Science vs Religion

TruthSeeker

TruthSeeker

Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey
Valued Senior Member
Science is the study of the illusion.
Religion is the study of the Truth.

Why?

Well, everything is an illusion. The material world the Science studies is just an illusion. Time and space are illusions. The material world is an illusion. There's only energy in the Universe. E=mc2: that's the proof. Mass is just a kind of energy. The Universe is flexible. It's molded by our beliefs. If you have faith in your Heart and believe in something you'll get it. That's how you live in this Universe: creating your own reality.

But Religion is different. In Religion we study the Truth: Love. Love is the Truth. It's beyond this "reality". Love is God. Love is energy in its hightest frequency. Love is The Source. We came from it and we will come back to it.

Love,
Nelson
 
There is not a single statement in the opening post that has any semblance of relevant fact or truth that would support the opening assertions.

This is total BS and not worthy of any attempt at serious comment.
 
I believe there's an invisible dragon called Herbert living in my garage.

Better go feed him, I suppose...
 
Xev,

There's an old story about a philosopher who claimed that matter didn't exist, only mind.
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If only mind exists, then I should be able to know what's in yours now...

Energy is a kind of mass....the equation runs both ways.
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If you realize that matter is energy in a low speed, in a low frequency, you'll get my point... ;)

That dosen't follow from what you have told us so far.....
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That's hard to understand anyways... and I have no proofs yet, so I don't argue about it...

How does Love exist if only energy exists? Is Love energy?
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Somewhat... Love is beyond energy. Energy is just... a shadow of Love... like the illusion a shadow of the Truth.
Living in the shadow of the Almighty... :D

And if love is beyond reality, how can we percieve it?
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Love is beyond what we CALL reality. But Love is the Reality itself. Love is the only actual Truth. The Universe is a kind of imperfect version of the actual Reality.

James R,

That's interesting... mine is called Robert...
... :D

Love,
Nelson
 
Love is one emotion out of many that humans create through chemical and electrical impulses in the brain. I don't see why you associate love with some kind of higher purpose or invisible truth, to do so would suggest that all emotions are "truths".

Now, we are faced with two theories. The entire universe is made up of matter, love is one emotion out of many without any significance when it comes to the universe as a whole, and that no supreme and omnipotent being exists. On the other hand, the entire world around us is an illusion, cast upon us by some kind of omnipotent (yet loving) entity, and the very fabric of space molds itself to each individual's beliefs to seem (to each individual) to be the only true reality.

Occam's Razor? I'm pretty sure it won't be favoring the latter.

Your idea is fine and well, it's a hypothesis and you may believe what you want. However, to tell me that love, an emotion created by chemical interactions and electrical impulses in our brain, is the highest state of energy in the universe and the universe itself is simply an illusion whos sole purpose seems to be to mislead us seems a little outrageous, especially with no proof or substance attached to the claims.
 
Xelios,

I'm not talking about this love you experience... Im' talking about a Highter Love. The True Love.

Other thing... God (the Truth) created the Universe but the Devil (illusion) took it away. It's the whole thing of Adam and Eve...

Love is not just and emotion. Sexual attraction it's what you are probably thinking. I'm talking about Love as God. God is Love. It's written in the Bible. It's an unconditional Love... it's the force that bounds everything together. Harmony, is the projection of the Highter Love in a lower kind. There is Harmony between God and us. But we Love each other. Can you see? Harmony is focused on the interaction while Love, in the Truth itself. Then there is Peace, the second projection of Love. When third person comes. That's the whole thing of Trinity.

God that's Love.
Harmony that's Christ.
Peace that's Holy Spirit.

It's all the same, but focused in different perspectives.

Love,
Nelson
 
So you're simply using Love metaphorically then? Ok, I understand :)

Maybe love is the as yet undiscovered missing piece of the Theory of Everything :D
 
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Science is the study of the illusion.
Religion is the study of the Truth.

TS, I disagree with you, science is the study of the universe/matter, i believe its point is to (eventually) analyticaly find out the source of the material universe and everything therein. Religion is to interact with that source and realise our true identities, and become liberated from material nature. Religion follows on from science.
Science without religion has no real puropse other than entangling us moreso in this material prison. Religion without science is just mere sentiment, it has no real value.

Love.

Jan Ardena.
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Jan Ardena.

TS, I disagree with you, science is the study of the universe/matter, i believe its point is to (eventually) analyticaly find out the source of the material universe and everything therein.
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And what is this Universe besides illusion?
We can't actually "find" the source because it's not material...
With science, we can find the evidence, but not the Truth itself, because God is not a Material being, He is a Spiritual being.

Science and Religion look to the same thing, but with a different perspective. Science look much more outside ourselves. Religion looks inside. Outside we get confused with the pluralility of the Material Universe. Inside we get to our Essence, our Spirit, the Truth.

Science without religion has no real puropse other than entangling us moreso in this material prison. Religion without science is just mere sentiment, it has no real value.
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I agree... that's why I study both...

Like you said... the material Universe is a prison. But we are free! We are God's children! Then, this Universe just happens to be an illusion. You were made to be like Him. You are free from the illusion if you look for the Truth within you (when you look and follow the Word, with and within your Heart), when it interacts with you. For what's God for you if you can't interact with Him? If there's no interaction is completly worthless. That's what Christ means: interaction with God, Love. Christ is the Harmony between the Creator and the Creation. Is the Son of God, and the Son of Man. ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
I say truth is a human concept -- a universal one, and we don't decide what's true, but the concept is still human. The universe on it's own simply is, it's simply a whole, not a true or false value. Considering that, it's not surprising that people define whatever they like best as truth and the rest as illusion. I've always tended to define science as the study of truth and religion as the study of illusion, because to me that which can be known in more detail is much more true than vague ideas of unrealizable gods. My position is just as valid for me as TruthSeeker's is for him, and if you ask the universe to arbitrate it's just going to sit there in dumb silence.

When it comes to religion being better because it's about love... um, sorry, as nice of a concept as love is it's simply an internal state. Love is not energy except perhaps in some sort of poetic metaphorical sense. Love resides within the mind, not floating around the universe as an energy state grabbing people.

About energy, though, since someone mentioned it: energy is the ability to do things, it's not anything in and of itself except in the placeholder sense. The existence of energy shows that interactions exist, but it does not in any way define solid particles doing such interaction. The scientific conception of matter these days is based on logic and logical interactions, much more than on concepts of some sort of solid absolute substance like the greeks thought atoms were. What would an absolute solid unbreakable thing be like, anyway? That'd have to be a god I'd think, or at least have god-like properties, so only the religious could claim solid matter.
 
The ultimate particle IS the Universe... :)
Can't you see?
Nothing = Everything
Once you got this thing, you got that the ultimate particle is the whole Universe. The Universe is just ONE energy (that is an imanation of God... or actually, Himself) that is really flexible...
What do you mostly see in the Universe? Changes. Everything is allways changing. And the changing needs the space-time to exist. And the whole Universe is controlled by equilibrium and Harmony. Interaction between it's parts. Everything all connected... like one wave. Imagine a wave. A wave have millions of particles. But they all have its own right place and change according to the others... The Universe is pretty much like this. It's all about Equilibrium, Harmony and Changes...

When it comes to religion being better because it's about love... um, sorry, as nice of a concept as love is it's simply an internal state. Love is not energy except perhaps in some sort of poetic metaphorical sense. Love resides within the mind, not floating around the universe as an energy state grabbing people.
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Ok... change the name... call it Silence... or God... or Tao... or whatever you want. Like you said... there are different perceptions of reality. I perceive it like Love, because that's what I see most in my Heart, in my Essence. You may perceive it like Silence, for example. I'm not talking about this common love, I'm talking about God Himself, as a loving spiritual being... ;)

Another reason why I call Love. If you read the Bible you'll see that Faith only works when you believe with your Heart. Believe with your Heart means to truly believe (intentionally), to believe with your Essence and to believe with Love and in Love. :)

Love,
Nelson
 
Well, everything is an illusion. The material world the Science studies is just an illusion. Time and space are illusions. The material world is an illusion. There's only energy in the Universe. E=mc2: that's the proof. Mass is just a kind of energy. The Universe is flexible. It's molded by our beliefs. If you have faith in your Heart and believe in something you'll get it. That's how you live in this Universe: creating your own reality.
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Postulate: believe in something you'll get it. I believe that you should not be here if this is the garbage that you consider an argument. Disproof: you are here.

Last time I looked people do not get whatever they want. Example 2: I believe there is no God, you believe the opposite. We cannot both be right. Also if mass was energy why would we need a conversion formula?

Only the insane create their own reality.
But Religion is different. In Religion we study the Truth: Love. Love is the Truth. It's beyond this "reality". Love is God. Love is energy in its hightest frequency. Love is The Source. We came from it and we will come back to it.
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Is there another reality? Love is an abstract concept we use to attain procreation. If you are talking about the specific chemical reaction that activates as a function of survival.
Science is the study of the illusion.
Religion is the study of the Truth.
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It is insulting to use the word study to describe something with no potential to change. These are rudimentary concepts that you need understand before exploding that lack as a thread.

I have never seen that definition used by a non-Christian. What's more I would say that 99% of them would only half agree with you. I know that someone tricked you into believing that what you have spewed is knowledge but remember that knowledge must inexhorably arrive in conjunction with observations and facts.
 
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Jan Ardena.
Like you said... the material Universe is a prison. But we are free! We are God's children! Then, this Universe just happens to be an illusion.

How can you say this universe is just an illusion, when our interaction with it is so real, we feel pain, we feel satisfied after a meal, does this mean the object of pain is not real, but we somehow interpret it as such, or the food we eat is not real.
The universe is real enough, but only temporary, our attachment to the temporary is what is called illusion. It would be silly to spend a lot of time, energy and money on a rented apartment, as you can be ejected at any moment. That is the illusion that we are caught up in, we put all our energies into something that is only here for a short while, we believe that we own these temporary manifestations, such as house, car, family and so on. But the truth is, when we die, we have to leave everything behind, including our bodies.

Love.

Jan Ardena.
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Jan Ardena,

The universe is real enough, but only temporary, our attachment to the temporary is what is called illusion.
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But the truth is, when we die, we have to leave everything behind, including our bodies.
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That's what I said... temporary reality...
Isn't a dream really "real"? Can't you feel in a dream? Yes...
So is our Universe. The only Reality is beyond here...
That's what I said. Our Universe is temporary, but God is forever.

Love,
Nelson
 
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Jan Ardena, That's what I said... temporary reality...
Isn't a dream really "real"? Can't you feel in a dream? Yes...
So is our Universe. The only Reality is beyond here...
That's what I said. Our Universe is temporary, but God is forever.

I see your point.

Appologies for the misunderstanding.

Love.

Jan Ardena.
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*Originally posted by Cris
This is total BS and not worthy of any attempt at serious comment. *

At least you admit that your posts aren't serious comment.

*Originally posted by James R
I believe there's an invisible dragon called Herbert living in my garage.*

You don't believe that; you merely say you do.

*Originally posted by TruthSeeker
That's hard to understand anyways... and I have no proofs yet, so I don't argue about it...*

Don't give up that easily.
It's easy to prove that we create our world by our beliefs.
Even scientists have to believe that the scientific method works before they use it.

*Originally posted by Xelios
On the other hand, the entire world around us is an illusion, cast upon us by some kind of omnipotent (yet loving) entity, and the very fabric of space molds itself to each individual's beliefs to seem (to each individual) to be the only true reality.

Occam's Razor? I'm pretty sure it won't be favoring the latter. *

Yet you would have us believe that you are correct.

*Originally posted by Teg
Postulate: believe in something you'll get it. I believe that you should not be here if this is the garbage that you consider an argument. Disproof: you are here.

Last time I looked people do not get whatever they want.*

Last time you looked, you probably looked at a non-believer.

*Only the insane create their own reality.*

Bill Gates is insane?

*It is insulting to use the word study to describe something with no potential to change.*

The ergot fungus is more widespread than I thought.
Study only applies to that which does not change.
Trying to study that which changes constantly is an exercise in futility.
 
Tony:
At least you admit that your posts aren't serious comment.
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Man, what is it with you and irony?

Don't give up that easily.
It's easy to prove that we create our world by our beliefs.
Even scientists have to believe that the scientific method works before they use it.
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We 'believe' because we know that it works.

Last time you looked, you probably looked at a non-believer.
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Should we always get what we want? Somtimes our wants can be destructive.

Not getting what we want can lead to moral development. That, IMHO, is a good thing.

And if you try somtimes....you get what you need....oh yeah

The ergot fungus is more widespread than I thought.
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You need not describe the contents of your skull to us, Tony.

Study only applies to that which does not change.
Trying to study that which changes constantly is an exercise in futility.
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By that logic, science is an excersize in futility. I am sure you will agree, but you are alive now because of scientific advances, and you are using a computer.....

Your mindless attacks on everyone who disagrees are getting tiring. Why don't you post somthing of substance, and we can debate it?

Nelson:

Another reason why I call Love. If you read the Bible you'll see that Faith only works when you believe with your Heart. Believe with your Heart means to truly believe (intentionally), to believe with your Essence and to believe with Love and in Love.
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Correct. Faith takes an act of will.

Do you remember the exact reference? I think it is in Matthew, but I'm not sure.

That's what I said... temporary reality...
Isn't a dream really "real"? Can't you feel in a dream? Yes...
So is our Universe. The only Reality is beyond here...
That's what I said. Our Universe is temporary, but God is forever.
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You might gain somthing from Descartes. He believed that one could be sure that they existed (I think therefore I am) even if nothing else was real.

From that, he tried to prove the existance of God. He failed, but you might be interested in his attempts.

However, isn't love a form of matter?
 
(This post was meant for another thread. I arrived in this thread accidentally, however, it seems appropriate to the topic so here it is):)


Xev,

***We know 'our' truth is true because, gee whillikers! It agrees with experiment...

Good scientists get rid of said theories. That is how science works.***

If what you call "truth" is fleeting, with theories being discarded and/or replaced with other theories, then the truth that you speak of is synonymous with "verisimilitude" - which is not really the truth, but a quality. It is the quality of "appearing" to be true or real (a theory appears to be true and is accepted as true until the theory is proven to be false or a theory which appears more acceptable to mainstream science comes along).

So, in that sense, the "truth" of science is just an illusion.

"Truth" in the sense that I understand it is synonymous with "reality" - which is a state of being. Contrary to just "appearing" to be true, it is the state of "being" actual or true. Truth encompasses all things that possess actuality, existence or essence. Not just those things which have been subjected to the scientific method.
 
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