Sciforums religion survey 2014

[davewhite04]

I mean real evidence, not a story in a book.

I know. The bible isn't taking too seriously by historians and academics, until they find evidence.

it seems like as soon as someone here says they believe in the Bible, they get attacked, and I don't think that's always appropriate.

I expect it mate, I just wish the bashers would read what they're opposed to instead of reading bible hating sites for answers.

 

[davewhite04]

bothered to look at my links and "answer" those.

I did check them out, but as soon as I saw "The Evil Bible" it kinda put me off. Spend more time with the original material.

Another failure to read... go back and look at what was written.

I wanted your thoughts directly from the bible, if you are going to debate the bible in a religious forum, it's handy if you have first hand experience, in fact it's essential unless you just want to continue using other peoples thoughts.

 

[Cris]

I'll quote your whole post as it requires attention. It is one of the best posts I've read. I agree with most of what you say, the rest would result in a pointless debate as you've made your choice and you're a stubborn man, in a good way.

Haha - OK.

See Cris, Jesus didn't come for people like you(I bet you are a nice bloke, and generally don't break the law). He came for the people who were mindless rapists, murderers, even drug dealers.

Nice idea but that isn't Christian doctrine.

John 3:15 - believe in me and you shall have everlasting life.

This is the only way to immortality as taught by Christianity. It is not sufficient to just be good - you will die if you don't believe in Jesus no matter how good you are. But even the worst rapists/murderers who genuinely accept Jesus will become immortal despite their past acts.

This is a cornerstone of Christianity even though many Christians might argue against it. The entire point of Jesus was his sacrifice as a gateway for us to reach heaven. Christianity makes no sense if this critical role of Jesus is omitted. So even if I were the most kindest and the best type of altruist, I would still be destroyed in the lake of fire if I refused to accept Jesus as my savior.

And consider John 3:16 - for God so loved the world that he gave his only son that we would be saved.

That is also a massive part of Christian doctrine. So it doesn't make sense for God to then say, OK but you can forget that and you'll live anyway.

So belief in Jesus is critical and since I believe him to be a myth then I am doomed to die no matter how good I am.

 

[davewhite04]

Haha - OK.



Nice idea but that isn't Christian doctrine.

John 3:15 - believe in me and you shall have everlasting life.

This is the only way to immortality as taught by Christianity. It is not sufficient to just be good - you will die if you don't believe in Jesus no matter how good you are. But even the worst rapists/murderers who genuinely accept Jesus will become immortal despite their past acts....

You'll have to forgive me for quoting the bible...

Luke 5:32
32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

I don't think you're a sinner Cris, even if you are...

Luke 23:34
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

John 20:29
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

For the believers are "blessed", not that unbelievers are damned...

Psalm 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

gods don't die, energy merely changes from one form to another.

 

[Dywyddyr]

I did check them out, but as soon as I saw "The Evil Bible" it kinda put me off. Spend more time with the original material.

Yeah, like I said earlier: it uses direct quotes directly from the Bible.
There's bugger all "evil" about it, it simply quotes and notes how those quotes contrast with the supposed claims.

I wanted your thoughts directly from the bible

What makes you think I'd do anything other simply give those quotes?
Since THEY are what we're talking about.

if you are going to debate the bible in a religious forum, it's handy if you have first hand experience, in fact it's essential unless you just want to continue using other peoples thoughts.

First-hand experience?
What sort of bloody "first-hand experience" do I need to provide quotes?

Since all you've done is avoid actually addressing the hypocrisy of the Bible vis a vis your claims about it I can only assume that you have no intention of doing anything other than make empty and/ or false assertions.
In which case, I'm done.

 

[zgmc]

You'll have to forgive me for quoting the bible...

Luke 5:32
32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

I don't think you're a sinner Cris, even if you are...

Luke 23:34
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

John 20:29
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

For the believers are "blessed", not that unbelievers are damned...

Psalm 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

gods don't die, energy merely changes from one form to another.

Everyone is a sinner, though right? Im pretty sure it says so in that book you like to quote.

 

[davewhite04]

Yeah, like I said earlier: it uses direct quotes directly from the Bible.
There's bugger all "evil" about it, it simply quotes and notes how those quotes contrast with the supposed claims.


What makes you think I'd do anything other simply give those quotes?
Since THEY are what we're talking about.


First-hand experience?
What sort of bloody "first-hand experience" do I need to provide quotes?

Since all you've done is avoid actually addressing the hypocrisy of the Bible vis a vis your claims about it I can only assume that you have no intention of doing anything other than make empty and/ or false assertions.
In which case, I'm done.

Go in peace.

 

[davewhite04]

Everyone is a sinner, though right? Im pretty sure it says so in that book you like to quote.

By todays standard, no, otherwise you'd be in prison or getting your hand chopped off.

 

[Cris]

You'll have to forgive me for quoting the bible...

Kinda expected in a religion forum, if supported and explained.

Luke 5:32

32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

IOW everyone is expected to repent or die otherwise - whether good or bad - in the eyes of God we are all sinners, and hence no one can be truly righteous. Jesus was just being his usual tricky self again.

Luke 23:34

34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Seems unfair that Jesus picked these soldiers to save but everyone else had to ask for forgiveness. No sign that God agreed with his request though.

John 20:29

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Either way belief is the needed requirement.

For the believers are "blessed", not that unbelievers are damned...

Bible doesn't say that.

Psalm 82:6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

gods don't die, energy merely changes from one form to another.

Energy and matter are detectable - there is no sign that gods are either energy or matter - the composition of gods are consistent with things that do not exist.

 

[davewhite04]

Kinda expected in a religion forum, if supported and explained.

but often scoffed @.<<<< it ain't in the dictionary!

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

IOW everyone is expected to repent or die otherwise - whether good or bad - in the eyes of God we are all sinners, and hence no one can be truly righteous. Jesus was just being his usual tricky self again.

i think paul(saul) was nuts, and an idiot.

Seems unfair that Jesus picked these soldiers to save but everyone else had to ask for forgiveness. No sign that God agreed with his request though.

Nope.

Either way belief is the needed requirement.

John 20:27
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. ADDED: It seems to me that you'll need physical evidence, if it was good enough for Thomas then surely it's good enough for you, at least thomas knew what he looked like!

Bible doesn't say that.

What does it say again?

Energy and matter are detectable - there is no sign that gods are either energy or matter - the composition of gods are consistent with things that do not exist.

sub atomic level, what do they know about this dark matter... worth a thread in here or science.

 

[zgmc]

By todays standard, no, otherwise you'd be in prison or getting your hand chopped off.

You dont go to prison for sinning. Youre being ridiculous. What about Original sin?

 

[Cris]

John 20:27

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. ADDED: It seems to me that you'll need physical evidence, if it was good enough for Thomas then surely it's good enough for you, at least thomas knew what he looked like!

What does it say again?

That doesn't show that non believers will be saved. In this case the non believer was shown actual proof - only a complete idiot would deny a proof. No one has shown me any proof so I am still damned.

sub atomic level, what do they know about this dark matter... worth a thread in here or science.

It can never be found - the hypothesis is wrong.

But if gods were ever detected then religion would die, they would become a subject for science to study. Faith would not be needed and without faith religions have no reason to exist.

 

[davewhite04]

In fact, why don't we all do a Jihad against the various disguises of the dictionary.

 

[davewhite04]

That doesn't show that non believers will be saved. In this case the non believer was shown actual proof - only a complete idiot would deny a proof. No one has shown me any proof so I am still damned.

Were all the Righteous Jews believers? I heavily doubt it.

It can never be found - the hypothesis is wrong.

Maybe one day I'll get to proove you wrong on this...not yet.

But if gods were ever detected then religion would die, they would become a subject for science to study. Faith would not be needed and without faith religions have no reason to exist.

Exactly.

 

[James R]

Moderator note:

Discussions of evolution have been split from this thread into a separate thread in Biology & Genetics, here:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/denial-of-evolution-vii-2015.144083/

Please discuss evolution there.

 

[Amazing Moves]

We can't create "life" in a lab full of geniuses, what chance is there for a proven planet like ours?

There maybe as much as 500 million planets in the universe that fall in the "Goldie locks" zone of the stars they orbit. That according to astronomers that work on the Kepler telescope.

 

[Amazing Moves]

Other times, it's been literally conversing with a spirit or god.

Who are these spirits and God that you converse with? What is the conversation like?

 

[Sarkus]

There maybe as much as 500 million planets in the universe that fall in the "Goldie locks" zone of the stars they orbit. That according to astronomers that work on the Kepler telescope.

Hmmm. I think you need to update your information: back in November 2013 there were estimated to be up to 40 billion planets in the Goldilocks zone in our galaxy alone, based on info from Kepler. And our galaxy is just one of hundreds of billions within the universe.
40-billion within our galaxy is likely an upper estimate but there are undoubtedly plenty (billion +), and so a billion billion (or likely much more) within the universe.

 

[davewhite04]

There maybe as much as 500 million planets in the universe that fall in the "Goldie locks" zone of the stars they orbit. That according to astronomers that work on the Kepler telescope.

Yeah, how many could create life? seriously... you can't say because we haven't worked out what created "life" on this planet it's that complex and brilliant.

 

[Hapsburg]

Who are these spirits and God that you converse with? What is the conversation like?

The spirits are typically nature spirits, or the spirit of a particular place or location.
The god I've conversed with, and knew full well who it was, was Hermes. I've spoken with other beings that may have been a deity, but I don't know their names or exactly what they were. But Hermes is a certainty, and it was more than just me talking with him. So it was a case of collective gnosis, rather than just personal.

As far as how the conversations go, well, they're just usually like typical conversations. Asking questions and talking about things. With these spirits, it's often very simple things and not very much talking (a lot of fucking, though, yeesh); they typically seemed to have been rather unaccustomed to the finer points of human motor function and speech.
Hermes, well...he's a trickster god, as is noted much in Greek mythology and religion, so you can expect that he's a bit dodgy about things. He refused to speak, communicated only in hand signals, and made us guess as to who he was before proceeding. Then we just kinda asked questions. Not really general questions, like "what's the nature of universe" or "what's the meaning of life" kinda shit. Instead we asked somewhat personal stuff that a god might have insight into. Like, one of girls there asked if her patron goddess, Nyx, was still "there" or if she was ignoring her. I asked if Cernunnos and other horned deities were the same--since Cernunnos is my tutelary god. Nothing really earth-shaking, but it was my primary experience that solidly put me in the camp of relative certainty about the gods existing. It being a shared experience also helped, since I kinda had peer review of sorts.