Saying You Fool will take you to hell according to the Bible !!

[Proud_Muslim]

How can Christians know for sure they are saved when Jesus himself
made statements declaring they are headed for Hell ?

For Example :

" But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire . " Matthew 5:22

Surely most of christians have said bad words now and then , therefore according to Jesus , most of them will go to Hell and are not Free from punishment according to Jesus .

Allah (which means - God - in the Semitic Arabic language) gives us many clear signs in the Holy Quran to assure us we will be saved , Allah clarifies the Favors bestowed upon us and in return Allah only asks you believe in the Day of Judgement , in those Allah sent to us (including Jesus) and follow the teachings of the Quran .

" Those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and establish regular prayers and regular charity, will have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . " {The Holy Quran 2:277}

http://www.jesus-or-allah.com

 

[path]

PM islam is SO DISHONEST when quoting the bible they just pick what they want OUT of context (something muslims accuse detractors of the koran of doing). If you read the entire passage you see Matthew is admonishing people for being angry with others and telling them that you cannot pay homage to the lord with an angry heart

Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 5:22but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire. 5:23If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee, 5:24leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 5:25Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 5:26Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing

You are being mislead by your brothers PM

 

[Proud_Muslim]

PM islam is SO DISHONEST when quoting the bible they just pick what they want OUT of context

Oh yeah, every time I post something from the Bible, christians jump and shout ! out of context !! what I posted is the CONTEXT itself.

If you read the entire passage you see Matthew is admonishing people for being angry with others and telling them that you cannot pay homage to the lord with an angry heart

This is not the point, the point is this: if you say YOU FOOL, you will go to hell, this is the point of the passage, will you please comment on it ?

You are being mislead by your brothers PM

What I posted have nothing to do with my 'brothers', it is to do with you illogical bible !!

 

[path]

Most muslims cannot grasp the bible because they are accustomed to the verbatim "koran tells me exactly what to do" interpretation of holy texts. eg. "don't take friends from the non-believers, wash yourself in such and such a way after you do this or that, pray 5 times aday facing this direction. etc etc. The bibles stories are parables, stories written to help you live a better life they are NOT literal they are SYMBOLIC. What you posted is NOT the context it is a snippet from the bigger picture a sound bite. Read the entire passage it is saying you cannot love the Lord if you don't love EVERYONE ELSE. Certainly that is not too academic for you to understand, or is it.

Stop the yelling PM I am not trying to convert you to christianity so relax and cut the bullshit

 

[okinrus]

Yes, PM, anyone who sins and is not forgiven is liable for hell. Isn't this Islamic belief? Namely, if you sin and remain unforgiven forever, you're in hell?

 

[Tiassa]

I went out and grabbed a study guide:

E.) Jesus interprets the law in its truth

1. In this section, Jesus will show the true meaning of the law; but this isn't Jesus against Moses; it is Jesus against false and superficial interpretations of Moses

(a.) In regard to the law, the two errors ofthe scribes and Pharisees were that the both restricted (as in the law of murder) and extended (as in the law of divorce) the commands of God past His intention

(b.) The people Jesus was speaking to only knewof the Bible what these scribes had told them; they didn't (couldn't) read it for themselves - may that never be the case with any of us!

2. (21-22) Jesus interprets the law against murder

(a.) You have heard it said: these people had not really studied the law of Moses for themselves; all they had was the teaching on the law from the scribes and Pharisees

(b.) Notice the authority Jesus takes: But I say to you; Jesus does not rely on the words of previous scribes or teachers

(c.) Jesus makes it clear that it is not only those who commit the act of murder who are in danger of judgment; those who have a murderous intent in the heart are also in danger of judgment

- i. Jesus exposes the essence of the scribe's heresy: to them, the law was really only a matter of external performance, never the heart

(c.) To call someone Racca is to express contempt for their intelligence; to call them a fool shows contempt for their character

- i. Commentators have translated the idea behind Racca as "nitwit, blockhead, numbskull, bonehead, brainless idiot" (Guzik study guide)

I'm of the opinion that the Matthew 5.22-26 refers to redemption: One cannot make a sacrifice to God (a pleasing oblation?) if the intent is not genuine; the intent cannot be genuine unless the sins are confessed and forgiven and the weight of sin is shed. Can you pretend to be square with the Lord while your sins are still troubling you? Thus: go, reconcile the divisions, heal the wounds, and come before the Lord with a cleansed and lightened heart.

To hold one's brother, one's neighbor in contempt is not to face the Lord with a heart that is cleansed and unburdened.

I find the reference to fires, hell, punishment interesting because there really is only one sin declared unforgiven, and it might be a reasonable discussion in and of itself to connect that to the fires of Matthew 5.22.

 

[path]

Nice post tiassa

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Yes, PM, anyone who sins and is not forgiven is liable for hell. Isn't this Islamic belief? Namely, if you sin and remain unforgiven forever, you're in hell?

We are not talking about SIN in general, we are talking about this specific CONTEXT in the bible in which saying YOU FOOL will lead you to hell !!

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I find the reference to fires, hell, punishment interesting because there really is only one sin declared unforgiven, and it might be a reasonable discussion in and of itself to connect that to the fires of Matthew 5.22.

in this case, the Bible contradicts itself ! dont you think ?

 

[okinrus]

I find the reference to fires, hell, punishment interesting because there really is only one sin declared unforgiven, and it might be a reasonable discussion in and of itself to connect that to the fires of Matthew 5.22.

I think your're in error here. Jesus only said that there was only one sin that could not be forgiven. There is no mention of a universal unforgiveness of sin, although to be in hell one would have to have blasphemed the holy spirit since otherwise they could well get out. But if someone called his brother a fool and obstently never confessed this sin despite being convicted by the holy spirit, the blasphemy would be compounded to his previous sin.

 

[okinrus]

I'm discontented that you've managed to call everyone on this forum a "Christian" when some have not expressed their religious pursuasion. It's not relevant to the discussion, PM.

We are not talking about SIN in general, we are talking about this specific CONTEXT in the bible in which saying YOU FOOL will lead you to hell !!

First, any interpretation would express that "you fool" was sinful, done in mockery not jest. So, as being a sin, it can be duly responsible for sending someone to hell. Someone who does not confess this sin, despite being convicted by the Holy Spirit could indeed be thrown into hell. Second, you misread what the verse said. <em>Liable</em> means "could." Any sin could throw someone into hell.

While it would appear that some sins inevitably are not confessed, they are covered under general confessions, even a charity that is opposite to the sin committed may be seen as a general confession if God chooses to since it combats the prior vice. It's difficult to judge this, because it requires knowing someone's heart.

 

[Tiassa]

Birds, stoned - something like that

in this case, the Bible contradicts itself ! dont you think ?

Not necessarily. Let us turn, however, to our friend Okinrus, who has also put his thoughts in on this:

Jesus only said that there was only one sin that could not be forgiven. There is no mention of a universal unforgiveness of sin, although to be in hell one would have to have blasphemed the holy spirit since otherwise they could well get out.

I don't disagree with the idea that there is only one sin that is not forgiven.

The Unforgivable Sin

"Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" (Mark 3.28-29)

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12.31-32)​

Proud Muslim: Whether or not the Bible contradicts itself in some cases is merely a matter of how superficially or how deeply one wishes to delve. If we look at it syllogistically:

• To speak against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven
• To call one's brother a fool will earn the fire (not be forgiven)
• Therefore, to call one's brother a fool is to speak against the Holy Spirit

A syllogism need not be true in order to be correct. Simply, its outcome must reflect the conditions that go into it.

And whether or not this particular syllogism is true shapes the argument greatly, if not entirely.

How can we construe that calling one's brother a fool is to speak against the Holy Spirit? This is not necessarily something that will be printed in neon letters forty feet high for us to discover on the side of a building in Boise. Rather, it's something we'd be lucky to find if we scoured sermon notes from a hundred years' worth of American preachers.

I'm not even prepared to outline it, per se. It strikes me intuitively, inasmuch as:

• Doing unto the least of His brethren earns the fires (Matthew 25)
• One's brother is among the least of Christ's ("His") brethren
• Therefore to call one's brother a fool is to call Him (Christ) a fool.

And yet we see in the verses documenting the Unforgivable Sin that one can, in fact, speak against Christ himself and still be forgiven. So what is the aspect of the Holy Spirit that is spoken against in calling one's brother a fool?

I haven't the answer, exactly, but I admit that I don't see a whole lot of contradiction on this particular count. That's not to say the contradictions aren't there, but many Christians would disagree with me on that point.

Okinrus

To me it's a matter of how we circumscribe the Unforgivable Sin. What, exactly, constitutes blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

If we are to accept that the Bible is consistent on certain issues--or, as some have it, infallible--it is left to us to reconcile what seems contradictory. To some, yes, there seems to be more than one sin that gets you the hellfires--

• The Unforgivable Sin
• Calling one's brother a fool
• Not doing for the least of His brethren

--though the question must be asked at some point: What if these are all the same sin?

And for me that is the quickest, most direct (ha!) way to wipe away the appearance of contradiction. Whether the assertion is tenable is its own debate.
_____________________

• The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version), see http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/rsv.browse.html

 

[Proud_Muslim]

So after Tiassa excellent post, can I conclude that saying you fool is unforgivable sin which lead to hell fire????

 

[rainbow__princess_4]

Yeah exactly, everything you say or do makes you LIABLE for hell... that's why you're supposed to go to the Church and say sorry and the whole lot is all forgiven and all is merry.

 

[okinrus]

To me it's a matter of how we circumscribe the Unforgivable Sin. What, exactly, constitutes blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

I think, at least, as it was described to me is that it's ignoring, denying, or impeding the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin within ourselves. I'm uncertain, however, if this can be considered one act or a series of repeated actions.

If we are to accept that the Bible is consistent on certain issues--or, as some have it, infallible--it is left to us to reconcile what seems contradictory. To some, yes, there seems to be more than one sin that gets you the hellfires--

Well, what Jesus said here is entirely consistent. Someone who commits any sin is liable for hell until forgiven of it. It need not matter that they must still blasphemy the Holy Spirit, which in this case would be constant hatred of one's brother. Once someone has denied all that God has, there is no return, no improvement.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Yeah exactly, everything you say or do makes you LIABLE for hell... that's why you're supposed to go to the Church and say sorry and the whole lot is all forgiven and all is merry.

But we already established that saying you fool is unforgivable sin!!!

 

[Dreamwalker]

Hey Proud Muslim, you are arguing with Christians, do not expect flawless reasoning, expect illogical faith. By the way, can anyone explain me exactly why calling someone "You Fool" is the cause of going to hell. It really does not become clear to me even when I look at the context.

 

[Tiassa]

can I conclude that saying you fool is unforgivable sin which lead to hell fire???

It's possible.

As I understand it, it's a matter of faith.

Where I run into having a hard time with it is that I don't know whether or not to believe the ancient days were any more say-what-you-mean than the modern era. It would seem necessarily so, but still .... These days brothers call each other fools and worse ... take a look around here. For all the bluster and boast, we're still supposed to believe generally nice things about one another.

(What? Don't say it ... I know, I know.)

At any rate, that's the big mystery. You're just supposed to guess as best you can figure it, and have faith that you're doing it the right way. It's only because money is more important to Americans than God that we don't cut each other apart like the desperate around the world. If you watch closely, follow the money, you'll see the bloodshed. It's a subtle but vicious front line.

 

[munim_786]

out of context or not, what does it matter. if you so "you fool" then you WILL enter hell. dont attack Islam cos this is nothing to do about Islam.

 

[Bachus]

Yeah exactly, everything you say or do makes you LIABLE for hell... that's why you're supposed to go to the Church and say sorry and the whole lot is all forgiven and all is merry.

Yeah catolics reaslly covered themselves with that