Part 2, (apologies for length)
That is a good point. We are servants, period. From the moment we accept responsibilities, we serve. We serve our parents, our friends, our lovers, our employers, our children, our houses, our society, our government, our monarchies, our pets, our country and our senses. Our constitutional position is one of servitude, this we cannot escape, the only Master is God, and He chooses to serve His devotees, because the exchange is one of, pure conditional love. It was only because Jesus prayed to Him, on the cross, why everyone who conspired in his murder, lived. Such is the power of a great devotee of the Lord.
I Agree completely, (aside from Jesus being involved). Servitude=slavery. The problem i can perceive from eating the fruit was that mankind would find out he was a slave. Remember though we do not serve through love, and we do not take slaves through love. Love has no hold over a person. If someone chooses to do something against you, you don't kill them through love, but through lack of serving. To think god serves us goes against his very own words, (or words we are yet to define an owner to). If your whole slave camp are going against you, you drown them all, (as long as you can get more), to teach a lesson. "Try to escape and die." Once that is done people will serve better. You can also confuse them all so they cannot work together and outsmart you, (Tower of Babel). You are at total right to punish them, but then you could never lay claim to loving them.
How hard is it to obey God
How hard would it be to obey hitler? How hard would it be to obey Stalin? How hard would it be to obey Saddam? Notice a distinct pattern emerging? We are slaves..
Thanks to Adam and Eve we attempted to break the bonds of slavery. If love is involved you never need to obey. You can do so by choice but you never get drowned for doing something else.
He asked Adam not to eat from a certain tree, but gave him every other comfort, but he forewent that command and ate from the one tree he was asked not to.
I made a car but for some reason the wheels kept dragging to the left. That's not the cars fault, it's mine as the designer.
God had to put that temptation there, because the decision to obey or not, had to come from Adam.
Ah....free will slavery? But there was no decision. Anyone who decided against got drowned, turned into salt, riddled with disease and so on. After all that they then get an eternity in hell. That my friend is not a decision. As i've also mentioned Adam/Eve would have had no knowledge of whether the serpent or god was telling the truth. As for temptation.. Look at my car analogy.
God knows that it is in mans nature to disobey Him, and knew that Adam would disobey Him, but He still had to give him every chance, because he has a small amount of independence, and had to have the right to use it.
Well it isn't 'independance' if god knows the outcome beforehand. Again that is a design flaw. As for 'having the right'. There was no right. It's not like god said: "Well you've used your free will and independance who can hold it against you?"
Instead they all got cursed.
Seriously not good progeny, is when the mother and father of a child or children is completely devoid of God-consciousness.
So it's serious to go against god? That is slavery. Remember we're talking about the anihiliation of every living thing, (save the ark passengers). This makes the independance speech null and void. We have no freedom of choice or independance. We are merely slaves to gods system. So it's dying under slavery and maybe getting a reward later, (as promised but slave masters are not usually trustworthy), or living a life free and dying, (then we can argue burning in hell or not etc). Personally, as a human, i would prefer to be free than to be a slave.
One cannot show freewill, freewill is constitutional, it is a part of your make up, like your hair or skin. Mankind is punished because of the choices he makes. As I have said, there are rules and regulations and if you violate them, then you have to accept the same violations are going to come upon you, this is natural. In all societies, there are systems which punish unlawful acts, this has to be, otherwise there would be complete havoc. We make our bed, we must lie in it.
Slavery. We have no free will, we have no independance- It's a do or die situation. Now we can see why the term 'fear of god' is used a lot. Where's this love you claim? Love does not make demands, love does not give do or die ultimatums.
it says, all of mankind had evil intent. Maybe you don’t understand what evil intent means.
Tell me what it means to you and i'll tell you what it means to me. As far as analysis goes i would say 'evil intent' signifies mankind going against his captor. I would do the same if i was caught by Saddam. Hell yes it might kill me, but better that than serve him.
Lets say an evil person, committed the most heinous, murderous and brutal crimes and it was proven beyond doubt, that he was the perpetrator of these acts, which numbered in tens or more. Lets say this person got a lot of pleasure from inflicting his will on others, and watching the fear and suffering of others, and was not in the least remorseful. And his crimes were against babies and children, to give it a personal dimension.
Sounds exactly like the being we are talking about.
Would you honestly mind if this person was sentenced to a death penalty by the authorities? Or do you think he should be allowed to do as he likes, as it is his choice?
You answer that..
Now, bear in mind, that he did this out of his own freewill.
Now imagine every single person on the face of the planet with that frame of mind.
There will always be bad people, for we were made in the image of god.
What is the difference between work and service? In this world we have to work, there is no getting away from it. There is not one person who can survive without some kind of work or service, otherwise how would they eat, where would they live, how would the defend themselves. Even the president of the US of A, the most powerful nation in the land, has to work and serve. We are servants, make no bones about it.
We love, according to our consciousness, but love is always there, because we are, in our natural form, spirit and therefore spiritual, which is love.
Work and service have no bearing on love. We work and serve because we have no other choice, as you said, but the same does not apply to love.
No, she knew that she wasn’t supposed to eat the fruit, that is why she had to be convinced, but why did she go against God’s Will, this is the question.
Because she wanted to. If there was love, it wouldn't have been so bad- if it was slavery the outcome would be eternal damnation.
You wouldn’t teach advanced level mathematics, to infants, because their consciousness is not yet developed to the level where they can comprehend it, but it doesn’t mean that, in time, they wont be able to grasp it. You can only teach people what their consciousness can understand. But the truth remains as one, in every scripture, just as mathematics is one.
Ok, then i hope you study Sumerian.
If they mean, aliens, alien to man, then that is correct, from theirs, or any religious or spiritual point of view.
No, they mean mortal space travellers. Nothing to suggest that isn't correct, nothing to say your god is.
Her intention was to become God, she was envious of God Greatness, and as a result, chatted foolishness upon the birth of her firstborn. This is the position of “some” ungodly men, they want to kill God, by becoming God.
And they succeeded:
"Man has become like one of us..."
I do agree with you. I think the god/s are as fragile as we and are also physical being/s. They showed true panic when man tried to build into the heavens, knowing eventually we would become greater then they are. If they weren't so worried about
man reaching the 'heavens', (cosmos), they would be god/s, not something of a lower nature. God would not need to worry.
Jealousy is an integral part of ignorance, there is no justification for it, within the realm of proper intelligence. God knew Abel’s intent, because God knew his nature.
Jealousy is a part of our genetic code. Intelligence, ignorance- neither of these have bearing on jealousy. Once again it's a fault of the mechanic, not the car.
Cain had committed an awful crime, which I’m sure you would agree, is punishable. It would be better to suffer the remainder of ones life, with the guilt, and die having atoned your actions, than to go to hell and suffer, in full awareness, as that would be the universal, natural punishment, for murdering ones younger brother, through an act of violent jealousy.
I think he got off rather lightely.
Ok, if we 'assume' there is a heaven or hell then he 'got off lightly'. If there isn't he got killed plain and simple. Eye for an eye is also fine i guess and Cain certainly did go overboard with his actions but either way god still started the problem. Yes, over a fruit.
Nature is like a machine, it just keeps going, round and round, this has happened, innumerable times in the past, it’s happening now, and it will keep on happening. As long as there are conditioned souls, there has to be material nature.
The law of nature is such, that everything and everyone, becomes anihilated, in some form or other. If you study spirituality, on a deeper level, you will understand it teaches that the soul and body are different, the body comes into being and eventually dies, whereas the soul does not come into being, and does not die, it is spirit and therefore eternal.
That's assuming we do have a spirit, and assuming it does anything other than die when we die. Things like this we can only take at face value. Would you believe you were going to be set free if saddam said so? Could anyone fault you for having your doubts?
