneers at the domestications and the subtle dominance of Women which they exercise through men's surrendering to the siren song of the urge for sex. To me the most glorious creature on Earth is the Confirmed Bachelor, even though I acknowledge somewhat that he is most likely rather the Barbarian.

 

[Leo Volont]

I've got two words for you Leo-

birth control

Go back and read what I wrote.

Women don't care about birth control. Women WANT to have babies. To women the urge to Maturnity is perhaps as strong or even stronger than just the urge to have sex. You don't see boys playing with infant dolls, do you? But girls are absolutely fantasizing over having their own babies.

Why do you think so many married couples have children. It ISN'T because men want to have screamin, cryin little rugrats underfoot that will eat up the paychecks and keep you from ever again being carefree to have fun. All that comes from women. Men go along with it because they are intimidated into it ... "You DO want children, don't you?" and what is any poor schmuck supposed to say?

In the face of that, Birth control is meaningless.

 

[mustafhakofi]

your a delusional pratt leo, and have been since you came on this forum, the world does not exist, only for you.
the world does not revolve just for you only.
sometime there is the essence of intelligence in your words, but mostly your in dreamland, as I said some months ago, I cant take anything you say seriously.
but it is so irritating.
and this latest effort takes the cake.
is it your petty insecuritys and your immaturity, that bring you to say such stupid things.
maybe indoctrinated southern baptist religious type pea brained women may not want birth control , but 99.9% of us do not want to be carrying babies around for the rest of our lives, get a life leo, and please, I urge you stop babbling on this forum .

 

[§outh§tar]

I have never seen a more absurd dualism.

It's either good or bad?

One man's meat is another man's poison, you "delusional pratt"

 

[Godless]

Should we not try for some consistency in our thoughts. But we rarely see any consistency when we speak of sex. From the same people we must hear half the time that sex is wonderful, beautiful, and oh so fulfilling… that is them considering their own sexual experiences. But then, the other half of the time, we have to hear about sex as a criminal perversion – that is the sex acts of homosexuals, pedophiles, rapers, etc.

Sex is not dirty Leo, it is only the perception of what a religious society has overwhelming been teaching for thousands of years. They instill "guilt" of an act that is natural, not only for self gratification, but also of showing devotion and love in a relationship.

Sexual crimes are another matter however, it is not that sex is dirty because crimes of this nature. The perversion of some individuals to cross the bounds of trust, i.e. pedophelia. This individual the pedophile has not only violated a child's body, but has also broken the trust between a child and adult. Usually these acts happened within known people by the child, such as parents, family, or has we been finding out lately "preachers". Unfortunately most pedophile acts are commited by close relationships, thus the trust that a child has on adults as parental figures for quidance is violated by a neurotic person with personal psychological or physiological problems. Because of the nature of sex, the act it'self is used to instill guilt on the child, shame for the enjoyment of participating if that was the case, or if the victim might have been forced, instead of cohersed, there's a difference; the perpetrator of the act is culpable, for any act performed do to the inosence of the child. Pressures of quilt, and shame, should not be instilled upon the child, and proffesional psychological counsiling would be required to both parent & child victims of these acts. Unfortuanatelly this does not happen often, and the child victim, has a posibility to grow with the neurosis of the act, and may as an adult perform the same sexual crime as an adult. Not always, though it depends if the person seeks psychological cousiling after the memory of such an act or how they have been brought up after the crime. Most adult victims of child molestation claim mental blockage as if though the crime never happened, the brain suppresses the memory.

Homosexuality, perse is not an act of perversion between two consenting adults, the reason why YOU see it as a perversion is again what the religiousity Judeo-christian based society has tried in vain to portray it as an act against god. However homosexuality has been around since before Jesus, and so has prostitution for that matter.

Rape, the rapist is a psychopath who seeks power over vulnerable victims i.e. women. This neurotical psychopath has perhaps been raped in his child days or has a power trip over women. However very rare there have been acts of rape by women, her trip is yet vague do to the low number of accurence of this act. But generally we could say psychologically that she seeks power over men.

But Sex is either beautiful or its not. Wonderful or its not.

Sex; perse is not either beutiful or wonderfull Leo, these are human terms to an act that is natural to all living species of this planet a requirement of procreation. It is the "value" of sexual pleasure that is beutiful and wonderfull when properly performed.

The same argument applies to all criminalized sex. If it is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it so severely criminalized in some instances.

What "value" can one get from a rapist or a pedophile?. These acts of neurosis, are not psychologically moral of a relationship, with a sexual partner. It is amoral to betray the trust of a child/adult relationship, it's amoral to force someone of an act they do not want to perform. I.E. Florida. Rapist about to perform his act upon a victim, she pleas for the rapist to at least use a condom; which he abliges her request. The court finds the rapist not quilty!. Why? because when she asks the rapist to wear a condom, she is cosenting to have sex, and because he ablidge her request, it is understood she wanted it anyway. (Heard that one on the Radio).

Also, if sex is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it that in almost every language the same word is used to convey the meaning of ‘ultimate humiliation’ as is used for referring to the sex act.

Fuck is a word with many meanings. http://www.atlantaga.com/fuc.htm

Godless.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Leo Volont: Sex is Dirty
*************
M*W: Sex is dirty to you, Leo, because you are a dirty old man who's impotent.
*************
Leo: Should we not try for some consistency in our thoughts. But we rarely see any consistency when we speak of sex. From the same people we must hear half the time that sex is wonderful, beautiful, and oh so fulfilling… that is them considering their own sexual experiences. But then, the other half of the time, we have to hear about sex as a criminal perversion – that is the sex acts of homosexuals, pedophiles, rapers, etc.
*************
M*W: You're asking for "consistency" in our thoughts? You poor, pitiful freak! Why would anyone want to be consistent with you and your delusions about sex? Fulfilling sex and perverted sex are polar opposites. When one is repressed, the other will rear its ugly head. Just like the pedophile Catholic priests, they have had to suppress their natural sexual urges for centuries, and now they have come out in perversions for all the world to see.
*************
Leo: But Sex is either beautiful or its not. Wonderful or its not. But that is not what we hear.
*************
M*W: It's not an either or situation. There are many degrees of sexual gratification that remain within the "normal" area, just as there are many degrees of perverted sex. Part of the "perverted" area can simply be one's own like or dislike of certain sexual acts. That doesn't make them truly perverted or illegal. Some women believe that fellatio is perverted, but it's not illegal or perverted for others. Some men believe cunnilingus is disgusting, but it's not illegal or perverted for others. You are forcing your idea that all sex is dirty, disgusting, perverted and illegal, but you are in a category by yourself. You've put yourself there due to your delusions about sex. I bet when you were a young man you had sexual problems. Sex begins in the mind -- not the genitals.
*************
Leo: Especially regarding Pedophilia. When have we ever heard that we should be counseling the victims that sex is beautiful and that they should be proud and happy that they are getting theirs early.
*************
M*W: Leo, you are one sick fuck still living in the dark ages. You blame the innocent victims for what your beloved church and priests did to them and covered it up? Where was your Blessed Virgin Mary when these children were getting fucked by the pedlophiles of your Roman Catholic Church?
*************
Leo: We are so worried that the victims of pedophilia will be forever damaged with guilt and shame. Well, that hadn’t been a problem for them before they were caught and exposed, was it? What guilt? What shame? Where they not as carefree as little monkeys? Indeed, the little tikes were quite okay with it before they were given the mixed message that sex is beautiful everywhere else except when it is with them when it all at once becomes a criminal perversion. We tell them as we put their sex partner in prison, that it is nothing for they themselves to be ashamed of. We send them to Psychiatrists so they won’t be damaged for like and ashamed of what they obviously were not ashamed of before Society caught them at it. Huh? It’s the mixed messages that screw them up.
*************
M*W: No, Leo, it was not the "mixed messages" those children were given about the beauty of sex, it was those perverted old priests' dicks in the mouths of babes.
*************
Leo: The same argument applies to all criminalized sex. If it is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it so severely criminalized in some instances.
*************
M*W: Criminalized sex goes outside the boundaries of normal sex to perverted sex in society's eyes.
*************
Leo: Also, if sex is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it that in almost every language the same word is used to convey the meaning of ‘ultimate humiliation’ as is used for referring to the sex act.
*************
M*W: And what word would that be, Leo -- FUCK? I'd like to see the comparable word in "almost every language" you claim. Again, your ignorance abounds. The word "fuck" is an acronym for the phrase 'For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge'. It was an English acronym put on stockades when people had premarital or extramarital sex. The acronym also applied to married couples who had sexual relations that ended in pregnancy. Married couples were supposed to apply for permission of the King if they wanted to have a child. Is that clear, Leo? Is there any part of this you don't understand?
*************
Leo: What do enemies jeer at each other but insults couched in colloquial sexual terms. That is what men REALLY think about the sex act.
*************
M*W: Leo, you need to go and read some evolutionary biology to find out what motivates men's innate desire toward the sex act.
*************
Leo: And when women protect their children from being sexually exploited, then THAT is what they really think about sex.
*************
M*W: You are so off base here it's pathetic. Women protect their children because that's what mothers do. Your logic, or lack thereof, simply shows your delusions. Mother's also protect their children from oncoming cars. Does that mean mothers think driving a car is dirty?
*************
Leo: When any of us can get past the physical urge and appetite for sex, and examine what we really think about it, with our heads and not with our genitalia, we must admit to ourselves that, yes, sex is dirty. When our personal justifications for it are folded back in the least, we find sex disgusting and humiliating.
*************
M*W: Leo, YOU find sex disgusting and humiliating, and NO, none of us are going to be consistent with you regarding your sexual delusions. I believe you may have been molested by your beloved Catholic priests back in your day. Is that why you are obsessed with the BVM -- to protect you from them?

 

[Lori_7]

Leo,

I think that you should take a copy of your post door to door, and let all of the fathers with small children in your neighborhood read it, so you can get their input...you retarded freak.

Love,

Lori

 

[path]

And I have heard that Scandanavians have learned to deal with their population pressures by greatly increasing their rate for suicide. How happy could they be?

Don't have time at the moment to reply properly just wanted to say that the above statement displays a remarkable ignorance for someone of your advanced age leo.

 

[cole grey]

Go back and read what I wrote.

Women don't care about birth control. Women WANT to have babies. To women the urge to Maturnity is perhaps as strong or even stronger than just the urge to have sex. You don't see boys playing with infant dolls, do you? But girls are absolutely fantasizing over having their own babies.

Why do you think so many married couples have children. It ISN'T because men want to have screamin, cryin little rugrats underfoot that will eat up the paychecks and keep you from ever again being carefree to have fun. All that comes from women. Men go along with it because they are intimidated into it ... "You DO want children, don't you?" and what is any poor schmuck supposed to say?

In the face of that, Birth control is meaningless.

First of all, you said men "bow", "scrape," and "beg", to get sex, but I am not turned on by that situation, so I don't participate in those actions. If one person doesn't want to do it, it is probably going to be pretty substandard sex. Maybe that is humiliating. Your proposed mating scenario does not fit the evidence in 2005, LEO.
I have known many women who did not want to have babies, but still wanted to humiliate, and be humiliated by, participating in the foul, and filthy act.
Maybe on some animal level they wanted babies, but their minds were able to say, "not now", for any number of possible reasons, and use birth control.
If you want to attack the underuse of birth control, please point to poverty and a lack of education around the world, then point to the catholic church(who have been against it's use for a long time. I think they have caught up by now, but I culd be wrong.)
A real "man" would stand up for the idea that giving up your way of life to invest it in children should be a mutual choice, You imply that a man kowtowing to the woman's desires is weak. Your evolutionary theory would then be "only the weak survive", sounds like a theory for why the world could be so screwed up right now, if so then you are right, men should insist on using birth control.

 

[Godless]

Just like the pedophile Catholic priests, they have had to suppress their natural sexual urges for centuries, and now they have come out in perversions for all the world to see.

I think that the rapes of kids by these sob's have been going on for centuries, it's only recent that these crimes against parisherners have come to light, and the reason that they have gone for so long unoticed is because of fear. Who would believe a child, complaining some preacher touched him/her in the early century? the fear of authoraty that these preachers convey upon the child would suppress the little victims to ever utter a word, for fear of braking the bond of secrecy and sent to hell, told to them by the authorative preacher, pastor, rabbi, etc. Not only catholic preasts have been known to molest kids.

Godless.

 

[an>roid.v2]

Leo Volont: Sex is Dirty

Should we not try for some consistency in our thoughts. But we rarely see any consistency when we speak of sex.

From the same people we must hear half the time that sex is wonderful, beautiful, and oh so fulfilling… that is them considering their own sexual experiences.

But then, the other half of the time, we have to hear about sex as a criminal perversion – that is the sex acts of homosexuals, pedophiles, rapers, etc.

Of course sex is not good or bad -- it just is. I see it mostly as a function; it is an incentive. Believe me, I've experienced sexuality for the oddest reasons until it dawned on me that I was urging myself to action when another part of me was too lazy or repressed or blind.

Sex is not what populates civilization! Sex is the carrot dangling at the end of the stick -- it is an incentive.

Of course heterosexuals would wish to monopolize the sexual act all for themselves. Why? Because they are a bunch of greedy fascists and want the carrot all to themselves. (Spoiled little perverts. Heterosexual sexual acts? They too know a good thing when they see it!) Therefore, as with everything else that people wish to conquer, keep, protect, they erect morals.

Hence they coerce the sexual act through a moralistic mesh: their mesh!

Trouble though is that "modern" civilization is freshly exiting (or attempting to exit) the middle ages, and all of its paranoiac agendas. Courtesy of the Christian Church. (Look at the Muslim world, or a Communist system and their morals -- crude by our standards? Or simply the same damn thing: control.)

But "freaks" have come along -- harbingers, avant-gardists, geniuses, anarchists, hippies, sex pistols, faggots, abductees, etc, -- only to disrupt those boring values, to challenge them -- to reinvent them.

And part of that reinvention is certainly not dependant or based upon a collective's decaying morals, but rather upon an individual's insight. (Why else does the church/governments forbid true free will? Control.)

Not control for a populations' numbers or welfare, but for its consumerism: the greater the merrier; greater the control, greater the head trip. (Hence probably greater the orgasm! -- why other reason to "protect" their "positions". Lol.)

But "nonproductive" members of society are labeled... immoral.

Pedophilia, as is evident, has its place in the human psyche -- but how can it be controlled? Not by repression, but by decipherment. And that's something I doubt this forum is ready to do -- because it is too "productive".