Self centred Christianity

[jayleew]

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
For the trillionth time, atheism is NOT a belief system.

Atheism is NOT a belief. It is the absence of belief. ”

This is by definition NOT true.

Join the discussion here:

http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=91718

Atheism + cause = belief/argument

Atheism is the belief/argument that there is no god.


a⋅the⋅ism   /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Dictionary.com

Some atheists argue that their is no position they have, they simply choose not to believe the argument of theists that there is a god, and the burden of proof is on theists. This is true, it does. But, the atheist must also carry a burden of proof that there is no God. The only position that lacks belief is true agnostic, believing that the answer is not obtainable and has no position on the matter. Atheists and theists alike HAVE a cause/position on the debate.

Fess up atheists, let's say it together, "I believe there is no God."

If you ask me to prove it, then I will open my empty hand and show you. I will demonstrate by praying earnestly with no answer. I will show you the contradictions of your scripture. I will show you the history of religion. I will show you the archeological evidence. I will show you biological evidence of evolution, and talk about evolutionary theory. I will show you the evidence of no God, which there is a plethora of.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

no shit, but some people who've spent a lot of time determining the meaning of words have put that forward. what do you have supporting ur opinion? why don't u just reword ur argument anyways, bickering about the meaning of atheist is a waste of time, language is malleable.

Then WHY don't you accept the sensible definition & stop bickering???

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Join the discussion here:
http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=91718


No.

Atheism + cause = belief/argument
Atheism is the belief/argument that there is no god.

Illogical.

a⋅the⋅ism   /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. \
Dictionary.com

I know what it says. It's WRONG.

Some atheists argue that their is no position they have, they simply choose not to believe the argument of theists that there is a god, and the burden of proof is on theists. This is true, it does. But, the atheist must also carry a burden of proof that there is no God. The only position that lacks belief is true agnostic, believing that the answer is not obtainable and has no position on the matter. Atheists and theists alike HAVE a cause/position on the debate.

SOME atheists have a position, some don't. Some atheists are heterosexual, some aren't. Some atheists are omnivores, some aren't.
Being an atheist does not require a position or a belief.
Theism is BELIEVING in god(s). A+THEISM is NOT BELIEVING in god(s).
NOT BELIEVING does not carry a burden of proof.

Fess up atheists, let's say it together, "I believe there is no God."

Childish.

If you ask me to prove it, then I will open my empty hand and show you. I will demonstrate by praying earnestly with no answer. I will show you the contradictions of your scripture. I will show you the history of religion. I will show you the archeological evidence. I will show you biological evidence of evolution, and talk about evolutionary theory. I will show you the evidence of no God, which there is a plethora of.

WHO the HECK are you addressing THAT to???

 

[swarm]

"I believe there is no God."

Good for you. So what? Atheists other than you don't believe like you do.

Scream and shout all you like, they still don't believe like you do and frankly its because they are smarter than you are.

 

[jayleew]

SOME atheists have a position, some don't. Some atheists are heterosexual, some aren't. Some atheists are omnivores, some aren't.
Being an atheist does not require a position or a belief.
Theism is BELIEVING in god(s). A+THEISM is NOT BELIEVING in god(s).
NOT BELIEVING does not carry a burden of proof.

That is not inherently the belief of all atheists. There is a wide spectrum of beliefs, but that is exactly my point.

No, what you are describing is an agnostic, specifically definition #2:

ag⋅nos⋅tic   /ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ag-nos-tik] Show IPA

–noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

That is essentially lack of belief.

Once, you step over that line and say, "No, I BELIEVE that we have enough evidence to saw with all probability that there is no Go." You have just become atheist.

This really is a silly argument you are making, that is the reason I am patronizing you.

The fact of the matter is, why the f*ck you care. Why is it so important that you be labeled atheist? Do you or do you not believe in a god? If you have no belief in a god, if you simply lack belief, then you are agnostic.

If you ask me to prove it, then I will open my empty hand and show you. I will demonstrate by praying earnestly with no answer. I will show you the contradictions of your scripture. I will show you the history of religion. I will show you the archeological evidence. I will show you biological evidence of evolution, and talk about evolutionary theory. I will show you the evidence of no God, which there is a plethora of.

This is addressed to theists, I said this to show that I wasn't afraid to have the belief that there is no God. I'm not sure if you are afraid, or if you are just confusing terminology. But, I definitely see the insecurity of atheists. Some feel it is so important for people to know that they lack belief in God, instead of that they have the belief that there is no God.

 

[jayleew]

Good for you. So what? Atheists other than you don't believe like you do.

Scream and shout all you like, they still don't believe like you do and frankly its because they are smarter than you are.

There is a wide spectrum of atheism, so what?

Who is they? Atheists? I am one of them, but I really don't give a shit if I am or not. And I don't care who is smarter than me, that's probably half the world's population. But what hell does that mean? Knowledge can be dangerous in the wrong hands. A person with superior knowledge is still able to use rhetoric and logical fallacies.

How much you know doesn't mean shit, it is what you know that is important and what you do with what you know.

Get off your high horses atheists, that's all I'm saying.

 

[codanblad]

Then WHY don't you accept the sensible definition & stop bickering???

cos you say things like "Saying it doesn't make it true. dictionary.com doesn't make it true." and i have to enlighten you as to why that is a weak argument (my earlier reply to this was deleted, hopefully this is polite enough. pretty sure you could have handled me thinking you're an idiot though)

 

[swarm]

I really don't give a shit if I am or not. And I don't care who is smarter than me

There you go then. Just stop trying to impose your inferior definition of atheism on others then and you'll be good to go.

 

[codanblad]

I know what it says [dictionary.com]. It's WRONG.

SOME atheists have a position, some don't. Some atheists are heterosexual, some aren't. Some atheists are omnivores, some aren't.
Being an atheist does not require a position or a belief.
Theism is BELIEVING in god(s). A+THEISM is NOT BELIEVING in god(s).
NOT BELIEVING does not carry a burden of proof.

hahaha! yeah the dictionaries are all wrong and you're right.

Atheism is the belief there is no god. agnosticism is lack of belief, or the belief certain things cannot be known. just because you've spent your life using a muddled definition doesn't mean you can't revise it. deal with it.

Good for you. So what? Atheists other than you don't believe like you do.

Scream and shout all you like, they still don't believe like you do and frankly its because they are smarter than you are.

*separate post*There you go then. Just stop trying to impose your inferior definition of atheism on others then and you'll be good to go.

if 'atheists' other than him believe something different, guess what? they're not atheists. they can call themself atheists, but unless they believe there is no god, they're not atheists.

he's using dictionary definition. there isn't a problem with his definition. you and stranger just have this idea of what atheism is and you're apparently incapable of changing it. find a dictionary which supports your argument if you want some credibility.

 

[jayleew]

There you go then. Just stop trying to impose your inferior definition of atheism on others then and you'll be good to go.

Look, often times an english word that as an "a" prefix means the opposite of the suffix. In this case "A" = anti "thesim" = belief in God. This is called passive negation. This fits nice in a little box and aids atheists so they don't have to provide evidence for their belief. Unfortunately for stranger and swarm, atheism is not constructed, it is a translation of a noun. Atheists and theists, by definition of the words, are on the same ocean, that's my argument. But, i'm willing to sail on the Titanic of evidence, rather than drown as the theists are with a lack of any empirical evidence. Yes, atheists have to prove there is no God, but don't be afraid to argue it, it is as easy as saying, "Come with me to the ends of the Earth and I will show you there is no God that can be visually established." As I said before, this argument is just the ramp onto the Titanic of evidence.

Don't stoop to the theists level, atheists, and hide behind a weak argument that gives you immunity. Proudly show the evidence that there is no god. If you don't then you are agnostic and unknowingly discredit all the evidence there is that there is no god.


While atheists will assert their identity however they wish, their analysis of the construction of the word "atheism" as being simply a passive "without god-belief" is linguistically invalid. True, the sense of passive negation is, indeed, one which the particle "a" can convey; however, that particular sense is foreign to the grammar and historical usage of the noun atheos.

http://www.errantskeptics.org/The_Meaning_of_Atheism.htm

 

[The Breaker]

I, and many other, atheists are agnostics in a sense. I don't know for sure and I don't claim to know for sure. There is no evidence, so I don't believe in god in the same sense that I don't believe in imaginary friends that some people claim exist.

 

[swarm]

Look, ...

You are trying to be smart again. Just give it up. Your made up etymology isn't impressive. Your "argument" is neither valid nor persuasive. You fail to understand even the basic issues involved.

I'm glad you think you can prove there is no "god" even though you don't know what a "god" is. I'll try to help you here. Since this is an existential question, you can just say "there aren't any gods here, therefor there aren't any gods." Also since "god" is undefined you can't show god is categorically impossible.

All you can do is say, ok theists, if you wish for me to accept your posit you need to provide evidence to establish its validity or I will categorically deny your assertion. Because the onus is on the person making the assertion to establish their claim. Theists have to posit a god. Athiests couldn't give a shit about gods.

If I say Qweg exists are you going to try and prove Qweg doesn't exist? How? Why would you even bother? Anything you try I can just dismiss as your lack of understanding or I can shift my definition. The god of the gaps is infinitely elusive. Done with Qweg? Now try Gewq.

 

[kerux]

God cares about you? Who are you?

I've been thinking lately that Christianity is very self centred and self involved. Thinking that God actually cares about you. It's God! It really isn't that much of a stretch of the imagination to think that God doesn't actually care what we do or go through. He doesn't need us, half the time in the Bible He is killing humans. To think that He is constantly there to hear every little thing you have to say to Him in prayer is really self indulgent. And then to say that God cares about you so much that He would kill His only son for you. And to think that God wants nothing more than to spend eternity hanging out with you. It's like Christianity has made God out to be some little pet dog. Just say the word and God will do a trick. God is waiting on your beck and call, any spare time you have to spend some time with God would be appreciated in prayer or on Sunday...if you have nothing better to do. And then they portray God as some dog that will wag His tale and get unbelievably happy just to see you one day in Heaven.

Other peoples thoughts?

God only care those who cares about Him. If you don't want Him, why would He want you? If you don't need a thing, you will only throw it especially if that thing is irrecyclable. We need God;He doesn't need us. Men always deviate from God's plan inasmuch as selfish men always want His Creator to follow his own desires which is undirected. Remember if you are an actor or actress you need to follow the script.

 

[swarm]

God only care those who cares about Him.

What a jerk.

if you are an actor or actress you need to follow the script.

Never heard of improv?

 

[(Q)]

We need God;He doesn't need us. Men always deviate from God's plan ...

Gods plan wouldn't be a plan without us, so he does need us, far more than we need him.

 

[lightgigantic]

Gods plan wouldn't be a plan without us, so he does need us, far more than we need him.

Its not clear how the recipients of a plan have an independent stake beyond the initiator of a plan.

If the civil planners for accommodating the needs of the homeless have greater needs than the homeless, you certainly must live in a whacky part of the world

 

[kerux]

what jerk?

What a jerk.



Never heard of improv?

What jerk and what improv? To those godless, there is no god, even the host of biblical words, none of the Bible's stories will appear to their nonsense thoughts. Imagine, they imagine that the Bible beginning from the pentateuch of Moses down to Apocalypse of John is just fantasy? These no-god fellows must have erased the personages from the Bible. And perhaps they'll make their own version of their so-called "truths" lol. Guess what! Personalism divides their worlds.

 

[ggazoo]

For the trillionth time, atheism is NOT a belief system.

It's definitely a religion.

 

[PieAreSquared]

It's definitely a religion.

you should see my shrine to darwin

 

[lightgigantic]

you should see my shrine to darwin

would you prefer we listen to you eulogize his doctrine?