Sciforums religion survey 2014

[cluelusshusbund]

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Yeah... an the Noah thang hasnt worked out so good ether.!!!

For a supposedly smart guy... the Lord dont seem very good at thankin thangs thru... ie... a brain-damaged lab-monkey (or even me) coud have put together beter plans for humanity than God.!!!

 

[Cris]

Genesis 6

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Thank Jesus.

This story admits that God made a mistake. Christianity touts God as perfect. Both positions cannot be true. And if he did wipe the slate clean and started again then it looks like he messed up again.

 

[spidergoat]

and the trouble is spreading in the west... what did/do you think the west would or will do?

That's a good question. Try not to lose our minds and principles, I guess. And kill lots of bad people with drones.

 

[Hapsburg]

This story admits that God made a mistake. Christianity touts God as perfect. Both positions cannot be true. And if he did wipe the slate clean and started again then it looks like he messed up again.

What Christianity has to say about it is rather tertiary. The story originates in Jewish mythology, and Judaism doesn't necessarily purport their deity's 'perfection'. Especially in Classical Antiquity, it rather sided with a theology that purported a multifaceted deity that was equally capable of anger and spite as it was of mercy and benediction. Like most gods from Classical-era Eurasian religions, the behaviour of the divine was rather contractual and situational. You can't ignore the story's original cultural and literary context.

 

[Cris]

What Christianity has to say about it is rather tertiary. The story originates in Jewish mythology, and Judaism doesn't necessarily purport their deity's 'perfection'. Especially in Classical Antiquity, it rather sided with a theology that purported a multifaceted deity that was equally capable of anger and spite as it was of mercy and benediction. Like most gods from Classical-era Eurasian religions, the behaviour of the divine was rather contractual and situational. You can't ignore the story's original cultural and literary context.

Hapsburg,

Yes I understand. It is rather easy though to take such myths as A&E and Noah and highlight the rampant incongruities, especially if the proponent touts them as if they were not myths.

In the history of gods, most of the old gods, Zeus etc, Roman, Greek, pagan, etc, all had their particular personalities, from jealousy, hatred, revenge, pride, etc., so it is not surprising that the creators of the OT texts would copy much of what is expected of gods and their personalities into the OT God. Replaced polytheism with a monotheistic concept but kept much of the emotions the same.

Christianity though tries something new for its god - an attempt to transform the OT god into perfection, all good, can do no wrong, loves everything perspective. The problem then arises from quoting texts from the OT as if they are relevant to the NT perspective - doesn't work very well. Two different gods involved.

 

[davewhite04]

This story admits that God made a mistake. Christianity touts God as perfect. Both positions cannot be true. And if he did wipe the slate clean and started again then it looks like he messed up again.

Cris,

You're talking as if God simply created robots when He created humanity... why? What is your life like? Did you buy your house or did God? Who is responsible for repairs to your house?

Edit:

then it looks like he messed up again.

How about Bush, Blair, the money people, Hitler, the list is endless....?

 

[Cris]

You're talking as if God simply created robots when He created humanity... why? What is your life like? Did you buy your house or did God? Who is responsible for repairs to your house?

If a car manufacturer creates a set of cars according to a specific design and they all fail to operate then clearly the design was flawed.

If a god creates a set of humans and they all fail to operate as he intended then his design is flawed.

If his design intentionally included the ability for humans to be able to choose good or evil then he should not be displeased when his design operates as intended. Why then destroy those who chose evil, since they are only functioning as he designed?

If he wanted everyone to choose good then his omnipotence would allow him to create a free will mechanism where everyone would be able to evaluate the choices more appropriately and choose good each time.

A god with ultimate power can design humans any way he wishes. That he deliberately created some so that he could kill them is simply absurd.

How would you honestly evaluate your god who knowingly created people he knew would be bad so he could kill them later?

 

[davewhite04]

If a car manufacturer creates a set of cars according to a specific design and they all fail to operate then clearly the design was flawed.

If a god creates a set of humans and they all fail to operate as he intended then his design is flawed.

If his design intentionally included the ability for humans to be able to choose good or evil then he should not be displeased when his design operates as intended. Why then destroy those who chose evil, since they are only functioning as he designed?

If he wanted everyone to choose good then his omnipotence would allow him to create a free will mechanism where everyone would be able to evaluate the choices more appropriately and choose good each time.

A god with ultimate power can design humans any way he wishes. That he deliberately created some so that he could kill them is simply absurd.

How would you honestly evaluate your god who knowingly created people he knew would be bad so he could kill them later?

That's why He created the Ten Commandments which aren't a joke, and EVERYONE knows them yet they are violated time and time again. Do you want free will Cris?

 

[Seattle]

Actually, much of the Ten Commandments are a joke.

 

[davewhite04]

Actually, much of the Ten Commandments are a joke.

Have you murdered anyone lately? Is that a joke too?

 

[Seattle]

Have you murdered anyone lately? Is that a joke too?

No. Have you read the 10 Commandments? The first 4 are a joke.

 

[leopold]

Actually, much of the Ten Commandments are a joke.

oh man, you didn't have to say that.
i wouldn't mind it at all if my children learned them, and tried to live by them.
well, most of them anyway.

an interesting question would be, can you get the same effect with a generous dose of shakespeare.

 

[davewhite04]

No. Have you read the 10 Commandments? The first 4 are a joke.

Continue to joke about while the planet goes to shit because people ignore what God has said, and no, not just the biblical God, but the deities of other religions too.

 

[spidergoat]

Continue to joke about while the planet goes to shit because people ignore what God has said, and no, not just the biblical God, but the deities of other religions too.

Actually, the planet is going to shit in part due to religion, specifically Christianity. In a very literal sense, the denial of climate change is driven by the idea that the world was created just for human beings, and therefore oil was placed there for us to burn, therefore it can't possibly do any harm. Christian countries happen to be the among the worst polluters.

 

[spidergoat]

Have you murdered anyone lately? Is that a joke too?

Most societies in history have made murder a crime. It didn't take the 10 commandments to teach us that.

 

[davewhite04]

Most societies in history have made murder a crime.

Who taught them that it was a crime? Is this where you say, evolution says...

It didn't take the 10 commandments to teach us that.

It did for the people that Moses rescued.

 

[Seattle]

Continue to joke about while the planet goes to shit because people ignore what God has said, and no, not just the biblical God, but the deities of other religions too.

The planet isn't going to "shit" because of people ignoring what "God" said.

It's interesting that you feel it's important to follow any of the "gods". Anything but reality.

 

[davewhite04]

Most societies in history have made murder a crime. It didn't take the 10 commandments to teach us that.

After the 10 commandments in stone were written, God did this:

Jeremiah 31:33-34
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I mean, you just know what's right or wrong. If you are an evil twat, then let your head be it.

 

[spidergoat]

Who taught them that it was a crime? Is this where you say, evolution says...

No one had to teach them, it's self evident. And by the way, killing someone for being a witch or disrespecting their parents is also murder.

It did for the people that Moses rescued.

Rescued from what?

 

[spidergoat]

After the 10 commandments in stone were written, God did this:

Jeremiah 31:33-34
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I mean, you just know what's right or wrong. If you are an evil twat, then let your head be it.

That's what I'm saying, we know it's wrong to murder because we are social apes with empathy. No God required. And yes, I do think evolution had a part of that. Even chimps don't kill other chimps for no reason.