Scientific Approach to the Jesus question
- Thread starter Cris
- Start date
Woody said:
How truly bizarre.
First Woody claimed :
"Rome was never conquered by the sword, but Jesus blah blah blah..."
I pointed out this was wrong.
Woody claimed AGAIN:
"Rome was never conquered by armies, but Jesus blah blah blah..."
Now, this is just WRONG - and everybody knows it.
So,
I provided some famous examples when Rome WAS conquered by the sword.
Now,
Woody brings up some OTHER examples, as if they somehow prove his point - when in fact the provide MORE examples that he was wrong.
I feel like I am in a Monty Python skit -
Woody doesn't even remember what he is arguing from one post to the next.
Did you think we wouldn't notice you were wrong but failed to admit it?
Iasion
SnakeLord said:
One of the geneologies is for Jesus's mother "Mary" in Luke 3, and the other is for Jesus' stepfather "Joseph" in Mark 1. In Luke, Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli according to traditional jewish geneology conventions which only use males -- not including women directly, but instead using their husband as the "in-law."
I know what comes next. You will argue that they contradict each other. I don't feel like rehashing it over again.
Iasion,
Every kingdom eventually falls. The point I am making is that words many times are more powerful than swords. If those words are false then they fail the test of time.
Jesus said it best:
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Many have tried and many others are still trying, but the words of Jesus keep right on ticking. Who is going to prove him wrong? Don't go against Him because you are going to lose if you do.
I also agree -- history is not science, but it is governed by reasoning, not the physical sciences. Without humans to record and evaluate history there would be no history. History is more like a courtroom than a science laboratory. History majors can make pretty good lawyers by the way.
Every kingdom eventually falls. The point I am making is that words many times are more powerful than swords. If those words are false then they fail the test of time.
Jesus said it best:
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Many have tried and many others are still trying, but the words of Jesus keep right on ticking. Who is going to prove him wrong? Don't go against Him because you are going to lose if you do.
I also agree -- history is not science, but it is governed by reasoning, not the physical sciences. Without humans to record and evaluate history there would be no history. History is more like a courtroom than a science laboratory. History majors can make pretty good lawyers by the way.
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Cris said,
Surely they have names. Can you come up with the names, where they lived, and how they succeeded when all the other liemakers failed in their day? There were others in that day too you know, that tried to make people believe they were god. It didn't work, and their following died after they died.
Next time you look at a history book on early human history, take a look at the copyright. It was probably written within the past 30 years, but the events happened thousands of years ago.
Therefore, using your logic, no history is useful in this discussion because it happened too long ago.
I'm bored with this discussion.
By the way, Here's a look at the history of jerusalem according to the jews. According to the jews, Jesus was indeed crucified:
jerusalem's timeline
So tell me Iasion, are the jews from jerusalem mythmakers about Jesus too?
Here's another quote from the jewish virtual library:
So tell me Iasion, are Moses and Mohammed fictitious people as well? Are the jews just compulsive liars? Should we accept Holocast Denial too?
Here it is again from another Jewish source: Jesus was crucified on April 25th of the year 31 AD.
You Jesus Mythers are really getting the hell beat out of you. It's like the wife says: the Jesus Myth came from ignorant people.
Surely they have names. Can you come up with the names, where they lived, and how they succeeded when all the other liemakers failed in their day? There were others in that day too you know, that tried to make people believe they were god. It didn't work, and their following died after they died.
Cris said:
Next time you look at a history book on early human history, take a look at the copyright. It was probably written within the past 30 years, but the events happened thousands of years ago.
Therefore, using your logic, no history is useful in this discussion because it happened too long ago.
I'm bored with this discussion.
By the way, Here's a look at the history of jerusalem according to the jews. According to the jews, Jesus was indeed crucified:
jerusalem's timeline
So tell me Iasion, are the jews from jerusalem mythmakers about Jesus too?
Here's another quote from the jewish virtual library:
So tell me Iasion, are Moses and Mohammed fictitious people as well? Are the jews just compulsive liars? Should we accept Holocast Denial too?
Here it is again from another Jewish source: Jesus was crucified on April 25th of the year 31 AD.
You Jesus Mythers are really getting the hell beat out of you. It's like the wife says: the Jesus Myth came from ignorant people.
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When Khrushchev beat his shoe on the desk at the U.N. in 1955, and said
those famous words to the U.S.; "WE WILL BURY YOU"....
There was something else mentioned to happen in those days.
And that Kingdom in the days of those kings, the God of heaven cut a stone out of the mountain without hands, that smote this image in the feet and broke all the Gentile kingdoms down.
If you fall upon that Stone you will be broken....
But if the Stone falls upon you, It will grind you to powder.
And the Kingdom of Christ ruled, and reigned, and covered the earth and the sea and the sky.
The Gentile kingdoms faded away.
those famous words to the U.S.; "WE WILL BURY YOU"....
There was something else mentioned to happen in those days.
And that Kingdom in the days of those kings, the God of heaven cut a stone out of the mountain without hands, that smote this image in the feet and broke all the Gentile kingdoms down.
If you fall upon that Stone you will be broken....
But if the Stone falls upon you, It will grind you to powder.
And the Kingdom of Christ ruled, and reigned, and covered the earth and the sea and the sky.
The Gentile kingdoms faded away.
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Initially, I was going to rant about how stupid you were to believe such things actually happened. And claim that you were a gullible buffoon, who will simply believe anything written by men thousands of years ago..
However, I googled these events and actually found historical documents, pictures, news reports, video footage and an interview with God himself that confirmed all said events occurred precisely as you said.
woody,
We aren't disputing history only the events portrayed by the gospels which until proven can't be considered a reliable record of history. I.e. it is the claims they make for a real jesus that is the question in this thread.
Nonsense, as has already been stated many times, much of history has been independently verified. The issue here is that potentially the most important figure in the history of mankind has not left any evidence behind to show he ever existed. Now that defies logic.
yes it's a great quote, however it has no relevance to the jesus question, as it has never been said of Ghandi, that he was the son of god and could do miracles, etc..one_raven said:
we also have an huge amount of evidence for Ghandi's existence.
I thought this thread was concerning whether or not the man Jesus existed, not whether or not he was divine and the rumors about his miracles and such were accurate.pavlosmarcos said:
Was I mistaken?
In a day and age that we have an overabundance of evidence for the existence of John, the guy who pumps my gas...pavlosmarcos said:
It is an unfair comparison.
What comes up often in this debate (in fact I have brought it up myself in the past) is the we have records of such things as when some wholly insignificant farmer sold his cow to a neighbor.
Unfortunately, we don't have information regarding every insignificant farmer who sold a cow do we?
There is a real dearth of specific accounts and historical data and documents regarding people and life from the time, regardless of how it is painted by detractors.
The documentation is severely limited, and there is a great deal of speculation to fill in the blanks.
Just like the rest of ancient history.
There are countless people from no more than a few hundred years ago that historians and other people can not come to a consensus as to whether or not they ever even existed, nevermind the details of their lives.
Even today, with all our sophisticated communication, record keeping and abundant evidence, it's nearly impossible to discern fact from spin from urban ledgend from flat-out lies day to day.
You can't even believe the news half the time you read it.
no, however to the religious the devination of christ is paramount, there just being a jesus person, would not suffice.one_raven said: