Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

[Musika]

And we're back in the sewer.

The thing about offering loaded questions, is that you never really leave it.

If you want to have a discussion, that's fine. But if you just want a canvas to spray your over cooked thoughts on, people will just tend to pass you on.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Alex so you are close .

god always hoped that we would never have knowledge .

So who told you?
Alex

The bible

When the apple was consumed .

 

[Write4U]

The thing about offering loaded questions, is that you never really leave it.

If you want to have a discussion, that's fine. But if you just want a canvas to spray your over cooked thoughts on, people will just tend to pass you on.

Speak for yourself, I always read iceaura's posts with great interest....

 

[Write4U]

When the apple was consumed.
god always hoped that we would never have knowledge

Have you thought that statement through to its fullest implication?

 

[river]

river said: ↑
When the apple was consumed.
god always hoped that we would never have knowledge

Have you thought that statement through to its fullest implication?

Yes

 

[Write4U]

Yes

So you would rather still be a hominid precursor to homo sapiens?

 

[river]

So you would rather still be a hominid precursor to homo sapiens?

What I am is a Human Being .

god , annunaki , enlil , didn't care about us at the time of the flood . And THAT is telling about this so called god . He was trying to wipe out Humanity , purposely . All most did so .

 

[Write4U]

What I am is a Human Being .

You would not be if Adam and Eve had not metaphorically eaten the fruit from the tree of knowledge, which actually describes the evolution of early man, Homo Erectus (bipedal man) into modern man, Homo Sapiens (wise man), through the fusion of chromosome 2, which reduced our chromosome count from 24 pairs to 23 pairs.

Evolution,
Further information: Chimpanzee genome project
All members of Hominidae except Humans, Neanderthals, and Denisovans have 24 pairs of chromosomes. Humans have only 23 pairs of chromosomes. Human chromosome 2 is a result of an end-to-end fusion of two ancestral chromosomes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2

god , annunaki , enlil , didn't care about us at the time of the flood . And THAT is telling about this so called god . He was trying to wipe out Humanity , purposely . All most did so .

Irrelevant.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

There is saying that by testing a few grains, one can understand whether an entire pot of rice is cooked.

I do that so it must be right☺.

In the same way, by discerning a few key elements, one can understand whether one has any actual spiritual knowledge or not.

I have no spiritual knowledge so what am I doing wrong?

I think it is no more than "lets pretend" ... is that not all we deal with when we talk of spirituality.

I realise you have your belief in a God and I get the impression you are a very intelligent person, clearly well educated, extremely good at expression, in fact a person with many wonderful qualities... so I find it difficult to understand why you believe there is a God when all I can see is the belief comes from speculation over two thousand years ago that has no support in reality and just not consistent with critical thinking.

Do you see the flaws but bound to give support because it is part of your culture or its what your friends believe so you must go along?

I could say these superstitions that created a God come from a time when they did not know where the Sun went at night but I think I mentioned that earlier.

I dont know if saying there is no logic to the idea is correct as I have not studied formal logic.

But do you have to study logic to realise that the bible is very much flawed?


However I see it this way.
If there is indeed a God on what grounds could a human believe that that God has any interest in humans given God appears to have left the building.
And the suffering the inexcusable suffering.

Running out free will is a cop out and was invented to head off the observation that God could do so much more.

A sex fiend molested and killed my child why did God not help...oh cause God wants the fiend to have free will but will forgive him if he accepts God..sure but my child is still dead and I cant bear the loss...free will sure what a great way for a God to give humans dignity.

If there was a God could one not expect that things would be made much clearer than having to sort through non specific prophesy and unsupported "relevation".

Could not a God do better?

Well a real God that actually did exist and was not a mere invention would I have no doubt.

I just can not accept that relevation has any merit ...I mean any fool can rattle on but why should we take his rambling seriously.

Think of it this way...say I come on here and say God has spoken to me and has told me that the destiny of the world is in my hands and that I must lead the world to a new understanding of God...Would you not think that I was crazy...maybe you would not...

But trusting the various claims of two thousand years ago is really no different.

It is crazy today and it was crazy two thousand plus years ago.

Then look at the bible which is made up...at least the story of creation is made up and is incorrect...how can you regard any book that has flaws as something that could be considered credible and indeed offerred up as good cosmology or a decent guide to good morality.

If we have a book on cooking rice that says you know the rice is cooked if it is hot but still crunchy, which is clearly incorrect, why would you hold up that book as a good cook book.

So you realise the cook book is wrong on that point which must cause one to regard it as possibly wrong through out...but you still use it and ignore the fact that although hot your rice makes a crunchy sound when you try to chew it...but then it says the best way to cook an animal is to do so whilst it is still alive so as to preserve its nutrition. ..seems cruel but you go on...and page after page you find stuff that is both incorrect and wrong.

Do you throw the book out or treasure it proclaiming the author was a good cook and as stuff is cooked by everyone that is proof that it is a good cook book.

Facts...
The bible on page one has been made up and that is beyong arguement.

The bible contains encouragement to do illegal acts and although there are many examples I point to only one which calls upon a believer to kill anyone working on the day of rest.

The bible endorses many immoral acts but lets look at just one...slavery...and would not any decent person say ownership of another human is wrong.

I am not a scholar and a simple relatively uneducated man but my observations I feel are valid and if not perhaps you with your superior education and presumably higher intellect can explain my observations away.

What other book would be offered as authority if it contained only one single mistake...not one...absolutely not a single one...my thought is no book is worth reading if it is wrong and supportive of immoral and illegal encouragement.

Can you say I am wrong?

I know you like to think simple folk like me dont understand but honestly I think you have become so wrapped up in finer detail that you miss the real issue which is the bible has enough parts either wrong or encouraging illegal or immoral action to be banned.

Yes banned.

Lets say I publish a call to kill folk who mow their lawn on the day of rest would I not be arrested as a terrorist?

If I advocated slavery would decent folk support me? Of course not yet believers offer all sorts of excuses to sidestep the slavery reference..dishonest attempts actually...ask a believer about slavery in the bible...oh the waffle...dishonest waffle.

If I presented a paper on anything claiming an observation that I could not have made (and I point to the fact no witness could be present at creation and yet gives an eye witness account) and further getting it wrong do you think I would get a Noble and praised for supreme wisdom and ability.

No...absolutely not.

So why do you tolerate this double standard and in fact hold up such a book as authority?

I ask how you can reconcile these issues.


Alex

 

[billvon]

Oh he is pissed , but so are those that consider themselves his ancestors .

Oh. His Mom and Dad, in other words? Who would they be? Zeus and Hera? And who is his grandfather? Did his grandparents immigrate from some other universe? I bet they came in as illegals.

 

[Write4U]

Jan and Musika, are you per chance thetans (scientology adherents)? Sure sounds like it...

Xenu as depicted by Panorama

Hubbard taught that thetans brought the material universe into being largely for their own pleasure. The universe has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that thetans agree it exists. Thetans fell from grace when they began to identify with their creation rather than their original state of spiritual purity. Eventually they lost their memory of their true nature, along with the associated spiritual and creative powers. As a result, thetans came to think of themselves as nothing but embodied beings.

Thetans are reborn time and time again in new bodies through a process called "assumption" which is analogous to reincarnation.
Scientology posits a causal relationship between the experiences of earlier incarnations and one's present life, and with each rebirth, the effects of the MEST universe (MEST here stands for matter, energy, space, and time) on the thetan become stronger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Theological_doctrine

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

The bible

When the apple was consumed .

I know that part.

I blame that talking snake....he spoke with a forked tounge.

Still as snakes dont talk these days we will never hear the snakes side of things.
Sometimes I really wonder if the snake really did talk but its in the bible and thats all the proof we need I guess.

What are we to make of the story?
Was the message intended that folk should avoid knowledge.

Well its great to see believers follow that message even today.

Of course we could question why such an approach was woven into the story...I guess those who invented God realised that anyone with half a brain would see through the nonsence if they stopped to think..solution make thinking evil.

Do believers still think knowledge is evil I wonder and thats the reason why they reject science and fancy book learning these days.

Inteligent design as science is ok of course. .thats science you know..they dont claim to know who the designer was...thats the way science works dont you know...would not want to make stuff up would we.

I bet the snake could have told them where the Sun went at night. ..hey so much for the apple giving knowledge as no one knew where the Sun went at night until much later in history.

And I am not suggesting folk back then were stupid as they just did not know...that is reasonable...they had to invent stories to fill in the gaps..what is stupid is in this modern era when we have a large body of knowledge the folk who actually believe turning to the bronze age is a reliable path to knowledge.

I wonder if a survey was taken today asking the question as to where the Sun goes at night would we find the 20% of the population who take the bible as their book of facts would have an answer.

Probably not...there is nothing in the bible about where the Sun goes at night so how could you know.

My bet is many still dont know.

And what is the correct answer anyways?
I guess it does not go anywhere other than continue its orbit in the Milky Way.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Have you thought that statement through to its fullest implication?

Let him eat an apple before answering.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

So, are you still beating your wife?

At what...tennis?
Alex

 

[iceaura]

If you want to have a discussion, that's fine. But if you just want a canvas to spray your over cooked thoughts on, people will just tend to pass you on.

You are signed on to Jan's behavior here as "having a discussion". You said that. So any claim by you to be "fine" with any actual discussion is specious.

There is a penalty for behaving as Jan does, here, and loss of any standing for criticism is part of it. The OP is a falsehood, defended by slander and lies and evasions. You are fine with that - not "discussion", which you have no interest in.

 

[Write4U]

Musika said:
There is saying that by testing a few grains, one can understand whether an entire pot of rice is cooked.

I know that throwing one strand of spaghetti against the wall and it sticks, does tell you the spaghetti is done......

 

[Write4U]

What are we to make of the story?
Was the message intended that folk should avoid knowledge.
Well its great to see believers follow that message even today

They are the blessed ones.

 

[Write4U]

Oh. His Mom and Dad, in other words? Who would they be? Zeus and Hera? And who is his grandfather? Did his grandparents immigrate from some other universe? I bet they came in as illegals.

I believe river referred to An and Ki. The parents of all the gods to follow.

Ki was the earth goddess in Sumerian mythology, chief consort of the sky god An. In some legends, Ki and An were brother and sister, being the offspring of Anshar ("Sky Pivot") and Kishar ("Earth Pivot"), earlier personifications of heaven and earth.

By her consort Anu, Ki gave birth to the Anunnaki, the most prominent of these deities being Enlil, god of the air. According to legends, heaven and earth were once inseparable until Enlil was born; Enlil cleaved heaven and earth in two.
An carried away heaven. Ki, in company with Enlil, took the earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ki_(goddess)

Pretty messy family, if you ask me.

 

[Musika]

You are signed on to Jan's behavior here as "having a discussion". You said that. So any claim by you to be "fine" with any actual discussion is specious.

There is a penalty for behaving as Jan does, here, and loss of any standing for criticism is part of it. The OP is a falsehood, defended by slander and lies and evasions. You are fine with that - not "discussion", which you have no interest in.

You act as if you are immune to such repercussions.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Well I had a look.

There is none.

Obviously, you`re an atheist.
If there is no God, as your worldview demands, then there can be no evidence for God.
This is the consequence of denial, and rejection.

Hold on I have just now figured it out...you dont want to share God with anyone so you are keeping the evidence to yourself...

That statement alone betrays your foolishness, according to the biblical quote.

I think the greatest evidence against the existence of God comes from the fact he does not come forward and correct those made up stories written in the bronze age when folk did not know where the Sun went at night...probably not because he figures humans will grow out of that annoying childlike superstitious phase...or to come forward after the various horrors we call religious wars and proclaim that it had nothing to do with him...again maybe he just sits back am says if they are that stupid to think their wars are ok by me let the idiots kill each other..I at least hope he is busy designing more cats...I would like a tiger with no sharp claws and is vegetarian.

Maybe you`re an atheist who thinks he has separated his self from God, by pretending, beautifully, to the point of acceptance, that God does not exist.

Anyways your evidence of God it seems shall remain hidden from me ...

That`s the whole point of being an atheist Alex. The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.
As long as you are atheist, there is no God, no evidence, no explanation. The evidence is hidden in plain sight, because you want it that way.
But that is just an illusion. You still have values that are fundamental to human life, regardless of professed beliefs, or not. You do not know why you have these values.
Most probably you will buy into the evolution of morals, story, and become satisfied.

The thing that I have noticed from believers is they seek a cause, which is reasonable, they see the universe so there must be a cause and here they bring in God rather than being honest and agreeing that they actually dont know and should not rely on made up camp fire stories from the bronze age when folk did not know where the Sun went at night...on that point do you know what the bible says about where the Sun went at night..there must be something in there...but now they have their cause ...God...and yet they dont ask where did God come from

This is something we could discuss, if and when you awake from your illusion.
But right now, you`re stuck.

They want a cause but never ask who caused God.

That is so funny.

I ask where did God come from...does he really live alone...are humans just a hobby and where does he work...does he work..is his grandfather still alive...who created the place he lives in.

Do you think that a God of the gaps needs a history and a cause or what...where did God come from...I suggest God came from the minds of men sitting around a camp fire wondering where the Sun went.

Why do you think God would need to come from anywhere?

You know God doesn`t ``come from anywhere``, whether or not you believe it. But you still have to play silly games, to help maintain the delusion of ``there is no God``. That`s why it`s regarded as foolish. Every theist can see the foolishness of atheism. But now we can discuss it in a scientific way, as per article. But you refuse, still wanting to play games.

jan.